Development Cycle Archive
Thread: Publish 6 Feedback: Imperial Crackdown
JierHolln wrote:
AudioOrgana wrote:
What incentive do you have to be a Rebel then?
Why not become Imperial or neutral then?
The logic doesn't follow - why do you choose to be a Rebel? What does it mean? If you are just here to "have fun and relax" there are dozens of options - more options than any other MMO out there, between crafters and entertainers and medical elites.
If you only want to combat, why do it factionally? The factional MOBS are in the minority in SWG.
I want my character to be a Rebel. That's all the incentive (and all the explanation you need/deserve) I need.
The logic absolutely follows. Why does wanting to "have fun and relax" and wanting to play a Rebel character have to be mutually exclusive? They aren't and don't have to be. Stop trying to dictate how others play the game.
If someone wants to engage in a bit of factional combat as well as combat vs. critters, what's it to you? It has ZERO impact on your gameplay so why do you seem so concerned about it?
AudioOrgana wrote:
You make it clear that you want sliced items and rebel status, but what did they mean before this? Not much - everyone had everything sliced because there was no reason not to, and being a Rebel was actually much easier than being an Imperial simply because of the sheer numbers.
Now the benefit of having sliced items (which before only cost the measly few credits a smuggler charges) has an alternate side effect, as does being a Rebel soldier. Instead of being the default, they are now actually choices.
Please explain to me how being a Covert Rebel was any easier than being a Covert Imperial? Now.... well, we both know how things are now.
Uh, everyone had access to sliced items, so I don't know what you're getting at with the second comment. It's not as if Rebels were more easily able to obtain sliced weapons/armor and therefore had some advantage that is now balanced.
AudioOrgana wrote:
That's IF you have contraband on you. And I think in terms of other players getting involved in PvP the chances of an overt player who happens to be in the middle of nowhere where you get scanned is slim.
That would be fine and dandy except.... you're turned Overt. Sure, out in the wilds there's probably little chance of stumbling on an Overt Imperial, but if I want to go Covert again, how do I go about that? Right, I have to head to an NPC city and find a Rebel recruiter and then wait an entire hour to become Overt again. Now my chances of encountering an Overt Imperial go up quite a bit.
AudioOrgana wrote:
The whole issue boils down to this : this is an exciting new gameplay dimension that not only one profession (Smugglers) but players from all sorts of backgrounds can use to add a whole new layer to the SWG experience that will only be more important with the Space Expansion coming. It is changing the rules, slightly - this is true. But it needs to be looked at as an unfinished system, not a new addition. This option is not available right now for players, and in bringing it to the game some people may have to make minor alterations to their game playstyle - but it is a clear choice. You can either be involved, or not - but the people who's experience this was intended to enhance didn't have any choice before.
Seriously, it's not that big of a deal. Be more scared of vehicle warping bugs - they happen a hell of a lot more often.
Audio
The whole issue boils down to that IN YOUR OPINION. I (and judging by the many threads on the topic, many others as well) don't find being FORCED into Overt status "an exciting new gameplay dimension" so don't try to speak for me or anyone else. Likewise, it's YOUR OPINION this isn't a big deal. It is in MY (and many others') opinion.
I'm with Audio on this one. 99.9999999% of this game has no consequence whatsoever for your actions, no matter how suicidal. The penalty for a kamikaze death is pretty much zero. The chance of a scan, not to mention the consequence of a scan, is just about zero. The danger of a high-end planet is pretty much zero for most players because just about anything is either solable or able to be dodged using a swoop(and for those for whom it isn't zero, what are you doing there in the first place?).
The easy thing for you to do if you don't want risk is to forego the reward you're getting from it.
So you want to take some potshots at Stormtroopers occasionally? Great, but you have to declare Rebel and expose yourself to things like scanners and minefields and (mythical) contraband scans- or don't, and remain perfectly safe around these places.
So you want to have a gun that shoots up to 35% faster? Great, go get it sliced, but accept that you might get busted in a (currently nonexistant) contraband scan - or don't get your gear sliced and rest easy knwoing you'll never be busted for contraband.
The same goes for anything else illegal - nice-looking Rebelbackpacks, crates of useful Muon Gold, etc etc. These are all nifty items to own, but they don't come for free - they're banned, and you expose yourself to risk if you want to reap the reward. If anything, the contraband system should be about 100 times tougher so people actually FEAR getting scanned and think twice about carrying contraband without some kind of protection by a Smuggler. And in fact, I think the contraband system should be radically expanded to include high-end resources (like the infamous Lokian Wheat) and other items (holocrons, high-end weaponry, rare components like Janta Blood or Krayt Tissue, etc), so that every profession feels the lure of contraband's benefits but has to face down the dangers of using high-end content.
I think it's a shame that people feel entitled to do everything in this game. People should fear carrying too much contraband. There should be a good number of places that are far too dangerous for soloists or non-comatants, and some items should be far too hot to handle unless you can face the risks associated with them. Patently illegal items like sliced gear or spice are obvious examples, but a tariff system on certain items (especially resourecs) would give life to the black market and spice this game up in a major way. You want high-end crafting content? No sweat - just find somebody to move the goods for you, because it shouldn't be a cakewalk to get them.
Yeah, that's my opinion. I'm arguing for an exciting game with consequences for everyone's actions - genuine interdependenceand player-generated content rather thanthe whitebread chatroom into which this game is rapidly devolving.
electricnomad wrote:
The easy thing for you to do if you don't want risk is to forego the reward you're getting from it.
What "reward" am I getting, pray tell?
electricnomad wrote:
So you want to take some potshots at Stormtroopers occasionally? Great, but you have to declare Rebel and expose yourself to things like scanners and minefields and (mythical) contraband scans- or don't, and remain perfectly safe around these places.
Taking on stormtroopers is a "reward"? Sorry, but... LMAO. Yes, I have to join the Rebellion to do so but that does NOT mean I wish to engage in PvP. I also have issues with Covert Scanners (mainly that they make ZERO ZIP ZILCH NADA sense and are only griefer tools; limit them to Faction Bases and that's it, ditto for minefields).
electricnomad wrote:
So you want to have a gun that shoots up to 35% faster? Great, go get it sliced, but accept that you might get busted in a (currently nonexistant) contraband scan - or don't get your gear sliced and rest easy knwoing you'll never be busted for contraband.
Let me guess, another "reward"? Heh. Considering EVERYONE can get a weapon or piece of armor sliced, this is hardly a "reward."
electricnomad wrote:
The same goes for anything else illegal - nice-looking Rebelbackpacks, crates of useful Muon Gold, etc etc. These are all nifty items to own, but they don't come for free - they're banned, and you expose yourself to risk if you want to reap the reward. If anything, the contraband system should be about 100 times tougher so people actually FEAR getting scanned and think twice about carrying contraband without some kind of protection by a Smuggler. And in fact, I think the contraband system should be radically expanded to include high-end resources (like the infamous Lokian Wheat) and other items (holocrons, high-end weaponry, rare components like Janta Blood or Krayt Tissue, etc), so that every profession feels the lure of contraband's benefits but has to face down the dangers of using high-end content.
Ah, now we come to the crux. You're a smuggler and want some lovin'. Shocker. I can understand you wanting a profession that truly works as it should but there's no need to screw over people to do so.
As for your idea on radically expanding the contraband list, thankfully you have no say so in the matter. That would be THE most ridiculous thing to happen to this game. No, Holocrons were, but it'd be a close second.
electricnomad wrote:
I think it's a shame that people feel entitled to do everything in this game. People should fear carrying too much contraband. There should be a good number of places that are far too dangerous for soloists or non-comatants, and some items should be far too hot to handle unless you can face the risks associated with them. Patently illegal items like sliced gear or spice are obvious examples, but a tariff system on certain items (especially resourecs) would give life to the black market and spice this game up in a major way. You want high-end crafting content? No sweat - just find somebody to move the goods for you, because it shouldn't be a cakewalk to get them.
Yeah and I think it's a shame that people like you feel the need to try and dictate how EVERYONE should play this game. The one thing I agree with you on is that there SHOULD be places that are too dangerous for people to solo in (or non-combatants). Sure, you would be able to enter the area but it'd almost certainly mean death.
electricnomad wrote:
Yeah, that's my opinion. I'm arguing for an exciting game with consequences for everyone's actions - genuine interdependenceand player-generated content rather thanthe whitebread chatroom into which this game is rapidly devolving.
Let's be real here. You're arguing for this because you feel it helps you as a smuggler. Period.
JierHolln wrote:
electricnomad wrote:
The easy thing for you to do if you don't want risk is to forego the reward you're getting from it.
What "reward" am I getting, pray tell?
Some people DO want to kill Stormies. I don't know why some people become Rebels, Neutrals, or Imperials. Just like you said - you want to be a Rebel because you want to be a Rebel. Not exactly shedding a lot of light into that black box, are you?
electricnomad wrote:
So you want to take some potshots at Stormtroopers occasionally? Great, but you have to declare Rebel and expose yourself to things like scanners and minefields and (mythical) contraband scans- or don't, and remain perfectly safe around these places.
Taking on stormtroopers is a "reward"? Sorry, but... LMAO. Yes, I have to join the Rebellion to do so but that does NOT mean I wish to engage in PvP. I also have issues with Covert Scanners (mainly that they make ZERO ZIP ZILCH NADA sense and are only griefer tools; limit them to Faction Bases and that's it, ditto for minefields).
If you have issues with scanners and minefields, it's still your option to stay Neutral and avoid them.
The GCW in this game is the PVP tool, and if you want to stay out, you don't get forced to opt in. In fact, you have to work to opt in, so it's no accident. The Recruiter even tells you the consequences of joining. You get a big warning if you want to go Overt, too. At every step of the way, it's perfectly clear that you are getting into deep water, and you're given a chance to turn back. So if you don't like the system, you can always stay out of it. There is NEVER any forced PVP here.
electricnomad wrote:
So you want to have a gun that shoots up to 35% faster? Great, go get it sliced, but accept that you might get busted in a (currently nonexistant) contraband scan - or don't get your gear sliced and rest easy knwoing you'll never be busted for contraband.
Let me guess, another "reward"? Heh. Considering EVERYONE can get a weapon or piece of armor sliced, this is hardly a "reward."
Just because it was available before doesn't mean that it should have been. If the Devs had restricted sliced gear and spice to Smugglers-only, I could have cared less. At this point, we're basically where the game opened, with everyone capable of getting a superpowerful probot without investing any skillpoints to use it. Bingo, it got changed. Then pets were all the rage, owing to the fact that you could get a few skillbozes to use the strongest pets in the game, effectively giving all reward with no payment to do so. That wasn't as egregious as it currently is with SMugglers, since contraband - slices and spices - have been under amnesty since launch. I think it left a deep psychological scar, a sense of entitlement that will last for a long time in people like you who only want rewards, not complications.
But the fact is, there needs to be a hard crackdown on items which were supposed to be illegal. 95% of people should be positively terrified to enter certain towns with contraband. This stuff can provide great bonuses, but at a price. At least that's how it SHOULD be. And that's what I'm pushing for. I want the sense of entitlement rolled back in a big way. If the Devs could code it so that all gear was suddenly unsliced and not contraband, and then they said unequivocally that it was now Smuggler-only, I wouldn't cry a tear. But I think it would be great if this stuff could be used by non-Smugglers at a serious risk. It would add danger to a game which is seriously lacking in danger.
electricnomad wrote:
The same goes for anything else illegal - nice-looking Rebelbackpacks, crates of useful Muon Gold, etc etc. These are all nifty items to own, but they don't come for free - they're banned, and you expose yourself to risk if you want to reap the reward. If anything, the contraband system should be about 100 times tougher so people actually FEAR getting scanned and think twice about carrying contraband without some kind of protection by a Smuggler. And in fact, I think the contraband system should be radically expanded to include high-end resources (like the infamous Lokian Wheat) and other items (holocrons, high-end weaponry, rare components like Janta Blood or Krayt Tissue, etc), so that every profession feels the lure of contraband's benefits but has to face down the dangers of using high-end content.
Ah, now we come to the crux. You're a smuggler and want some lovin'. Shocker. I can understand you wanting a profession that truly works as it should but there's no need to screw over people to do so.
As for your idea on radically expanding the contraband list, thankfully you have no say so in the matter. That would be THE most ridiculous thing to happen to this game. No, Holocrons were, but it'd be a close second.
It doesn't screw anyone over to not use spice or sliced gear. Plenty of people live without it now. Ask around - not everybody uses sliced stuff. There are certain things you NEED in SWG, but sliced gear and spice are not them. On the flip side, if you want to train in anything but unarmed combat, you NEED weapons from Weaponsmiths. If you take damage, you NEED healing from Entertainers and Medics. If you craft, you NEED someone to supply resources, which means you NEED Scouts and/or Artisans.
But nobody NEEDS what a SMuggler can offer. A Smuggler offers pseudo buffs, not anything essential. SO I say bring on the big crackdown and make these buffs as dangerous as they should be. This isn't ice cream people are buying.
As for expanding the contraband list, you haven't attempted to make a case against that idea, which would foster a player-based black market, reward people who networked, and basically wouldbasically create alarge interactive system of player missions. This game WAS always supposed to be about interdependence, and player missions were always a part of the plan.
electricnomad wrote:
I think it's a shame that people feel entitled to do everything in this game. People should fear carrying too much contraband. There should be a good number of places that are far too dangerous for soloists or non-comatants, and some items should be far too hot to handle unless you can face the risks associated with them. Patently illegal items like sliced gear or spice are obvious examples, but a tariff system on certain items (especially resourecs) would give life to the black market and spice this game up in a major way. You want high-end crafting content? No sweat - just find somebody to move the goods for you, because it shouldn't be a cakewalk to get them.
Yeah and I think it's a shame that people like you feel the need to try and dictate how EVERYONE should play this game. The one thing I agree with you on is that there SHOULD be places that are too dangerous for people to solo in (or non-combatants). Sure, you would be able to enter the area but it'd almost certainly mean death.
That's a grand statement, but you're essentially telling me how I should play my game, so I guess we're even. The difference is that I'm putting out ideas to increase interdependency and you're just saying that interdependence is grief. Nice contribution.
electricnomad wrote:
Yeah, that's my opinion. I'm arguing for an exciting game with consequences for everyone's actions - genuine interdependenceand player-generated content rather thanthe whitebread chatroom into which this game is rapidly devolving.
Let's be real here. You're arguing for this because you feel it helps you as a smuggler. Period.
Wrong, I've argued hard for interdependence and a player-focused game since Beta, and even when it would take away my toys. Things like recerting Stim Bs above Novice Medic, eliminating vendors from people who drop Business skills, making it harder to travel on adventure planets, creating a Miner profession and certing harvesters in that skilltree, etc have all been things that I've wanted regardless of the personal consequences to me.
So yeah, let's be real here - you just don't like the idea of losing a perk which you've had since launch.
electricnomad wrote:
Some people DO want to kill Stormies. I don't know why some people become Rebels, Neutrals, or Imperials. Just like you said - you want to be a Rebel because you want to be a Rebel. Not exactly shedding a lot of light into that black box, are you?
Never claimed to be shedding any sort of light on any situation. The reasons why people become Rebels, Neutrals or Imperialsare irrelevant to this discussion as far as I'm concerned.
electricnomad wrote:
If you have issues with scanners and minefields, it's still your option to stay Neutral and avoid them.
The GCW in this game is the PVP tool, and if you want to stay out, you don't get forced to opt in. In fact, you have to work to opt in, so it's no accident. The Recruiter even tells you the consequences of joining. You get a big warning if you want to go Overt, too. At every step of the way, it's perfectly clear that you are getting into deep water, and you're given a chance to turn back. So if you don't like the system, you can always stay out of it. There is NEVER any forced PVP here.
Ditchthe "it's your option to stay neutral" mantra. I choose to be a Rebel. I choose to be Covert so I don't have to participate in PvP. Period. That's sort of the point of being Covert. I am without a doubt FORCED into Overt status if I'm found with contraband and this is ridiculous, especially considering Neutrals get a slap on the wrist and Overt Rebels get, essentially, no penalty. Do you get it now? Screwing over ONE segment of the game population is UNBALANCED and is what I'm arguing against. I have no problem with a reasonable penalty; this forced-Overt penalty is anything but.
electricnomad wrote:
It doesn't screw anyone over to not use spice or sliced gear. Plenty of people live without it now. Ask around - not everybody uses sliced stuff. There are certain things you NEED in SWG, but sliced gear and spice are not them. On the flip side, if you want to train in anything but unarmed combat, you NEED weapons from Weaponsmiths. If you take damage, you NEED healing from Entertainers and Medics. If you craft, you NEED someone to supply resources, which means you NEED Scouts and/or Artisans.
But nobody NEEDS what a SMuggler can offer. A Smuggler offers pseudo buffs, not anything essential. SO I say bring on the big crackdown and make these buffs as dangerous as they should be. This isn't ice cream people are buying.
As for expanding the contraband list, you haven't attempted to make a case against that idea, which would foster a player-based black market, reward people who networked, and basically wouldbasically create alarge interactive system of player missions. This game WAS always supposed to be about interdependence, and player missions were always a part of the plan.
It doesn't screw anyone over to not use spice or sliced gear? Which game have you been playing because it certainly isn't Star Wars Galaxies. Again, as I said in my previous comment the problem is that ONE segment of the playerbase is being screwed over. Neutrals, Imperials and Overt Rebels can use any contraband they choose and suffer minimal (VERY minimal) consequences while Covert Rebels who do not wish to engage in PvP are being FORCED Overt and then have to deal with finding a recruiter to go back to the way they wish to play the game, Covert. Yeah, real balanced there.
Your second comment... as I said earlier, you want Smugglers to get some lovin'. I don't fault you for that, your class is in bad shape at the moment but please don't try to act as if you have everyone's best interests at heart. Your comments do not support that.
As to the third comment, you haven't offered any proof that your expanded contraband list idea would increase interdependence. Simply saying it will is NOT proof, btw. Player missions... they were scrapped, what's your point? I have no confidence in player missions being a good thing. More than likely it'd just end up being an easy way for exploiters to make money, faction, whatever.
electricnomad wrote:
That's a grand statement, but you're essentially telling me how I should play my game, so I guess we're even. The difference is that I'm putting out ideas to increase interdependency and you're just saying that interdependence is grief. Nice contribution.
Sorry, I am in no way trying to tell you how to play your game. Not even close. Also, please point out where I said that interdependence is grief. Good luck finding that because I never said anything of the sort.
electricnomad wrote:
Wrong, I've argued hard for interdependence and a player-focused game since Beta, and even when it would take away my toys. Things like recerting Stim Bs above Novice Medic, eliminating vendors from people who drop Business skills, making it harder to travel on adventure planets, creating a Miner profession and certing harvesters in that skilltree, etc have all been things that I've wanted regardless of the personal consequences to me.
That's great and all but your comments in this thread have very little to do with interdependence and a player-focused game and more to do with Smugglers need lovin'. Again, I don't fault you for wanting to have your profession improved but cut the samaritan act.
electricnomad wrote:
So yeah, let's be real here - you just don't like the idea of losing a perk which you've had since launch.
No, I don't like the idea of a penalty that affects ONE portion of the community, simple as that. If Overt Rebels, Imperials and Neutrals got an equal penalty, I'd be fine with it.
JierHolln wrote:
electricnomad wrote:
So yeah, let's be real here - you just don't like the idea of losing a perk which you've had since launch.
No, I don't like the idea of a penalty that affects ONE portion of the community, simple as that. If Overt Rebels, Imperials and Neutrals got an equal penalty, I'd be fine with it.
I've always been of the opinion that EVERYBODY should get severe penaltiesif they're caughtcarrying contraband, and that EVERYBODY should be scanned regardless of Factional affiliation.
So assuming the game were like that, now what's your agument? Because that's what I've been pushing for all along - a crackdown on all contraband, with real teeth and real consequences for everyone. No free passes whatsoever, and only bonuses for evading scans if you're a Smuggler. I've never seen this as an Imperial versus Rebel issue, it's always been Smugglers versus non-Smugglers, because Smugglers are supposed to run the underworld and carry contraband, not Imperials. That's what they should be investing skillpoints on attaining, really, and it should be the heart of the profession.
well, tonite I was doing some sampling and craftin in our city when I heard there was a probot by our shuttleport.
So I stopped what I was doing and went over there and started following it around. after a few minutes I finally got scanned, and passed. then I realized, that other that my spice in my driods, all I had on me was a sliced FWG5 
So I went to my spice lab and loaded up on pixie, blue and muon. then I ran back and started following the probot around (which doesnt respond to taunts btw 
hehehe).
So after 15 min or so I blasted it. (I killed it at our shuttleport which is about 15-20m away from city limits). and since the only combat skills I have is smuggler, and no scout skills I got out my mount. I planned to take the ST to our reb outpost and have some of hte NPC's there work em over while I watched while FD.
1 min passed, nothing.
2 min passed,...
TEF is now gone.
10 min passed.
I left after 12 minutes have passed and logged. No sign of the ship with the stormtroopers anywhere. So that leads me to believe 1 of 2 things,...
1) contraband scan is working as intended (aka. its broken)
2) since I killed the probot inside city limits (a reb/neutral PA btw, made up mostly of crafters) the stormtrooperswere to scared to head into a reb crafter city.
Dustin_Asche
electricnomad
and others...
Not enough scanning going on in your opinion? What is it you guys want? Please explain.
If there was scanning going on all the time, Rebels that have been PvEing from the start will suddenly be wide open to PvP correct? So, what you want is alot of easy targets?
Don't give me the "stay neutral" argument, I have been rebel since July 03. If my wife & I were to be scanned as often as some suggest, we would be forced to either resign our faction or quit the game. Does that give you the increased PvP you want?
Rebel & Covert, been that way from almost day one. Take it away & this game turns into another griefer's PvP paradise.
The Crackdown does not need more scanning, it is a bad idea, bad for both PvP & PvE.
I was never scanned by now. I am using sliced weapons and carrying drugs in my inv. I am imperial and dont have a high rank to avoid scanning. So where do i have to go to get scanned?
But thats not the point. The point is that every where i look rebels or neutrals group together and hunt troopers and get easy FPs. Why am i not able to attack those players? I am a proud member of the imperial and if any troops are in danger i would like to help. THAT IS AN MMOPRG.
Switching all that guys to OVERT would fix the main problem of the Crackdown.
_Felagund
Dont really know what you are talking about. Maybe you don't understand the game at all. This is a mmoRPg. You play a role. Got that? So if you want to be a rebel who carrys bunch of spice and uses sliced weapons take the consequences. If you cannot handle it, dont do it!!! TELL THAT YOUR WIFE TOO. THANKS !!!
Would you attack a police officer in the streets, if there are many other people around?
SWG is destroyed by whining of people who dont get the purpose of the game. So to all developers: just /ignore them. Thanks.
AND SWITCH THOSE FP GRINDING FREAKS TO OVERT !!!!
And you can come up with fiction to rationalize the lack of FP too. Look at contemporary Baghdad for an example. Killing "cops" doesn't help their cause. Maybe a lot of the "crackdown" stormtroopers are just local boys, not outsiders? And/or the stormtroopers are both liked and disliked by the general populace - civilians feel safer from thieves, bandits, and thugs, and is the Rebel Alliance doing anything about *them* after they kill all the cops? And we don't see it, but maybe (in a "fiction" sense) innocent bystanders get caught in the crossfire? So it could be that the Alliance commanders would weigh the costs and benefits of killing stormtroopers in urban areas, and decide that it shouldn't be encouraged.
Anyhow, you get the general idea - it could be a decent gameplay fix, and could be supported in the fiction.
I do think an awful lot of people in this thread are arguing from the perspective of the "uber-133t combat monster" player. For an awful lot of players, getting into a fight with a Stormtrooper is nothing to sneeze at, and getting into a fight with 2 or 3 is near-certain death! Personally, I find them a fun challenge level, just about right, enough to make encountering them pretty scary....