Development Cycle Archive

What defines theCreature Handler role in combat?

At novice there is very little to distinguish a Creature Handler. We tame "novelty" pets for awhile until we are able to get our first decent tank. Some Creature Handlers value the roleplay of having novelty pets throughout their lifespan while others are solely combat oriented. Until reaching the point where they can command a level 25-30 pet, Creature Handling is mostly a non-event in PvE combat.

By and large our ability at master to command multiple petswho are (or were) proficient tanks was our defining ability. We could do crowd control fantastically well in PvE combat by engaging multiple targets.

In PvP combat, our lack of damage output and the ability of other players to utterly ignore our pets puts Creature Handlers at an extreme disadvantage. The best we can currently hope for is for our pets to get some status effects stacked up on our targets before either the pets or ourselves are eliminated.

What basic combat elements should they possess?

The use of "battle pets" in real life warfare is fairly well established from wild elephants only barely brought under control and then loosed on the field to highly trained dogs meant to sniff out explosives, enemy troops, traps, etc. There is a really wide range of abilities a Creature Handler could have and still remain immersive. Our abilities are really defined by our tameables however. None of our pets can do anything under our control that they can't do in the wild and (should be) vice versa.

Typically pets are not sent in to do battle on their own. Masters/trainers are expected to be on-hand to direct the animal's attention and if necessary to do the "real damage" while the pet acts to flush out or otherwise engage a target of interest. In this regard the current state of the game does in fact reflect real-life, Creature Handlers are *not* effective in combat without some other skills.

What offensive abilities?

Our damage output is meager now, which is not necessarily a problem. The lack of solid defensive capabilities since the rebalancing of creatures has left us lacking both defense *and* offense and this *is* a problem. Our pets should be biting, clawing, poisoning, diseasing and otherwise making life hell for our targets, if in no other capacity,as a sort of animate caltrop.

Offense is not our focus, nor should it be.

What defensive abilities?

Our defensive capability has been changed drastically since the creature rebalance. The advent of Bio-Engineered pets was suggested asa mitigating factor, however it turned out to be a false hope. The Bio-Engineered pets made wild pets utterly obsolete during the course of the holiday break and just as quickly were brought back in line with wild pet stats. This left us with the option of taming our own mediocre pet or buying a mediocre pet.

Our bread and butter pet in PvE combat was primarily the graul mauler, despite all protests. It was simply the best defensive pet available for the PvE combat for which we were so well suited. No player could compete with the defensive capabilities of our pets at the time that the mauler was "discovered" and even advances in armor crafting couldn't shake the advantage of having a tank which didn't take a portion of the loot or leave the group unexpectedly.

Having seen now the "tanking" of armored and stat-buffed players I can safely say the graul mauler could be given back its former glory and still be an inferior substitute.

What unique abilities?

None of our "abilities" per se are really unique. Our abilities all come from our pets. Disease or poison is shared with Combat Medics, stunning, dizzying, knockdown or almost any other form of status or posture change is duplicated in other professions.

Our stand-out ability is the PvE defensive where our multiple pet combos can engage multiple targets at once, keeping them busy while a player group picks them off.

Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?

"Fearless" crowd control. When a pet gets incapped or deathblowed it only requires stims to get them back. No loss of time from cloning, no loss of money from item decay or anything else (save for vitality damage). This means that it's relatively easy to have a pet tank where a player might fear these other factors.

Pets are obedient and barring several well documented bugs, hold their ground in combat until instructed to do otherwise.

How could/should they interact with other professions?

We require items needed for our pets' maintenance. We need pet foot, pet stims, and *good* pets. We go to other crafters for these items fairly regularly.

We require other combat professions to support us. We are not good damage dealers and must either take up a secondary profession ourselves or have a group or partner with combat abilities to complement ours. Any and all of the requirements associated with such practice also become the necessity of the Creature Handler.

What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?

Currently in combat we are for all intents and purposes, PvE only. We require our groups to put down enemies fast enough to keep our pets in good condition. Our best complements are almost any form of elite combat profession. Healing our pets can be done with the help of pet stims and so medics aren't strictly necessary in the current game and if handled properly, the pets will tank and leave the players (nearly) unscathed.

In PvP we have no foil, nor do we need one. Our pets are no stronger against combat professions than their wild counterparts. In PvP combat, creature handling is not an asset to anyone. I'm not sure how to describe our "interaction" or "dependencies" except to say: PvP professions weaker than CH -> Any Non-combat, PvP professions stronger than CH -> Any combat.

What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?

In real life our best detectors of drugs and explosives are still the olfactory systems of our canine companions. This non-combat role would assist greatly in ferreting out spies and informants, and detecting contraband.

At the moment, even with nearly master Carbinner, the only creatures that still mean something are the gurreck, rancor, toxic merrek battlelord and gapping spiders, creaturesof levels 44 to 50.That means a MCH can have a tank that is usefull on PVE, and useless on PVP. Graul Maulers are too dumb, not usefull anymore, and the BE creatures that have good specials also have weekness to most weapon types, or just don't have armour at all.

In combat i don't know any MCH that does'nt have weapons skills, either it's marksman or Carbinners, so the distance is the one recomended for their weapons. The importance of a MCH in a team is extreme, if we consider places like the nightsisters base on Dathomir, and the size of most teams beeing of about 8 to 10, including doc to ress, and entertainer.A rancor can tank a elder nightsister for about 1 mn before he dies, wich allows the team to scratch him a little bit. Of course in the end they will need to be ressed by good doc.

The profession of MCH should be abble to shield the team for some time, so they could shoot some hight level creatures.Teams of 20 are not impossible, but hard to gather all the ppl atone particular time.

Currently the MCH profession is just what was expected after the nerf, with no real usefull creatures of high levels, and nice to see kimoglias that make less damage then a gurreck. I keep this skill because i like my pets, but almost don't use them anymore. And as for PVP, even with nearly master carbinne and one of those creatures out, either i fight a teras kasi, a commando or bounty hunter i get killed, so bye bye pvp.

TH,

On behalf of the CH community, let mejust apologize in advance forsomeof the posts that you are going to read today.

People are frustrated beyond belief with the "attention" we've gotten lately, particularly with the last patch.

The problem is NOT the fact that:

1. CH profession was redesigned.


2. Creatures were "rebalanced".


3. BE's are able to make better pets than we can tame.

The problem with the last patch is that ALL of these things we're done at once - that's alot to balance and get right.

We mistakenly expected the last patch to:

1. focusONLY on reducing the power of "dabbling" in the CH profession.


2. that MCH's would be more or less unaffected.


3. that creatures which were NOT tamable would become the exception, rather than the rule.


4. give CH's nice features like commanding the pet's specials

Now CH's are more frustrated than ever because:

1. Progression has been made very very slow.


2. CH's gain tame levels 2 or 3 at a time, yet lack the abiltiy to determine a creature's level


3. There is NOT a wide array of tamable species, as promised.


4. The specials and ranged attacks not work, as promised.

And the most frustrating thing of all is that the message we hear from the devs is "We're done messing with your profession now."

So please understand if there are sarcastic and jaded responses to this thread.

I'm sure MOST people will try to be constructive.

Thanks,

Caveman

p.s. In regards to the camping thing, there's a lot of confusion about what you meant by "we've added a 30 second delay before you pull something out"

What defines the Creature Handler role in combat?

This is an easy one – tanking.

Let’s be real – a PC hitting a rancor in the toe is not a very “believable” tank.

It makes more sense to let 10k ham pets tank 10k ham mobs than to expect a human to stand toe-to-toe with a rancor and “dodge” all it’s attacks.

What offensive abilities?

Offense for a CH comes from getting other professions.

It’s impossible to master CM, Commando, or BH with CH...

So, "offense" is limited (by skillpoints) to one of the straight ranged or melee professions.

As a CH alone, the “offense” which comes from the pets is not significant compared to other professions, but that’s ok because CH should be defined as a defensive (tanks) oriented profession when it comes to combat.

What defines theCreature Handler role in combat?

I can tell you what it use to be defined as.. which was the "tank" controller. But now that has been changed to more of a cutemule trainer, the use of pets in combat is relatively limited.. especially when TK artists are now the real tank/spanker. Pets don't have the armor and protection they once had, so now their role in combat (as a master ch) is moot... there is no role. Well, i take that back, ... i now use my pets to retrieve "stuck" Tuskens that are not attackable in the walls at the Tusken Fort... but as soon as they are pulled from that position, the TK artists cream them. So, basically I have no clue what I'm defined as now in combat other than an open sore to many other players.

What basic combat elements should they possess?

I am guessing that this is in reference to the handler and not the creatures. Creature handlers should be able to "summon" creatures to do their bidding at will. Period. The more of a master the creature handler is.. the better at controlling, the more they control, the more powerful their "trained" attacks are...

CLUE... "TRAINED ATTACKS"... we as various levels of a CH should be able to TRAIN special attacks to use against our enemies. Take a police dog for example... they are trained to do various things.. attack, retrieve, sniff out... whatever... you get the basic idea?

What offensive abilities?

Here are a list of offensive abilities that a CH should be able to train a pet to do:

1) bleed attacks ... a pet that has teeth should cause some bleeds... don't you think?

2) webbing ... (dual purpose can be used for defensive purposes) but can cause an enemy to slow down in movement

3) dizzy / knock downs ... I really don't see this enough, especially from the larger pets

4) intimidation ... you mean that 50 foot dinosaur hasn't made me crap my pants?

What defensive abilities?

1) GUARD ... i swear this is a joke... they don't seem to guard me.. nor my NPC pets.

2) blockaide ... why doesn't my 50 foot dinosaur actually prevent someone from getting their dirty little hands on me by standing in the way?

What unique abilities?

I guess each pet can been trained to utilize their special attacks (like webbing or poison), and the better the CH (like master) the better those special attacks are (ie: more damage, more DOTS (?), more something).

Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?

Possibly add to group "rally" or intimidation factors... not to replace squad leaders but something simlilar to add to defenses or attack bonuses... I mean seriously.. if a group of 3 police officers came at you with 2 dogs each... wouldn't you get a little nervous and want to run away?

How could/should they interact with other professions?

As it currently is they have dependancieson medics and maybe BE's... personally i think that it is sufficient.

What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?

Dependencies on combat?... as it is the NPC's are attacking both the creatuers and the handlers... especially in a group. We already are relying on other combat players to protect us, and even more so since armor and protection changes have occured on pets... in reality this point is practically moot in my opinion as the changes have made using pets in combat rather usesless to a degree.

What defines theCreature Handler role in combat?

The Creature Handler brings "expendible" shock troops to a fight. Their role is to distract the enemy with large, impressive-looking monsters, or to divide their attention with multiple tank units to keep the enemy. They have the ability to increase the team's numbers. Also, the CH should be especially effective when a group is fighting creatures instead of people.

What basic combat elements should they possess?

CH is not trained in combat, but their war animals have fighting instincts. Thus the CH combat consists of the ability to obtain and use the creatures that are most useful to the upcoming fight.

What offensive abilities?

The ability to send in one large creature should be a distraction to the enemy. Whether the creature is actually dangerous or not is less of a factor than that it is large and impressive. NPCs should be distracted by the pet and waste more attention on it than it needs. For PvP this is less of a factor, but the large size can still distract people, shake their screen, and make it hard for them to choose some nearby targets. The ability to send in multiple smaller creatures allows the CH to tip the scale of the fight. If her group is outnumbered, several small tanks help to even the odds. If her group has numerical advantage, additional troops press that advantage.

What defensive abilities?

The fact that the creature is going into the fight is a great defense for the CH and her allies. This is a shield that is technically expendible. It allows the players with real brains to stay in the fight longer and react to the needs of the fight. A careful CH can stay well away from the actual fight and thus be in far less danger than he combat-trained allies.

What unique abilities?

Variety. Each creature may have some unique abilities that the CH can harness. It is up to her to find, train, and deploy the right creatures for the situation.In PvE against creatures,the CH should be able to confuse or taunt animal enemies, using her knowledge of creatures to play on their instincts.

Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?

When a group is fighting creatures, the CH should have greater ability to manipulate the animal enemies. A group should think: "If we're hunting, we should definitely bring a CH with us!" In other fights, the ability to increase a group's numbers with multiple pets, or distract the enemy with one large one are both useful additions.

How could/should they interact with other professions?

A CH should be far more powerful than other non-combat classes, and with a good creature should be a challenge to any Master Novice Brawler/Marksman. However, even the best CH should not pose a serious threat to a Master Elite fighter, unless the CH is clever in choosing a creature specifically geared toward the opponent's weaknesses. The CH has the advantage of versatility, so should not have an advantage of power.

What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?

The CH herself (unless also combat-trained) is fairly vulnerable in combat. Clever enemies will send at least one unit (if they have the numbers) to hunt her down. Unless she calls her creatures to her own defense, she will probably die. Once the CH is dead, her creatures continue what they were doing but will not change opponents unless attacked. Thus, the CH relies on other combat characters to protect her, and they rely on her pets to keep certain enemies busy.

What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?

Anti-creature specialists. Their role should be to cancel out enemy creatures. The side with the greater CH advantage then gets the distraction/numbers advantages.

Added Question: What is their weakness or shortcoming in combat?

Personal vulnerability. If the CH dies, the creatures cannot be controlled further and might even become vulnerable to enemy CH manipulations/taunts. Her pets aretough, but she is not.

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notjedi wrote:

At the moment, even with nearly master Carbinner, the only creatures that still mean something are the gurreck, rancor, toxic merrek battlelord and gapping spiders, creaturesof levels 44 to 50.That means a MCH can have a tank that is usefull on PVE, and useless on PVP. Graul Maulers are too dumb, not usefull anymore, and the BE creatures that have good specials also have weekness to most weapon types, or just don't have armour at all.

In combat i don't know any MCH that does'nt have weapons skills, either it's marksman or Carbinners, so the distance is the one recomended for their weapons. The importance of a MCH in a team is extreme, if we consider places like the nightsisters base on Dathomir, and the size of most teams beeing of about 8 to 10, including doc to ress, and entertainer.A rancor can tank a elder nightsister for about 1 mn before he dies, wich allows the team to scratch him a little bit. Of course in the end they will need to be ressed by good doc.

The profession of MCH should be abble to shield the team for some time, so they could shoot some hight level creatures.Teams of 20 are not impossible, but hard to gather all the ppl atone particular time.

Currently the MCH profession is just what was expected after the nerf, with no real usefull creatures of high levels, and nice to see kimoglias that make less damage then a gurreck. I keep this skill because i like my pets, but almost don't use them anymore. And as for PVP, even with nearly master carbinne and one of those creatures out, either i fight a teras kasi, a commando or bounty hunter i get killed, so bye bye pvp.

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