Development Cycle Archive
Thread: In-Concept Open Discussion
caious
Thu Jan 29, 2004 9:07 pm
#274
I have some ideas aboutthe current (but useless) language functionality in the SWG skill sets.
It just doesn't amount to anything to use a language other than Basic except to fool newbs. Anyone can learn anything within 5 minutes from anyone else.
Races should have languages that they are apt to understand, and others that they will have difficulty with. For example, the snouted races (Rodians, Bothans) might be more apt to understanding and speaking their prospective languages. Trendoshans and Mon Calamari might have some sort of affinity between languages (dont ask me why... maybe the scales?). Andhumans, Zabrak, and Twi'leks wouldfairly easily be able to learn each other's languages.
This isnt the only change I propose. I think that if I used my Rodian character and asked a Wookie to teach me Shyriiwook, I should (based on my aptitude for learning) get a +1on myShyriiwook comprehension (maybe humans would get a +10). Thereafter, anytime I heard Shyriiwook I should have a chance at learning and understanding it a little better. Before long, I would have a 90-95 in the language and could basically yuck it up with the fuzzballs.
As for teaching, on the other hand, I doubt that a Twi'lek would ever be able to teach mon calamarian or shyriiwook, period. Unless, of course, she had the +100 language comprehension skill.
~C
AceCurby
Thu Jan 29, 2004 10:44 pm
#275
So, how about player hotels and casinos? I know there's gotta be a SWG Vegas idea out there somewhere!
-AceCurby
Mj0llnir
Fri Jan 30, 2004 2:35 am
#276
Here's one I haven't heard in a while. How about more skill points? Or perhaps lowering the cost of skill blocks, especially the novice ones. I think it would be more interesting if people had to hybridize their characters a little further. As it stands, skill points run out way too fast, making things boring once you master a couple of elite professions.
Heimdall Reinhardt
Naritus Galaxy
Burning_Tyger
Fri Jan 30, 2004 2:48 am
#277
I have already posted this in the BH a politician profession forums, but it seems appropriate for this forum too, and I would like as many people to see this and comment as possible. As you can see, I am fairly new to SWG and these forums and I appologise if this is not the appropriate thread for this.
Two friends of mine and I (Sasori, O'laf, and Tygo on Eclipse) were trying to think of ways to improve the game, but we really wanted to put an emphasis on keeping the game balanced. We came up with what we think is a really good idea that would enrich multiple professions, while at the same time keep balance in mind. The idea involves player bounties but would affect other professions other than bounty hunter, and we tried to come up with a rational way they could be worked into the game. This is what we came up with, and we would be really interested in what everyone thinks about it, especially what the official correspondents of the affected professions think.
First of all, the main reason we feel bounties are needed is because as it stands now, the game lacks real negative consequences to action. Right now, if you are killed, you respawn, good as new as long as you have insured your items. There is the 1% degradation of items, but that hardly amounts to much concern, and even that will be removed from PvP soon. Having to insure again does act as a monetary penalty, but the vast majority of people have enough money that they can insure without concern for their financial welfare. If there were real dire consequences to ones actions, it would allow for true roleplaying for those who wish to do so. A player would not lightly anger a large PA or go openly bad-mouthing the opposing faction in their own city, for the potential consequences could be dire. I want to emphasize, without real negative consequences, there can be no real bravery or heroism. How brave is it now if a covert rebel marches into the middle of Bestine and starts talking smack to all of the Imperials. The simple answer is, it's not. Even if they were somehow attacked and killed, they would simply respawn and everything would be fine, no harm done. So from a purely enjoyment point of view, I think it would be difficult to argue that player's being able to place bounties on other players is a bad idea. It would add a whole new type of play into the game, enriching multiple professions, and would add an element of accountability to the game that just isn't there right now. Where I think the arguments will come from is in the potential abuse of bounties, and that is something we really tried to take into account when coming up with this idea. So here it is:
We think bounties should be able to be placed by players, on players. That being said, we don't think you should be able to place a bounty on someone's head at your whim, just because someone thought that your hair choice was bad. Everyone has made someone in the game angry at one point or another, either by accident or intentionally, and it would be really absurd if everyone had multiple bounties on their head. So how do you make it available to players, but also limit it to within reason. Well we came up with several ways, but the primary limit would be cost. It should be VERY expensive to place a bounty on someone. We are thinking at least 150-200K just to list it as a mission, and that is not including the actual reward, which would be paid up-front by the person placing the bounty. Also, not only would you be required to pay the listing fee and the reward up front, but you could also pay more to have more BH's be able to accept it as a mission. So when you list a mission, you would decide how many BH's at a time you want hunting this person. In other words, how many BH's could take the mission before it disappears from the terminal and cannot be accepted as a mission anymore. The higher the number of BH's that can accept the mission, the higher the additional cost in listing the mission.
And not just anyone would be able to list a mission. We propose that the only people allowed to place player bounties are MASTER POLITICIANS. If you think about it, it makes sense. Politicians are pretty useless right now unless you want to start a player city or win the election of an existing one, and most the servers already have all the player cities possible. This gives new usefulness and enjoyability to the politician profession. So if someone has really done something where you want to see them suffer, you better find a Master Politician who will listen to your argument. Most major guilds would seek a master politician to join their guild just for this purpose. And politicians may charge a fee in order to list your mission for you, thus providing new income opportunities for them. It fits in well with the Star Wars theme, if you can envision corrupt officials taking money under the table to press a third party's agenda. It would give politicians new weight and respect. Don't anger a master politician, just as you wouldn't want a powerful politician angry with you in real life.
Here is how we propose that the mechanics would work. BH's would accept player bounty missions from new NPC mission givers called "liaisons"or something of that nature. These liaisons would act as terminals. They would only be able to be placed in cities and in guild halls, by the mayor or the guild master respectively. Then any master politician would be able to place new missions in the terminal provided they pay the appropriate fees. The mission would appear and could be accepted by BH's at any liaison terminal within that city or within the guildhall. The guild or the city would get a percentage of the listing fee, and the rest would be removed from the economy. This is a good thing because I think that money is pouring into the economy through missions and rewards faster than it is being removed through object degradation. Anyone who has taken an economics class will tell you that this is bad news, as inflation will become rampant and prices will skyrocket, which we are already seeing on some of the servers. The old BH mission terminals would still exist, but they would only be used like they are now, to hunt NPC marks.
When a bounty hunter views the various missions at a liaison, he or she will be able to see who they would be hunting, their professions, whether they are overt or not, the reward upon completion, and how many other BH's can accept the mission. All missions will have a time limit, after which the bounty will expire. This will give the person being hunted hope of escape. The time limit will only count down when the person being hunted is online, thus preventing people from logging out until the bounty expires. If the mission has not been completed by the time the bounty expires, the master politician that placed the bounty would be able to recover the reward from the liaison, but the listing fees would be non-refundable. Then of course they would be able to return the unclaimed reward money to whoever gave it to them (or not....be sure you trust your politician, they can be sneaky). This time limit would be listed with the rest of the information about the mission on the mission terminal. This limit could be standardized, or maybe it could be increased by paying more money. Like the rest of this, it is a debatable issue.
When a BH accepts a mission, an email will be sent to the BH and the hunted. A system message will appear on the hunted's screen when a bounty has been placed on their head, as well as each and every time it has been accepted by a BH. After accepting a mission, both the BH and the hunted would be able to attack each other. If the hunted dies while the bounty is in effect, any BH who has accepted the mission will be able to perform a special kind of "loot" on the body that would provide a "proof of death" (Lock of hair, DNA sample, their head, etc.) that they would then take back to the liaison from which the mission was accepted in order to receive their reward. This proof of death will not depend on who actually killed the person. No matter how he or she died, any BH who has accepted a mission to hunt that character would be able to loot for the proof of death. However, only one BH can loot the proof of death, so only one can collect the reward. If the hunted dies, his or her body will have a time limit placed on it allowing the "proof of death" to be looted by the BHs. If no BH can get to the body in time (ex: the mark is killed by Tuskens out in the middle of nowhere), then he will respawn at his last cloning location as normal and the bounty time countdown will continue as normal. This will prevent BH's from reaping the reward from a random death unrelated to him hunting the person. And if the mark is accidentally killed by a Rancor and the BH happens to be close at hand, oh well. At least the BH had done the work needed to get close to his or her prey. That's how it would be in real life too.
So why should a group of people pool all that money to place a bounty on someone's head if the worst that is going to happen is that the person will be killed? After all, they would just respawn and there would be no real consequences. For that reason we propose some kind of substantial, unavoidable consequences to being killed by a BH who has accepted the mission to hunt you as a mark. I suggest either 25-50% degradation on all owned items (not just the items in their possession, harvesters, houses, anything stored in a house, and the like), or a substantial skill penalty. The hunted would lose a random top level skill or two (or three, or four). Yes, this gives bounties some real teeth, but that is the point. Before someone claims that this would be unfair, let me remind you that these bounties would be very expensive to place, so the hunted would have had to do something to genuinely anger a powerful person or a large group of people. So in a way, they would be reaping what they sow. After all, the people who would be coming up with the large sums of money necessary for the bounty would get nothing in return other than justice/revenge. There needs to be a way for players to seriously threaten the well being of one another's characters. This would result in more accountability in the game for one's own actions. Also, think how much more respect someone would earn if they openly oppose a large, powerful opposition, despite the potential consequences of a bounty. Role-playing would be that much more "real" and enjoyable.
This change could have far reaching positive effects for the other professions too. Droid Engineer would benefit indirectly as probe and seeker droids would have greatly increased demand. Also, what if Tailors and Architects could make products that would help those that were "on the lamb" avoid bounty hunters and their probes. We thought of possibly some kind of "disguise" that tailors could make, or a "hideout tent" that architects could make. These items would maybe provide negative modifiers to probe droids attempts at finding them while the items are in use. Or what if Bio-Engineers could make "dummy clones". They would be very expensive, and a person could only use one at a time. The mark could set up a dummy clone in a city or building, and then when the BH's sent out their probes, they would get two locations. Then they would be forced to make an educated guess as to which one was real and which was the decoy. This would make it interesting as bounty hunters could get imaginative in trying to get their mark reveal his or her true location. They could not /tell them, because the hunted would know the name of all the BH's hunting them thanks to the emails. So BH's would have to find "set-up" people to help them, maybe getting someone to pretend they are interested in buying something from the hunted and asking to meet with them. If you have a bounty on your head, you would have to be very careful, and would be paranoid. But that is exactly how it would be in reality too, which is perfect.
Lastly, we also thought that instead of just openly banning people from the game for cheating, why not use the game mechanics of bounties to do the punishing. If you are caught cheating, the devs could have the option of placing a special bounty on the offender that would appear in every liaison terminal in that galaxy. Not only would that person be hunted, but the reward money would come directly from his or her own personal money supply. If he or she doesn't have enough money to make the bounty substantial enough, then the devs would take what the character does have and supplement it. This gives offenders a chance to atone for their transgressions. If they cease their cheating, and can escape their pursuers, then they may continue to play. Of course if they cheat again, maybe a higher bounty is placed on them. Maybe if the cheater is killed by the BH, a more devastating punishment is applied than the standard bounty-kill results. Of course the devs would reserve the right to totally ban someone based on the offense, but this would allow punishment to be dealt, while at the same time providing game play enjoyment to other honest players. I think it would be really fun to know that you are hunting down a cheater.
So those are the ideas that we have come up with. Like I said earlier, we tried to keep balance in mind, and the various aspects of this idea could of course be tweaked. Maybe the listing prices should be even higher. That is why we wanted to post these ideas on the forums. Obviously development time would be an issue, but it could probably be developed and published in stages. We hope that everyone will read them and at least consider them. We would absolutely love it if these ideas somehow made it to the devs for consideration. Comments would be appreciated by anybody, and especially the correspondents the affected professions.
Thanks,
Tygo Noscixximi
Sasori Febu
O'laf Rimi
Eclipse Server.
Tygo Noscixximi
Sasori Febu
O'laf Rimi
Eclipse Server.
ZebStokes
Fri Jan 30, 2004 5:15 am
#278
...Let me say that i DO take the time to read every page of a forum (or at least the past 20) before I post so I have an idea of what has been said a million times before me. That being said... I will STILL repeat some of what was formerly mentioned.
I think just about EVERYONE wants to see Sabbac! I am already addicted to the jubilee wheel, and would also like to see Pazzak (ANOTHER 21 variant found in KOTOR) in Galaxies as well. Holo chess shuld be added, CH "cockfights" would be cool (pet vs. pet in an arena... got the idea from the 1st Galaxies novel), etc. I want to see more "games within the game"! Let's start with Sabbac and Pazzak! I LIKE the idea of player owned hotels!! I want a CASINO!
There is a loud cry for more MUSIC in the game! (Single note control of instruments for MUSICIANS!)
...but none of this is new. (see post pg one)
The idea to WIPE the economy is CRAZY!! (But brilliant!) How about a COMPROMISE where you wipe all but 20% of EVERY players creds... and stil call it a "Galactic TAX to recoup the loss of the Death Star". The economy is out of control.. Holo sales ruined it. (Someone actually wanted to charge me 1 MILLION to build me a friggin' fireplace... an object that has no use other than asthetic.) I think SOME sort of galactic flat tax is necessary to get the economy back on line.
My mantra... as always is content, content, content. (My FIRST email on page ONE of this board... please read)
ok... it's7 am... sleep
Zeb
Kelliannaenwyl
Fri Jan 30, 2004 6:02 am
#279
unfortunately i dissagree with your logic on limiting the use of cl10+ droids to de or faction only thats like saying any one can use a computer but you have to be extra special to use a pc
thats my 2 cents
oh is anyone else getting tired of beta testing the new evercrack engine or is it just me and my running mates?
starwars no this feels like a d&d or rifts game on the computer buffs drugs ? no bacta everyone self heals and surgical droids are a special commodity that never actually do the healing with doc supervision
OH IM HURT let me drink this healing potion so i can kill this ancient dragon (krayt, red doesnt matter) hey doc im feeling a little weak how about a potion of heroism or just a round of health and action buffs instead
everyones seen the list of creatures that are being soloed but souldnt be able to well the buffs and healing potions are the problem when was the last timeRAMBO existed outside the movies if you want to take on difficult prey (see ghost and the darkness) you need team work you you end up in a baca tank nerf docs sure why not they are nothing more then a cleric with a different name grinding crafting so you can be abetter doc no thats what pharmacutical companies dothe pure artisans artisans use 28sp for their 10 xpoints all others its only 15 granted the last 2xpoints are with master and only master WS and AS can make any kind of money at all while DE and ARCH can make money from day one granted most peeps dont want a mouse droid but its not that hard to grind up to either a r5 or a wdg crafting station (i have some knowledge Master ART WS ARCH working on DE for holo)
combat stacking lets see who hasnt heard of the commando tk or fencer/tk/pistoleer combos tk self buffing i guess if your that good a bullet in the head dont hurt as much huh? weapon ranges yeah they are just about perfect for evercrack but a rifle that only shoots 64m in a snipers hands when there are documented instances of snipers hiting at over a quarter mile?? mmmm 64m is closer to max bow shot then max rifle or even carbine you boys need to figure out which universe you are in and get it straight
BLOODFIN come and give your money to TR please
CandiDance
Fri Jan 30, 2004 11:13 am
#280
I notice there is no discussion for Dancer anywhere on this page. Oh, becuase dancers are not a combat profession? Have any of the Devs bothered to go in a Cantina? There's more fights there than seems anywhere else!
There is an intent that dancers go on various missions to where they would end up in a camp and dance for the other players. It would be very nice if we could have some defensive combat skills to survive out in the wild. At the same time if you want to puruse non-combat trees, once you get master dancer and you are working up another skills set, but want to retain master dancer, you get blocked from the combat trees (lack of skill points). That's not bad, but without some combat skills itrestricts your ability to go out and entertian in the camps. It also means if the Jedi quest is all combat skills then only combat types will ever free up their Jedi slot.
Also, it is very difficult to be an Overt faction aligneddancer. Geese, getting shot while dancing what a wonderful concept. It might be a more acceptable concept if some defensive combat skills came with being a dancer. We have a complete tree of skills (special effects) that I nor anybody I have run into can see that it actually does anything except do a visual on screen. Consider dumping those and giving us some survival combat skills.
I apologize if this has already been brought up before.
Grizzly1
Fri Jan 30, 2004 11:43 am
#281
I would like to request that there be a third faction unveiled in SWG. I think that you would add a very interesting aspect to gameplay if you were to add a Pirate faction. Is there any possibility of it ever happening?
It would make the Smuggler profession and the Bounty Hunter profession much more interesting, in my opinion, not to mention that there is a definite criminal element in all the movies and books up to this point. I think you are missing a very dynamic part of the the whole saga by omitting a pirate faction.
DawnTreader777
Fri Jan 30, 2004 11:52 am
#282
Gatgatsugatling wrote:
Lastly I think the termonalogy of the game needs to change. Disruptors are not acid they are an energy weapon that destablizes atoms. They arn't a crosave chemical that desolves a compound. Someone didn't take physics!
ah, yeah.... *scraches head*
uh, guy, that is star TREK terminology. honestly, who really cares what the "correct" terminology is? its not about the terminology, its about differentiating the "effect" of the weapons.
DawnTreader777
Fri Jan 30, 2004 12:13 pm
#283
Durangoo wrote:
SWG is called an Empie Divided, its a war game in short, PVP by its very nature, so why is it that a player can play as long as they wish being neutral ? Seems to me that after character creation there should be a 30 day online time limit, that after the player must choose either Rebel or Imperial Faction, failing to do this the game will select it for the player based on faction numbers ie 50 Rebels 40 Imperials, they become Imperial, note the player can either resign selection the faction they want with a 24 hour time limit online time or again the game selects the faction again on balancing factors. Remeber, one can always be covert, in fact one could play years as covert as such there is no need for being neutral.
uh a few words for you
covert scanner, TEF and the like.
i will remain neutral and keep the option thank you very much! i dont like PvP because of the nature of people, SOE gave us the option so i will use it. what i think they should do. take away all of the covert, overt, and have no duel option. make anyone able to attack anyone. then community becomes a much larger factor. you will rely on your friends to help keep you safe. this game is supposed to be about community and grouping, i havent been in a group since the kryat hunt i was on a month ago, and before that was to finish act 2. that is a 3 to 4 month spread.
and another thing about this idea of no need to be neutral, i dont believe in the imperials position, and i certainly dont want to get caught up in the princesses little war. for me its all about the money, i expect to get well paid...
Thunderheart
Fri Jan 30, 2004 12:21 pm
#284
ZebStokes wrote:
...Let me say that i DO take the time to read every page of a forum (or at least the past 20) before I post so I have an idea of what has been said a million times before me. That being said... I will STILL repeat some of what was formerly mentioned.
I think just about EVERYONE wants to see Sabbac! I am already addicted to the jubilee wheel, and would also like to see Pazzak (ANOTHER 21 variant found in KOTOR) in Galaxies as well.
So do I 
Pazzak is something we're working on, though I dont know when we'll be able to implement it...
Lorell
Fri Jan 30, 2004 12:27 pm
#285
TH - Why were all the posts deleted concerning last night's crash? Q-3P0 had posts in the dev tracker and in the announcement forum. Why delete them?
joxer_LOA
Fri Jan 30, 2004 12:38 pm
#286
What about architect created Casino Wheels and Slots like you have in the Hotels? I think that'd be great for us Cantina owners....