CUEmu - Thread Posts

Kershakk

Tue Mar 16, 2004 5:25 am

Arez_Olympus wrote:

Bah, so we are back at the current stupid system where there is no variation in what is being made?

I really liked the changes, and you giving in to the whiners is just to sad!

But than again, who the hell is going to read this on page 11 (?)

Until we see what the new system is - can't really say if it would be any better in terms of 'variation'. In fact all theory points to less variation. With penalised experimentation there is no point in going half-assed in any line, which means going all out in single line, which will be the line people care about, and so there lies even more cookie cutter items.

As for 'giving into the whiners' - I wonder if you've ever had a complaint that you honestly felt you had legitimate concerns over. Would you constitute aswhining for acting on it? I'm fair to fed up of people labelling everyone who happens to have a counter opinion as a whiner. Grow up, seriously. You're the ones coming off immature and whiney. A lot of us had real concerns, and it mattered to us, but of course seeing as it's counter to yours that's automatically whining. Well done. Belittling other people'sreal concerns is the real whining.

Masen

Tue Mar 16, 2004 5:27 am

#249

The ONLY way this would have worked, is if they had also taken away the massive stockpiles of multiple 1K resources. The huge loads of pre-nerf schematics and crates. Some people have enough materials, all excellent quality, to keep in supply for literally years. All the new and up-and-coming crafters would have been screwed. It would have completely, and utterly crippled the economy for months, maybe even years, as the rich uberguilds and well-established crafters got richer and richer, and the novices and new masters were left selling crap for half what it costs to make. It was a good idea perhaps, at least on paper. But once it had hit the servers, nothing would have changed for a while..and then things would have began to decline, gradually at first, then a landslide as the most wealthy crafters pre-nerf continued to sell the uber items they make now, and others dropped out of crafting altogether, driving prices higher, then as the hoarded materials and schematics ran lower and lower, prices would have spiralled up and up, with no end in sight.

That is why we were againt it. All you for it, if they'd made any schematic made pre-patch ineffective, and made all crates unuseable, or to pull post-nerf stat armors and weapons, would you be so for it? IF they did something like this...MAYBE it would work. But I doubt it. there's enough stuff out of their crates already, enough materials and finished products hoarded, to make this change pure bunk for months at the very least.

If you'd read the threads, you wouldn't see half as many whiners as you saw people who had degrees in economics. Business owners. Educated people speaking against something that was supposed to fix something in game, but would have only made it worse. If they want to fix it, they'll need something that hits the rich HARDER than the average Joe. not the other way around. Because they need to lower high end money and hordes more than the smalltime guys running cheap missions to get enough cash for a buff to even use their armor. The ones who are busting the economy are the super rih players, paying 40 credits per unit, or more, on the best resources. Most follks don't realize, even with maintainance, and power, a harvester costs about .4cpu to run. that's it, that's all.

No I don't have a freakin sig. Just make something up and pretend it's here man. woman. umm...Whatever.

demosthenes810

Tue Mar 16, 2004 5:40 am

#250

Good to see the developers responding to the community. Whether this response was the best or some other is not important...I am heartened to know that there IS a response.

David

Burr

Tue Mar 16, 2004 5:43 am

#251

Good job. Glad you guys are doing the right thing here.

----
Nothing personal..... it's just business...

Hedek

Tue Mar 16, 2004 5:45 am

#252

While in this particular case I'm rather happy the change was withdrawn (due to no ability to char copy on test server and actually know exactly what was going to happen, and due to people being aware of this long enough for them to prepare schematics or even finished products), I am however worried about how this will impact any further change devs will try to make in the future. If you cave every time a change is unpopular how will you make the game evolve (since constant change and improvment is what defines MMORPGs). Sometimes unpopular changes are *needed* to improve a game.

I believe if you had given more precise examples ie. devs generating a master crafter char, generating sample resources with stats he defines himself and publish the results he gets between Live and Test, or, allowing us master crafters to char copy on test server WITH the items we have in our inventory so we can make the exact same items but on 2 different version of the games, the issue would have had been dealt out more smoothly.

I must admit I was on the side of those who were against that change, but without knowing exactly how that change was going to affect me and the weapons I craft (since I'm a weaponsmith). I heard some vague rumors and very general info (great resources give better items than now, average resources give worse items than now) and made some conclusions about it (how this will increase the gap between young crafters and wealthy long-time established crafters).

I'm convinced any further crafting change must be (a) tested for at least 2 weeks by char-copying players on Test server and (b) render any before-the-patch made schematic/crate unusable but convertible back into resources.I understand this is very unrealistic and technically difficult to do, but I also can't see any other way -provided how crafting works in swg- for the change to take in effect immediately (c.f. pre nerf FWG5 and Scatters still for sale) and not make any after patch nerf item unsellable and at the same time not totally frustrating the crafters (they get their resources back).

WulfFeir

Tue Mar 16, 2004 5:48 am

#253

Thank you for listening to us.

Wulf Feir

Holo Hunter

Kanuck2

Tue Mar 16, 2004 6:21 am

#254

A big thanks from me and my doctor partner on sunrunner

-The Bajo Brothers - Kanuck & Ontario-

nowayasif

Tue Mar 16, 2004 6:24 am

#255

I would have like more than a day to see the difference but we must all bow to the wish of the 'majority' even tho there are untold crafters who dont bother posting to the forums.

/agree

I would like to have at least a few days to do some crafting with the change.

I was one of the minority that didn't mind the change at all as a crafter. Too bad, it didn't go through.

(Just like Elood, I opted not to make any schematics or crates of pre patch armors. oh well.)

Pann

Shadowfire Armorsmith

Wisky

Tue Mar 16, 2004 6:24 am

#256

OMG im pitching a tent ....................and im not even a scout

atimes

Tue Mar 16, 2004 6:31 am

#257

While we appreciate your efforts to restore the economy we also even more appreciate your listening to our opinions that this change would not work.

Thank you.

The root problem with the economy IMOis inflation and this change would not have fixed that. You reduced mission payouts twice and prices never went down as a result. This change would not have changed the price on anything. Crafters would have simply done the best they could under the new system and then charged what they are charging now for the items. In other words item quality would have gone down but prices would have not.

This would not have encouraged competition because I feel that there are no monopolies to begin with. With a MMO this size and since crafters are in the minority, demand from the majority combat players will always exceed supply. No one crafter has a lock on any market in any segment of the economy because demand for artisan goods is so high all crafters can sell and sell well. At least this is how it is on Intrepid.

I don't know how to get prices to stabilize (many people on these forums fail to understand that not everyone has 3 million credits in their back pocket) but I personally believe removing holocrons and changing the Jedi system will help. The economy (and the game) got a little out of whack when virtually everyone began the hologrind.

On and for everyone who wanted this change because the game is "too easy". Play without your master doc buffs and 80% composite armor the next time you log on. I think you will find the challenge sufficient at that point.

SpaceGolfer

Tue Mar 16, 2004 6:31 am

#258

This makes me want to puke!

I for one was looking forward to the changes in the crafting system and I am not in an "uber guild" nor am I even a MWS!

My opinion aside, where were all the people that actually wanted this change when the masses were whining? Where was the post that said "Keep the Experimentation Change!"or anything else for the matter?

I admit I'm guilty too for keeping my mouth shut thinking that the Dev's won't cave-in the the whiners so I didn't bother saying anything either but damn! Don't bash the whiners when NOBODY bothered saying anything!

Arguing on the internet is like competing in the special olympics. Even if you win, you're still retarded.

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Mahabret

Tue Mar 16, 2004 6:36 am

#259

Just as a side note - might be a good idea to point "Astromech Stats" at what people ARE buying and for how much, versus what's for sale. It wouldn't be a perfect picture by a long shot, but would at least give you an idea of what the crafters are up against.

As many weapon/armorsmiths have said, the player base doesn't seem to be interested in low-HAM-cost armor/weapons. Take a look at what's selling and what's being offered - I'll bet that you'll see that the single line experimentation is being done because that what the players (our customers) demand.

I look like a squid, but I taste like chicken

Ender007

Tue Mar 16, 2004 6:36 am

#260

Excellent Decision. I never posted in the discussion thread but I can assure you I stand 100% behind those that argueed against the experimentation changes and I'm glad you listened. The dev's just bumped their credibility back up a few places.

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Thread: Crafting Experimentation Changes... resolution.