Development Cycle Archive
Thread: IC 1-6: Combat Roles; Creature Handler
In a galaxy far, far away, it is a time of civil war. The Empire has taken control over the galaxy and attempted to build the ultimate battle station to enforce the will of the Emperor. The rebellion destroyed the fearsome Death Star and this galactic conflict is at its peak.
In Massively Multiplayer combat, each profession should have a distinct role. Each role should help define the profession and have a relationship with its abilities in combat. In popular fantasy games, wizards cast ranged spells, warriors are “tanks”, and clerics “heal”. Each archetype has a specific role in combat and they all depend on each other for success. Additionally, each role gives any particular player group a unique feel depending on how many of each type is involved in a group and the role they play when combat gets tough.
In a science-fiction oriented game, those traditional roles aren’t so clear cut. Most skills and abilities are redundant because of balance issues, which take away from the unique feel of the profession. Many players have stated that they would like to see SWG professions have a more unique feel to them and we would like to know what your thoughts are.
Some basic balance considerations are:
* Ranged and Melee Professions
In SWG, a key thing to consider about each profession and its role in combat is that there are many ranged combat classes and many melee combat classes. Each ranged combat profession should have a unique aspect to their “ranged” abilities that helps distinguish them from other ranged combat professions, and likewise, each melee combat profession should have a unique aspect to their “tanking” or melee abilities that helps distinguish them from other melee professions.
* Redundant vs. Unique Abilities
There are two basic set of combat skills any profession should have. The first are Redundant Abilities. These are abilities that either most or all combat professions posses, in other words, “everyman combat skills”. The second set of combat skills a profession should posses are Unique Abilities. Unique abilities are the abilities that give a profession its unique feel in combat. In other words, it defines the profession and its role in combat.
* Game Space
Another basic concept to keep in mind when thinking about combat professions and their role in combat is Game Space. The next big consideration for assessing combat abilities is where the combat takes place. There are indoor spaces and outdoors spaces. Indoor spaces would be dungeons, bases and the like and outdoor spaces would be wilderness and/or city spaces.
* PvP and PvE
In SWG, players can choose between PvE and PvP playstyles and even shift back and forth to play in elements of both. PvE is “Player versus Environment” and basically deals with fighting computer controlled enemies in combat. PvP is “Player versus Player” and is real players fighting real players and tends to be very tricky because anytime something in game is at stake (like faction equipment, etc), it is important to keep things fair and balanced, but also fun.
* Profession Lifespan
What is the profession’s role in its novice state and how should the skill progress over the course of a player’s time investment in the profession? At all times any given profession should have a distinct role and value in combat. As a player progresses from Novice to Master, the profession should reflect something special about the profession and also be fun to play.
Given the basic considerations listed above, please answer the following questions:
What defines theCreature Handler role in combat?
What basic combat elements should they possess?
What offensive abilities?
What defensive abilities?
What unique abilities?
Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
How could/should they interact with other professions?
What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?
What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?
Request For Comments:
The community is invited to make commentsthrough April. At that time, the thread will be closed to further comments. Feel free to comment on any or all of the above items. Please stay on topic.
Thanks for reading. I can't wait to hear what you think of these ideas...
Given the basic considerations listed above, please answer the following questions:
What defines theCreature Handler role in combat?
A Creature Handler's role in combat should be both. Some tameables primarily for tanking. Some tameables primarily for damage dealing.
What basic combat elements should they possess?
It all depends on the tameables. You can't really give a CH combat mods outside of their pets.
What offensive abilities?
Some tameables for pure damage, less tanking. Up some damage here. Low some kinetic resists there. Add light armor piercing for some tameables, you have a damage dealer then.
What defensive abilities?
Some tameables for pure tanking. Low damage, high HAM, high resist pets, you have a tank.A Stand alone Creature Handler is only as good as the pet he/she tames, and this is hardly taken into account.
What unique abilities?
Here is an idea I have for further Creature Handler progression. Pet specializations. Say I choose a Rancor as my specialized pet. Here is a basic idea of how it would work
- Novice Rancor Trainer
Large reduction in HAM costs for the /enragepets and /emboldenpets commands
- Rancor Agressiveness Training
Anatural boost in the Rancors damage from 540-550 to 660-680
/berserk2 and /intimidate2 commands for pet
- Advanced Rancor Empathy
/sentry command for pet. "Pet will guard target to the death disallowing anything within 20m's of target"
Instead of a pet vitality loss, the Creature Handler will have the option of taking SEVERE wounds to himself in exchange of preventing the loss of 1 vitality point to his pet.
- Advanced Rancor Conditioning
+40 Pet Terrain Negotiation
20% HAM increase
- Master Rancor Handler
/trick 3 command healing all mind and wound damage by 90%
/trick 4 command healing all mind and wound damage by 100% curing any disease or poison as well
/breed command Allowing your Rancor to breed with another Rancorproducing a baby of that particular species for the Creature Handler to tame
(must be at a lair of the same species)
/trainmount command allowing the Creature Handler to also make his specialized combatpet into a mount only he can use and ride.
I think you get the idea and hope you like it half as much as I do.
Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
Like I said. All depends on the pets. A Creature Handler would have the option to use either his tank pets or his damage dealing pets, depending on what he/she has tamed.
How could/should they interact with other professions?
Providing breeding services for Bio Engineers. Providing non-combat uses to non-Ch's, such as rescue pets. (a pet that drags incapped PC's or delivers medicine). Entertainer pets that are trained to "sing" along or do tricks with their entertainer master, giving them bonuses to healing. So many ideas are already on the CH forum.
What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?
Giving CH's the option to tame tanking pets as well as damage dealing pets will give them a more broad role in a group. CH's already depend on BE's for stims and more often now, pets. I am not sure how else a CH could interact or depend on others.
What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?
How about Giving the larger tameables (Tortons, Maklocs, Fambaas) an ability to carry shield generators to assist in battlefield fights. Or the ability for the same large tameables to do area kinetic damage as they run through a group of enemies in battlefield encounters. This could be a command reserved only for the large tameables such as Tortons, Kimogila's, Fambaas and such. A /stampede command used only for battlefield encounters.
Currently in a PvP situation, pets are just not viable. They die much to quickly and can be ignored for several reasons.
1. Pet damage output only consists of kinetic.
2. They have no armor piercing.
3. They do not hit hard enough.
4. They do not hit fast enough.
5. They usually stop attacking when the CH is killed, they do not protect to the death as they should for theirmasters.
Thus the reasonspetscan and are ignored in a PvPbattle.
Request For Comments:
The community is invited to make commentsthrough April. At that time, the thread will be closed to further comments. Feel free to comment on any or all of the above items. Please stay on topic.
Well, someone has to start, so I hope my entry starts a discussion here....
Even though I am a former MCH (gotta change that sig 
), I'll answer these the best i can.
What defines theCreature Handler role in combat? Well, the pets are largely tanks (only a couple use ranged), but they are also effective in PVP if used correctly.
What basic combat elements should they possess? Well, besides their usual combat elements such as resists and all, they should work correctly, for example if something is 100% resistant to something, that must have the effect of spraying water, that is cause no damage whatsoever.
What offensive abilities? I think the handlers should be able to have the pet target a single HAM pool because right now the attacks are all over the board and inefficient.
What defensive abilities? look at the basic combat elements. Also we could be able to put armor on the pets, remember the armoured mounts concept pics you showed us a while back, it could be along the lines of that. But not all pets can be armored, for example, small creatures such as Jaxes would only be weighed down by it and some large creatures (such as the Fambaa) would be far too large to have armour.
What unique abilities? The special abilities that creatures currently have is fine, but i'd like to see the command work properly
Should add what advantage or asset in group combat? they are good tanks for one and they are good for drawing in creatures.
How could/should they interact with other professions? not sure
What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants? not sure
What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War? not sure, but right now they are effective in PVP( depends wideley though)and in a city's militia, they could act like police dogs in a sense. Although the role could change entirely once those 'battle droids' come out.
that was a little wierd, the whole board locked up for some reason......
I assume others can reply about other ppls ideas here
and something I forgot to say PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE FIX PET PATHING!
Aakhperkare wrote:
+40 Pet Terrain Negotiation I agree, some pets need better terrain negotiation
/trick 4 command healing all mind and wound damage by 100% curing any disease or poison as well I think two trick commands are enough
/breed command Allowing your Rancor to breed with another Rancorproducing a baby of that particular species for the Creature Handler to tame an intriguing concept!
I've always thought of having a ranch or something.
Providing breeding services for Bio Engineers. Providing non-combat uses to non-Ch's, such as rescue pets. (a pet that drags incapped PC's or delivers medicine). Entertainer pets that are trained to "sing" along or do tricks with their entertainer master, giving them bonuses to healing. So many ideas are already on the CH forum. I agree on this one
How about Giving the larger tameables (Tortons, Maklocs, Fambaas) an ability to carry shield generators to assist in battlefield fights. Or the ability for the same large tameables to do area kinetic damage as they run through a group of enemies in battlefield encounters. This could be a command reserved only for the large tameables such as Tortons, Kimogila's, Fambaas and such. A /stampede command used only for battlefield encounters.
Currently in a PvP situation, pets are just not viable. They die much to quickly and can be ignored for several reasons.
1. Pet damage output only consists of kinetic.
2. They have no armor piercing.
3. They do not hit hard enough.
4. They do not hit fast enough.
5. They usually stop attacking when the CH is killed, they do not protect to the death as they should for theirmasters.
I agree on all of this
Thunderheart wrote:
In a galaxy far, far away, it is a time of civil war. The Empire has taken control over the galaxy and attempted to build the ultimate battle station to enforce the will of the Emperor. The rebellion destroyed the fearsome Death Star and this galactic conflict is at its peak.
In Massively Multiplayer combat, each profession should have a distinct role. Each role should help define the profession and have a relationship with its abilities in combat. In popular fantasy games, wizards cast ranged spells, warriors are “tanks”, and clerics “heal”. Each archetype has a specific role in combat and they all depend on each other for success. Additionally, each role gives any particular player group a unique feel depending on how many of each type is involved in a group and the role they play when combat gets tough.
In a science-fiction oriented game, those traditional roles aren’t so clear cut. Most skills and abilities are redundant because of balance issues, which take away from the unique feel of the profession. Many players have stated that they would like to see SWG professions have a more unique feel to them and we would like to know what your thoughts are.
Some basic balance considerations are:
* Ranged and Melee Professions
In SWG, a key thing to consider about each profession and its role in combat is that there are many ranged combat classes and many melee combat classes. Each ranged combat profession should have a unique aspect to their “ranged” abilities that helps distinguish them from other ranged combat professions, and likewise, each melee combat profession should have a unique aspect to their “tanking” or melee abilities that helps distinguish them from other melee professions.
* Redundant vs. Unique Abilities
There are two basic set of combat skills any profession should have. The first are Redundant Abilities. These are abilities that either most or all combat professions posses, in other words, “everyman combat skills”. The second set of combat skills a profession should posses are Unique Abilities. Unique abilities are the abilities that give a profession its unique feel in combat. In other words, it defines the profession and its role in combat.
* Game Space
Another basic concept to keep in mind when thinking about combat professions and their role in combat is Game Space. The next big consideration for assessing combat abilities is where the combat takes place. There are indoor spaces and outdoors spaces. Indoor spaces would be dungeons, bases and the like and outdoor spaces would be wilderness and/or city spaces.
* PvP and PvE
In SWG, players can choose between PvE and PvP playstyles and even shift back and forth to play in elements of both. PvE is “Player versus Environment” and basically deals with fighting computer controlled enemies in combat. PvP is “Player versus Player” and is real players fighting real players and tends to be very tricky because anytime something in game is at stake (like faction equipment, etc), it is important to keep things fair and balanced, but also fun.
* Profession Lifespan
What is the profession’s role in its novice state and how should the skill progress over the course of a player’s time investment in the profession? At all times any given profession should have a distinct role and value in combat. As a player progresses from Novice to Master, the profession should reflect something special about the profession and also be fun to play.
Given the basic considerations listed above, please answer the following questions:
What defines theCreature Handler role in combat?
what defines it now? creatures are pretty much good for tanks. what should define it? as stated above, differant creatures should have differant roles. although I wouldn't limit it to tanking and damage dealing.for example some creatures like a Kimo could have the ability to roar loudly scaring away most of the NPCs in the area, even if they are agroing (this of course would depend on the lvl of the pet and the NPCs).
What basic combat elements should they possess?
depends on the creature of course...
What offensive abilities?
I think that alot of the creatures should have creature specific attacks that make sense to the pet. You still have to be a certain level to use these attacks but they very widely in purpose making each creature unique and worth having. like some of the larger pets could have an area attack like the /stampede comand mentioned above.
What defensive abilities?
once again depends on your pet
What unique abilities?
the unique abilities of your pets.. I also think the whole breeding pets idea is a great 1.. we'd still have to think of how to make it useful in the game.
Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
Any number of advantages.. it all depends on the pet.
How could/should they interact with other professions?
I'm not really sure about this 1... I'll leave it to everyone else
What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?
again not sure
What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?
the sheald generator idea is a really good 1!
Request For Comments:
The community is invited to make commentsthrough April. At that time, the thread will be closed to further comments. Feel free to comment on any or all of the above items. Please stay on topic.
Other coments:
I really think that the combat role of pets should be very limited in all non-CH. We see to many creature pets running around and the main problem is there is no other option.. I think that all combat droids added to this game should be superior to non-CH creatures... but CH should still have pets better then combat droids (we are afterall investing our skill points in it.)
There should be many non-combat pets that can do various things mentioned in a post above, like dance with their entertainer and such. these would give small bonuses to the healing abilities of the entertainers or whoever was using them for whatever purpose.
I also wish that CH pets could be sold on the bazaar/vendors. I'm not sure why this isn't in now, I think it would be a good thing for the CH.
The Creature Handler in combat is someone who has opted to use creatures to perform some
function they cannot themselves. In other words, the tamed pets should be able to provide damage absorbtion if the handler is too squishy, or deal damage if the handler has no advanced combat skills, or apply DOTs or other state changes the handler cannot apply.
What basic combat elements should they possess?
Since the Creature Handler is shunting combat onto their pet, any combat benefit should be conferred to their pet. This should be reflected in the training; a more advanced Creature Handler should be able to train their pet to be faster, more accurate, stronger, and smarter than their wild cousins, just like a Pistoleer gains speed, accuracy, damage and defense bonuses with training.
What offensive abilities?
At the expense of training effort, perhaps in the form of combat during growth stages, the
Creature Handler should be able to confer offensive bonuses to their pets.
What defensive abilities?
Similarly, defensive bonuses.
What unique abilities?
The profession is unique in that only Creature Handlers are able to train and manage large creatures.
Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
The Creature Handler adds the asset of their creatures to group combat. Whatever benefits the creature gives the handler would also be given to the group.
How could/should they interact with other professions?
A Creature Handler should be able to train pets for more than mere combat. Pets should be capable of aiding performers, carrying heavy equipment, as well as mounts for both travel and combat. A tusk cat rider doesn't mount up just to travel, after all! The interaction with Bio-Engineers is obvious, but less obvious would be armorsmiths producing armor for specific pet body types, and tailors producing the saddles for mounts.
What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?
A Creature Handler uses their creature in combat to supplement a weakness in the handler's abilities. With no further skills, this will probably leave the handler half capable of combat, requiring either another combatant to absorb damage to keep the creature healthy, or to deal damage while the creature keeps the combatant healthy. This dependency, however, can also be filled by the handler training in combat skills -- NOT to be mistaken with assuming the Creature Handler is a combat profession directly!
What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?
In a combat role, adding a creature to aid an assault or bolster a defense can tip the scale for either side. In a non combat role, Creature Handlers should be able to provide services irrespective of the GCW, as do other non combat professions.
Hello there,
I'm a little concerned that the bio-engineer profession is being overlooked here, if you think about it the creature handling profession and the bio-engineer profession go along with each other. I think that perhaps instead of doctors being able to buff pets, bio-engineer's should be able to buff them. Instead of having to get your pets wounds healed by a medic (which usually wont do it cause it takes so long and they dont get any xp) perhaps bio-engineers should have a specialized pet wound pack. Maybe bio-engineers should be able to place a building within the city where ch's can bring their pets (kinda like a pethospital) where their pets wounds will be healed over time. Also there could be a place where they can store their creatures from their datapad(for those of us who enjoy collecting all the various creatures from around the galaxy). I became a bio-engineer and a creature handler in the hopes that they would go hand in hand, unfortunatly i found that neither profession goes very well withthe other. Instead of grinding all that crafting xp it would have been more fun to get xp for healing peoples creatures. Cause if you look at it no one will heal creatures without either being paid, or being charmed. As for the creatures being to powerful? Ive seen a tka take down all my creatures and me without even getting to half health, and im a master ch. The whole creating unblevible non-ch pets had me a little fumed(which im glad thats taken care of) but the real issue is that no one is really taking on the ch profession anymore, or the be feild for that fact. As much as i love logging on and having my macro grind my crafting xp, its boring, not fun, and basically seen as a huge waste of my time. If there was a little mini-game that i could play to craft items, that might make it a little more entertaining. I didnt mean to ramble on so much, but the ch and be professions have the potential to become great and even equal the other professions, but right now these are only seen as something that has to be grinded because of the holo's.
P.S. Please be kind this is my first message posting about the swg game.
Kasle, Bria server
What defines theCreature Handler role in combat?
In my opinionCH needs to be defined as a hybrid profession with sub-trees that allow for a pet fighting profession. As it is now CH has only tanking ability and must rely on his pets as meat shields while using a separate fighting profession to deliver the damage necessary to take out the target. This is flawed because a MCH that invests their points in Master Scout can only master Pistoleer, TKM or Carbineer. Very limited abilities. The Scout and MCH professions should be combined and there should be a sub-tree or multiple sub-trees to take CH in new directions as a fighting profession and a support profession. This gives the CH the ability to choose the role they wish to play in combat and it expands the possibilities. A CH with a fighting sub-tree would deal more damage (the equivelant of a CH with a separate fighting profession) and have unique pet specials. A support sub-tree would cost less points and allow a CH to have part of a fighting profession (as it is now) and use pets as tanks. In the scheme of things existing wild creatures can be revamped to fit combat or tank roles. CH is already a combat profession. Giving us the choice of roles we'd like to fill would greatly enhance CH's abilities in battle and our satisfaction with the game.
What basic combat elements should they possess? What offensive abilities? What defensive abilities? What unique abilities? Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
Again, if the above is implemented, it depends which tree was chosen. CH has many possibilities. Giving multiple branches for a CH to choose from would be key. Restrict the CH to only choosing one sub-tree for the direction they want to go. Depending on the sub-tree (melee/tank support/ranged, for instance) you would add specials and/or use existing specials. Another concept would be to allow pet stats to adjust to the CH's sub-tree automatically; a CH with melee might tame a GSP and get special melee attacks while a CH with ranged might tame that same GSP and get ranged attacks OR a CH with tank support might get a GSP with high HAM or resists.
How could/should they interact with other professions?
The CH/BE relationship should be intertwined, not one-way. As it is now a BE sells pets to CH. A CH trains pets, but the BE isn't really benefiting from our training capabilities because the buyer is the one that takes the pet to a higher level CH if they want extra commands. Making the BE dependent on the CH for some enhancements, say specials or resist adjustments (tied in with sub-tree idea above) would allow for CH's to become an integral part of the BE process. Another idea would be to allow breeding to take place between pets and selling the DNA samples to the BE for enhanced pets. A third generation pet may be bread for better strength, certain specials, better resists, damage---you name it. Other professions really don't rely on the CH too much. I do think CH needs a way to sell pets outside of spamming in Coronet.
What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?
Pets should protect the group, not just the CH. Allowing pets to fill roles that you may not be able to find for a group (melee/ranged/tank support) at a particular time could really enhance what would be a weak group. Say you can't find that TKM... no problem, throw in a tank support CH. What if you can't get the Rifleman? No problem...there's a ranged CH over there with some BDQ's bred for spitting acid. Pets should be able to fill roles in a group, but not be the group's livelyhood at all times.
What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?
As it is now the Creature Handler role is to use a fighting profession because the CH pets are too weak against opponents. I'm assuming with the coming new changes this will be to a lesser degree. CH pets can play important roles. Taking from my idea about sub-trees... how about some ranged pets to defend a fort? Any/all of the aforementioned ideas could be applied to PVP. The only difference is you have human opponents with more powerful attacks and defenses. Buffs for pets would be a great improvement. Allowing a PVP CH to beef up their pets with BE-made pet enhancements, just like the humans do. If you're a wookiee like I am you also need protected---especially if you have no fighting profession (ala sub-tree which replaces fighting profession). A pet to solely protect the CH at all times would be a nice touch. The pet never leaves the CH's side and will take on melee opponents, forcing them to fight the pet instead of the CH. Do away with the way a pet just stops what it's doing when a CH dies. A pet should be loyal to their master to the death. If a pet sees his master incap the pet should gain berserk status and get very angry. This would add to the protection of the CH in combat. Killing the CH would no longer be the logical choice. Since the attacks are what an opponent is trying to squelch, the pets should be the focus if the pets are the only fighting defense a CH has. Pets would take vitality damage as normal, but since the pets would be stronger and more viable in PVP than they are now they would not die quite as much.
Closing comments...
The real problem with CH is there is no definition as to what role CH fits into. There are some great ideas on these forums, but the devs must decide whether the CH should rely on a separate fighting class or use their pets as their defense. As I stated before, a serious MCH can only train in the basic Pistoleer and Carbineer (or TKM) fighting professions if they want to keep Master Scout. Adjusting the trees and making us a true fighting class would end the dispute once and for all and give us the direction we've been seeking all along.
You know i make no bones about saying you single handedly talked the CH profession into this nerf.
Ideas about the role of CH:
Roleplay value: two responses you will see:
1) I love pets and want to be a space age Steve Irwin.
2) Man theres some wild pets out there i can use as weapons to kill people. Yes i sed it attacking Overts with pets is Roleplaying too.
Group Combat: Only addressing current role:
1) Send in pets.
2) Watch and wait.
3) Switch to new target when dead (im sorry for this reference but CH is nothing more than the EQ chanter in space, we are crowd control)
4) Watch the commando burn things and say man Flame 4 might return me to solo status.
5) powerlevel scouts and marksman. Sorry to all the brawlers ive let die you just take too much agro.
Solo Combat:
1) Pull out best pets.
2) Find acceptable payout mission. Usually substandard pay.
3) Be glad you took up master medic because your two tame graul cannot battle two of their wild counterparts. Sorry BE's healing every 5 seconds with Stim D beats every 15 with pet stims.
4) Wonder why TH hates CH so much while you lay incapped.
5) Get up with new resolution that he wont win and you will stay MCH regardless of how much he hates you.
6) think "man where is that commando trainer?"
Commercial Value:
1) what CH's have commerce?
2) realize that if a BE is charging 50K for weak pets that your only options is to charge 25K to get back in the game.
3) ask repeatedly of TH and Corrs to entertain the idea of giving CH's a "Train Pet as" line of commands. Such as Rescue for medics/doctors, suicide bombers in the case of CM, fetching for scouts (harvesting the scouts portion of a kill from afar and bringing it back), increased Driod Tracking Speed for BH's on slice hounds. Better Ranger tracking, not thought of a use for commando, tka, other melee. And stupid pet tricks for entertainers. Resource seeker for Artisan (not so far fetched there are even boas that track cocaine).
4) terrain negotiation making mounts atleast desireable in some instances.
5) ask for a better CH/BE relationship. CH's become the weaponsmiths finding pets and BE's do the slicing.
6) as a CH while your hunting for pets drop miners near other miners to see whats being farmed and sell the extra for money.
7) pray the devs put milking in our scout tree.
Game Space:
1) scout is required for CH i think that explains it.
2) sides theres no 5 foot rancors.
3) Novel idea because of group member complaints. CH's make Stunt/Retard growth stim. We rely too much on BE for everything else alteast make this unique for us. BE PETS, BE STIMS, BE VIT Packs, BE clothes. Give us back some independence PLEASE.
PvP v PvE.
1) youre kidding right? TH you and the SOE mantra of forced grouping has forced every CH to realize that grouping is indeed the one way to insure survival.
2) our pets specials and ranged are missing or dont work.
3) at best pre nerf we were 4th in PvP.
4) a BE's CL1 pet can beat my CL46 Rancor hands down. (they are still out there saw 3 CL0 last nite).
5) want to see the Hutt Faction.
6) Did i mention Flame 4 in the commando tree?
7) Store pets must go to at will. I dont see the same "issues" with anyone else switching their weapons at will. Hell theres not even a delay factor. If you are gonna leave us at 1 minute it should atleast take a person 10 seconds to change from Carb (fire knockdown) to pistol (eyeshot) then another 10 to LLC or back to Carb.
Unique Abilites: You know how you tame a graul unique up on him. you know how you tame a frenzied? you dont.
1) lol your kidding again right?
2) we train pets that only we want (cynicism)
3) We train mounts that only poor newbs want.
4) We spend a lot on stims for pets, so much that healers should be reinstated XP for healing pets. (sides everyone who wants to powerlevel gets a friend to /tumbletostanding other than orgranics you too can be master medic in a day).
Interactions:
1) i feel that through discussions i can safely say 75% of us would prefer to be soloist. i may be wrong, but i also know im close.
2) A SQL should be able to heal my pets states if grouped. Especially since they tank and are weakened by those of you who felt we are too UBER.
3) I will accept my role as weakened and will not buy BE pets, I dont need the BE stims as a master medic. The only possible thing i need is TAME clothes and the milk nerf will make those affordable.
4) Since you must as SOE mantra force grouping i will accept it and buy the accounts i need to maintain my "i only want to worry about me status". Not that im selfish or dont group with close friends. But i refuse to put up an LFG Flag and wait for an hour to get into a group to find that the primary healer is leaving in 15 minutes. EQ in space will not work.
5) I will continue to interact with other CH's in such support that SOE finally realize they need to undo what they have broken. The game was playing out fine. Fix the broke stuff like Chef and BE without killing someone elses fun. If you could only fix half of what you nerfed the player fan base might be larger already. None of the people i know in real life want to play because of the word on the street.
6) I interact with fellow CH's who feel noone is listening. Youve personally (yes i do hold you accountable TH) have ruined a fine game. I went from that enjoying logging in feeling to that 4th year vet of EQ feeling in one nice nerf.
7) i hope to eventually interact with WS's and this idea that certain things should wear armor, turrets or PSG's could go along way as long as the coding were such that either you had a BE pet OR it were an armored wild pet. This idea promotes a choice. Given a choice i think things smooth out entirely.
8) hmm this DH thing looks interesting, Maybe if it too requires so few prereqs ill master it too. And dont tell me theres still going to be a 3 pet limit. 6 pets and no combat abilites might make me somewhat uber but atleast i will have spent all my points doing it A LA BH.
(Clarification)
My above suggestions are to make CH a true fighting class and do away with their need for a separate weapon. Make the pets the weapon(s). As a true fighting class this gives CH direction it never had before. CH isn't an artisan at all, therefore its role as a non-fighting class is limited to selling pets and training them. If pets have no roles in non-CH anymore this paves the way for the CH fighting class to be born.
You know i make no bones about saying you single handedly talked the CH profession into this nerf.
Ideas about the role of CH:
Roleplay value: two responses you will see:
1) I love pets and want to be a space age Steve Irwin.
2) Man theres some wild pets out there i can use as weapons to kill people. Yes i sed it attacking Overts with pets is Roleplaying too.
Group Combat: Only addressing current role:
1) Send in pets.
2) Watch and wait.
3) Switch to new target when dead (im sorry for this reference but CH is nothing more than the EQ chanter in space, we are crowd control)
4) Watch the commando burn things and say man Flame 4 might return me to solo status.
5) powerlevel scouts and marksman. Sorry to all the brawlers ive let die you just take too much agro.
Solo Combat:
1) Pull out best pets.
2) Find acceptable payout mission. Usually substandard pay.
3) Be glad you took up master medic because your two tame graul cannot battle two of their wild counterparts. Sorry BE's healing every 5 seconds with Stim D beats every 15 with pet stims.
4) Wonder why TH hates CH so much while you lay incapped.
5) Get up with new resolution that he wont win and you will stay MCH regardless of how much he hates you.
6) think "man where is that commando trainer?"
Commercial Value:
1) what CH's have commerce?
2) realize that if a BE is charging 50K for weak pets that your only options is to charge 25K to get back in the game.
3) ask repeatedly of TH and Corrs to entertain the idea of giving CH's a "Train Pet as" line of commands. Such as Rescue for medics/doctors, suicide bombers in the case of CM, fetching for scouts (harvesting the scouts portion of a kill from afar and bringing it back), increased Driod Tracking Speed for BH's on slice hounds. Better Ranger tracking, not thought of a use for commando, tka, other melee. And stupid pet tricks for entertainers. Resource seeker for Artisan (not so far fetched there are even boas that track cocaine).
4) terrain negotiation making mounts atleast desireable in some instances.
5) ask for a better CH/BE relationship. CH's become the weaponsmiths finding pets and BE's do the slicing.
6) as a CH while your hunting for pets drop miners near other miners to see whats being farmed and sell the extra for money.
7) pray the devs put milking in our scout tree.
Game Space:
1) scout is required for CH i think that explains it.
2) sides theres no 5 foot rancors.
3) Novel idea because of group member complaints. CH's make Stunt/Retard growth stim. We rely too much on BE for everything else alteast make this unique for us. BE PETS, BE STIMS, BE VIT Packs, BE clothes. Give us back some independence PLEASE.
PvP v PvE.
1) youre kidding right? TH you and the SOE mantra of forced grouping has forced every CH to realize that grouping is indeed the one way to insure survival.
2) our pets specials and ranged are missing or dont work.
3) at best pre nerf we were 4th in PvP.
4) a BE's CL1 pet can beat my CL46 Rancor hands down. (they are still out there saw 3 CL0 last nite).
5) want to see the Hutt Faction.
6) Did i mention Flame 4 in the commando tree?
7) Store pets must go to at will. I dont see the same "issues" with anyone else switching their weapons at will. Hell theres not even a delay factor. If you are gonna leave us at 1 minute it should atleast take a person 10 seconds to change from Carb (fire knockdown) to pistol (eyeshot) then another 10 to LLC or back to Carb.
Unique Abilites: You know how you tame a graul unique up on him. you know how you tame a frenzied? you dont.
1) lol your kidding again right?
2) we train pets that only we want (cynicism)
3) We train mounts that only poor newbs want.
4) We spend a lot on stims for pets, so much that healers should be reinstated XP for healing pets. (sides everyone who wants to powerlevel gets a friend to /tumbletostanding other than orgranics you too can be master medic in a day).
Interactions:
1) i feel that through discussions i can safely say 75% of us would prefer to be soloist. i may be wrong, but i also know im close.
2) A SQL should be able to heal my pets states if grouped. Especially since they tank and are weakened by those of you who felt we are too UBER.
3) I will accept my role as weakened and will not buy BE pets, I dont need the BE stims as a master medic. The only possible thing i need is TAME clothes and the milk nerf will make those affordable.
4) Since you must as SOE mantra force grouping i will accept it and buy the accounts i need to maintain my "i only want to worry about me status". Not that im selfish or dont group with close friends. But i refuse to put up an LFG Flag and wait for an hour to get into a group to find that the primary healer is leaving in 15 minutes. EQ in space will not work.
5) I will continue to interact with other CH's in such support that SOE finally realize they need to undo what they have broken. The game was playing out fine. Fix the broke stuff like Chef and BE without killing someone elses fun. If you could only fix half of what you nerfed the player fan base might be larger already. None of the people i know in real life want to play because of the word on the street.
6) I interact with fellow CH's who feel noone is listening. Youve personally (yes i do hold you accountable TH) have ruined a fine game. I went from that enjoying logging in feeling to that 4th year vet of EQ feeling in one nice nerf.
7) i hope to eventually interact with WS's and this idea that certain things should wear armor, turrets or PSG's could go along way as long as the coding were such that either you had a BE pet OR it were an armored wild pet. This idea promotes a choice. Given a choice i think things smooth out entirely.
8) hmm this DH thing looks interesting, Maybe if it too requires so few prereqs ill master it too. And dont tell me theres still going to be a 3 pet limit. 6 pets and no combat abilites might make me somewhat uber but atleast i will have spent all my points doing it A LA BH.
The following is just a sample of what a CH fighting profession tree might
look like. It covers all aspects of how powerful creatures would be in
different combat situations. The higher you train in each, the better your
ability to use pets for specific tasks in combat. Along with this tree would
come special training commands for creatures. Instead of endowing creatures
with things like specials and ranged from the start, allow the creature handler
to train the pet/modify the pet with command training that can give the pet
specials. This allows the CH to have an arsenal of pets with a wide range of
capabilities. Once a pet is trained with these special endowment commands
they cannot be changed for the life of the pet. It would solve the problem
of pets not fitting in PVP and allow the CH to use strategies when training
their pets for combat. Imagine the fun of trying out your newly trianed
pet's special abilities. (NOTE: I tried to use HTML tables but the forum
won't support it)
Master Creature Combat Specialist
Melee 1 - 4 | Tactics 1 - 4 | Ranged 1 - 4 | Specials 1 - 4
Novice Creature Combat Specialist