Development Cycle Archive

Thunderheart...read the pistoleer forums. How many times can you ask the same questions? Over and over the various communities have tried and tried to work on this 'communication' that you claim to love so much. In the end it just turns into us answering the same questions over and over again. The 'stickies' on the profession forums have all the wisdom you could ever want.

Karistovan, Lowca

mastergunfighter/master smuggler/annoyed player

What defines thePistoleerrole in combat? The speed at which he can attack. as things are now, Carbineers and riflemen can fire some of their weapons just as fast as a pistoleer.

What basic combat elements should they possess? Pistoleers should be able to fire much faster ( .5 seconds or faster)

What offensive abilities? Disarming shot should unequip someones' weapon, Disarming Shot 2 should delay their ability to reequip their weapon (5 seconds maybe). Multi Target Pistol Shot should work kinda like Fan Shot, but be much more powerful. Pistol Melee Defense 2 should be the one that knocks people down, and Pistol Melee Defense 1 should lower posture or have some sort of staus effect (Dizzy would make sense after being clubbed in the head with a pistol). Body Shot 3 should be more powerful, as things are now, all of the most powerful pistol attacks effect ramdom HAM, whereas other ranged professions can focus one one pool.

What defensive abilities? Although the dodging has increased, I think it could still be better. It slows you down if you are kiting. There should be an increase in defense vs status effects (especially dizzy and blind and blind and blind).

What unique abilities? Weilding dual pistols should be a master pistoleer skill. It should lower accuracy a bit though. Pistoleers should run faster than carbineers, riflemen, and others that carry combursome weapons.

Should add what advantage or asset in group combat? Groups that have a pistoleer, a carbineer, and a rifleman should perhaps get an accuracy boost.

Thats all I have. Thanks for putting this board up. Hopefully the whiners wonmt find it.

i was a master pistoleer.

some of the atatcks need to be looked over and adjusted properly....but with the combat revamp youll probably do that anyway.

Id suggest reducing soem of the defenses (they are not a melee class), increasing the speed, leaving damage alone, and decreasing the max ranges. Pistols should not have ranges equal to that of carbines and rifles, they are shorter range weapons. They should fire fast and have the damage they do now though.

WHAT DEFINES THE PISTOLEER ROLL IN COMBAT

In combat, the pistol is the last resort ranged weapon. In RL situations, it is used as the go to gun. When all else has failed to keep your opponent at bay, it is time to unholster the sidearm and give the opposing side a few well placed holes. The last place an opponent wants to be is right next to a guy with a handgun. It is the most easily controlled, easy to maneuver with ranged weapon. With this in mind, the pistoleer should be the next stepout from a melee weapon wielder, able to rapidly and violently deal with multiple targets within close quarters. Every inch closer gives the advantage to the man with the gun. Optimum range should start at3 metersand steadily decline from there. Any closer than 3 meters allows the opponent the opportunity to physically intervene with the pistoleers aim.

WHAT BASIC COMBAT ELEMENTS SHOULD THEY POSSESS

The pistoleer should have the easiest time switching targets, and while in optimum range be particularly deadly to anyone but the most experienced.Even the newest gun handler can put effective holes in an opponent from 3 meters. Medium and extreme ranged shots are rarely performable by anyone except the best in the profession. Also, due to the phisics of a pistol (ie. size, weight, balance), slightly limited melee attacksshould be available to practiced pistoleers.

WHAT OFFENSIVE ABILITIES

The pistoleer should be able to cause specific damage while in range, albiet less damage than other weapons due to the limited projectile properties, but at the same time quickly as a RL pistol wielder can fire 15 shots in less than 2 seconds. A pistoleer can chose to shoot head, body or leg as the need in combat isnoticed, although not at the same speed one fires just to empty a magazine (RL reference).

WHAT DEFENSIVE ABILITIES

While in close range a pistoleer can choose a number of ways to limit his opponents ability to cause him damage. Because the pistol is light and easy to move with, the dodging ability of a pistoleer should be high. Also, movement while firing causes little problem with aim with practiced handgun wielders. Critical shots aimed at certain body parts may not be as physically damaging, but can create penalties to the opponent for their actions.

Appologize for the split in posts, I am getting off of work.

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Given the basic considerations listed above, please answer the following questions:

What defines thePistoleerrole in combat?

The Pistoleer is or should be a semi ranged combatant. Their role is for mid range defense - attack abilities.

What basic combat elements should they possess?

Speed & Accuracy

What offensive abilities?

Duel Weilding pistols - fast shots -

What defensive abilities?

Dodge and should have the fastest moves of any other profession we are prime targets

What unique abilities?

Two weapon use. We have one handed weapons - a Master Pistoleer should have the ability to use 2 pistols ata time.

Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?

The asset of duel weapons - greater dodge abilities will aid a group

How could/should they interact with other professions?

As a mid range support function - ability to dodge close up combatants - creatures deal faster damage.

What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?

A better ability to use disarm shot with NPCs in PVE - PC's in PVP

What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?

No unique role here

Request For Comments:

The community is invited to make commentsthrough April. At that time, the thread will be closed to further comments. Feel free to comment on any or all of the above items. Please stay on topic.

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I THINK PISTOLEERS NEED DUEL PISTOL ABILITIES and make it so more damage but less acurate

I agree with the Duel Pistol Ability. How you devs can work it out is give the Master Pistoleers who do use duel Pistols, (since it should be exclusive to Master anyway) the option to wield two pistols. Some may stick with the single pistol.

Now when wielding two pistols they should be the same pistol design, otherwise, people will be wielding a pistol that does Energy damage and one that does Heat. Or Acid and Stun.

When firing with two pistols, I do agree, give them a penalty when firing two pistols in accuracy. The Aim ability should not work with Duel Pistols.

The advantages should be:

1) Double Damage if using plan fire
2) Can use two Special Abilities (ie One pistol uses Body Shot 2, the other uses Health Shot 2. The target takes the Body Shot damage and takes a Bleed from the Health Shot on the same turn)
3) Increases the damage if using the same Special Ability
4) Target has a chance to become Dizzy if hit with Pistol Melee Defence

But there are disadvantages to holding two weapons and here they are:

1) Suffer a penalty to your accuracy and speed
2) Cannot use the Aim Ability
3) Doubles the HAM Cost for Special Abilities
4) Doubles the penalty of Blind if you hold two pistols

IMO using 2 pistols is key. But I think thye should alternate pistol specials from one to the other, or one is regular fire only and the other works as it always has. The last thing we need is to increase our HAM costs. I think alternating between one pistol using specials and the other using standard attack give us a small and effective boost that does not make the concept over powering.

Po-Mo, Master Pistoleer

What defines thePistoleerrole in combat?

Short range ranged combat. RL pistol combat USUALLY takes place at less than 3M. Maximum EFFECTIVE range is approximately 25M. At 3M or less aiming is not really a problem for a well trained marksman, and 90% plus should be hits. The weapon used and the area of the hits determines the damage, though at 3M or less most would be torso or head shots. At 25M this is less certain but a well trained marksman should be able to hit at least 70% of the time but over the entire target range. This mitigates damage. At 3M or less the Pistoleer should be absolutley deadly, while at 25M still dangerous, but not as deadly. Range is a VITAL factor in pistol combat. The Pistoleer thus fills the range gap from mele to carbine range and would best be used in close combat situations, sudden or surprise combat situations or situations requiring a readily concealed ranged weapon.

What basic combat elements should they possess?

Pistoleers are like Han Solo. This is the character i envision as the consumate Pistoleer. They should be fast on the draw and deadly within a certain range. They can fire from ANY position, but are best when on their feet. They can still fire accurately when running, even when running AWAY from their target. They can engage targets at long range, but prefer shorter ranged encounters to maximize their hit percentage. A master Pistoleer should get 100% hits at 3M or less when not moving. They fire fast and thus have high firepower for the size of their weapon.

What offensive abilities?

The ability to call their shots hit areas with amazing accuracy and have a high percentage of making those hits. A pistol does not have a great knockdown capability, but the ability for precision hits should more than make up for it. Shooting should be instinctive at higher pistoleer levels, making the most deadly hits on an opponent virtually automatic at short ranges. The ability to fire from any position due to the compactness of their weapon (Han Solo vs Greedo in the Cantina). The ability to target multiple targets with accuracy would also be a learned skill at higher levels. He can start firing around 64M but will not attain real accuracy until 25M or less. Beyond 25M he is more of a nuisance unless he gets a lucky hit.

What defensive abilities?

A pistoleer is mobile and should be hard to hit due to that mobility. The ability to use ready cover should be an instinctive skill at higher levels. The ability to hit and run should make a pistoleer almost impossible to hit by those with more cumbersome weapons or fighting styles. The Pistoleer should be handicapped by armor, fighting at his best when not wearing any armor (Han Solo).

What unique abilities?

The ability to fire from any position at any target, uncanny accuracy at short range, the ability to call the target and virtually always hit it, instinctive use of cover and hit and run targeting including multiple targets. Automatically chosing the deadliest shots for an opponent at close range..

Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?

When teamed with carbineers or riflemen, the pistoleer has the ability to attract the tanks and fend them off while the longer range weapons do their job. When teamed with brawlers, he watches their backs and insures they are not overwhelmed by numbers. The pistoleer attracts targets but can hit and run to protect the rest of the group while remaining relatively unscathed, but he must stay close to the targets..

How could/should they interact with other professions?

The pistoleer is to the marksman with a pistol as Han Solo was to C3PO in combat. A marksman can use a pistol, but the Pistoleer makes the pistol a living extension of himself, until at master he is UNEQUALED in short range ranged weapon combat. If he can get close to a rifleman or carbineer he will win. He has a good chance of doing this due to his mobility.He can fend off a brawler, even a master with some ease due to his mobility.

What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?

He relies on the Weaponsmith for effective weapons. He relies on the longer ranged weapons to allow him to get into range for accurate combat. He needs cool clothes from a Tailor.

What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?

He is the enforcer. The foot soldier. The cannon fodder if you will. With light or no armor he flits about the battle field with speed and grace killing all who come into range. He can easily conceal his weapon and have it out quickly in a bar fight during a security check. He is the spy, the infiltrator, the thief and the scoundrel. In other words, he can play the part Han Solo played as far as a warrior goes.

The Devs seem to have intended Pistoleer as sort of a hybrid melee-ranged profession. With that, a gunfighter is fearless and intimidating, intimidated by nothing or no one. A pistoleer is devastatingly accurate on the move yet difficult to hit while moving. If a pistoleer is hit on the move, it is likely to be a glancing blow. At short range, I should be able to shoot you where I choose to shoot you. If I want you to dance, you dance. If I want to cap your knee, I cap your knee. If I want to put one right between your eyes or in the center of your chest... you get the idea. I may not be as accurate as a rifleman at long range, but I still have a weapon that can hit you. I already hit you hard physically and knock you over with my pistol if you get close to me, but as I advance with my pistol whipping skills, Ishould be able todo one of the following at random: knock you senseless, make you dizzy, stun you, blind you, and eventually I should even have a chance to knock you out cold.

Now, let me decode that paragraph to specific in-game suggestions:

1. A shot for pistoleers that places the "intimidation" stateon the target. Ideally, this shot should be more difficult to land as you go out in range.

2. Defense vs. Intimidate thatcompletely blows away that ofanyranged class, andis on par with orbetter than that of melee classes. Other defenses should reflect that the pistoleer is agile (no defense vs. blindness, higher defense vs. knockdown, etc.). Should be pretty simple.

3. Modify PistolWhip 2 (pistolmeleedefense2) to impose a random(or no) state on the target along with a knockdown with a successful hit. All possibilities should have equal chances.

4. A master level melee move, Pistol Whip 3, at which the pistoleer knocks down the opponent and chooses which state to inflict and has a small chance of immediate incapacitation.

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Thunderheart wrote:

What defines thePistoleerrole in combat?

Speed and Style. Pistoleers are the Fencers of Ranged Combat, and Fencers are the Pistoleers of Melee Combat. Of course, we dont want to just be a Ranged-clone of Fencers, but both classes should be defined as Speed and Style.

Pistoleers are also the polar-opposites of Rifleman. Rifleman are very slow (clunky almost due to the size of the Rifles) but very hard-hitting. A Rifleman can take you down in two or three well-placed shots. A Pistoleer requires 5 times that many shots, BUT should be able to take somebody down in the SAME amount of time due to how fast we are. We'll pump you full of blaster bolts before you can say "knife."

What basic combat elements should they possess?

Behind the back shots... just kidding

Basic combat elements? In essence, when you see a Master Gunfighter coming at you, the first thought in your brain should be "I've got 5 seconds to take him down before he unloads a storm of blaster bolts on my sorry butt" instead of "meh, he doesn't have Last Ditch so he's useless."

What offensive abilities?

First off, we need something better than Last Ditch. Personally, I don't think it makes any sense for the most powerful Pistol attack in the game to NOT be a Pistoleer attack. That's just silly.

Second, fix Multi-Target Shot, DisarmingShot (both 1 and 2), Pistol Melee Defense 2, and Double Tap (Double Tap isn't "broken" so much as... useless).

Third, due to the Pistoleer's speed you have to realize that means we're going to be using a LOT more special attacks than other combat professions, so we're going to run down our Action VERY fast. So, whatever you do, DON'T EVER raise our HAM costs or you'll kill us.

What defensive abilities?

I very much like Dodge, though it does need fixing, since Bleeds and other DoTs shouldn't still stick even when we've dodged the attack. When my Combat Log says "Some_Guy uses Chest Shot but you dodge out of the way" but then look up and see I'm bleeding, that's a problem.

I think Pistoleers, like all Melee Combatants, could use something similar to Center of Being (NOT CoB, but similar, read on). Unlike CoB, you wouldn't be allowed to keep using special attacks, but it would boost your Dodge skill mod by a LOT (at Master it would boost a LOT that is). In essence, the Pistoleer would pretty much stop fighting in order to concentrate on dodging some attacks. This would give him a chance to recover some of this Action, so he can let loose his next volly of attacks. I can see many good reasons to not implement this, but I thought I'd just throw it on the table.

What unique abilities?

I think we need more abilities like Multi-Target Pistol Shot, and how Fan Shot is described (hits a single target multiple times). Don't change Fan Shot, instead make Double Tap take over as the "hit single target multiple times" attack.

Also, please DO SOMETHING about the Republic Blaster!! It is (in general) the best Pistol in the game, but EVERYBODY has the Certification! That completely ruins takes away from the uniqueness of Pistoleers when Dancers, who don't even have Novice Marksman, are certified for the gun! The DX2... sucks, and it's supposed to be our defining weapon.

Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?

Combat should ensue as follows:

Rifleman - While everybody (Pistoleers, Carbineers, all Melee'ers, CH's, and all Medics) gets into position, the Rifleman should be using their long ranged, high-powered attacks, to deal some early damage and lay down cover-fire (not the attack Covering Fire necessarily). Once combat is in full-swing, Rifleman should be picking the strongest attacking enemy and helping to bring it down, since the RIfleman hits so hard he can have a large influence using only a few shots.

Carbineers - Crowd Control. Prevent enemies from heading after the Rifleman and Medics. Protect the Pistoleers and Melee'ers if they get in over their heads (we all know that us Pistoleers are insane and sometimes dive in when we shouldn't!). The Carbineer is middle of the road damage and speed, but good (not great, just good) from all ranges, so they're able to move back and forth easily.

Pistoleers - We're there to provide direct back-up for the Melee Combatants. We should not be very effective beyond 35m. Our role should also be that of Single-Enemy Control. When we get one enemy on us, we should be able to deal with it. I constantly find myself saying "Go help so-and-so, I'll take this one down." Carbineers can control a full crowd, but when it comes to taking control of individual enemies that's our job. If the Carbineer misses an enemy attacking the Rifleman, then call over the Pistoleer to take care of it. You don't want to drag one of the Tanking Melee'ers out of the fray. The Pistoleer should be able to take control of that enemy, and even lure it back towards the major area of conflict so that the Tanking Melee'ers can help attack it and so the Carbineers can include it in their Crowd Control. As I said before, we are the opposite of Rifleman, they take down individuals with their "one-shot, one-kill" attitude, and we take individuals down through speed and control.

Melee - Tanks. I won't get into the separation of Pikeman, Fencer, Swordsman, TKA, since this isn't the place for that.

How could/should they interact with other professions?

See above.

What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?

Still see above.

What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?

Pistols at dawn I'm not in a position to really answer this, since I quit PvP'ing when it changed from being a Battle into being tedious Street Brawls.

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