Development Cycle Archive

Thread: Jedi Punchlist Feedback

Bastilaa
Tue Jun 22, 2004 5:29 pm
#14

27. Overall skill point requirements need to either be reduced or one tree collapsed.



I understand your reasoning behind wanting to keep 5 trees but what we are seeing currently (this of course may change as you push out new code) are cookiee cutter Jedi. This of course to some degree defeats what you set out to achieve, whilst I hope all trees become very sort after I cant help feel that my current Jedi will get major handicaps in the new system.


Having come from a you must 'solo' mentality to be pushed into a group should be fun, but looking at the choices I'm being forced to make the fun aspect is currently missing. As the trees stand today I have to pick Master Lightsaber to get +100 Accuracy to even stand a small hope of hitting a 'temploiter' you say it will change but at +75 for Level 4 saber I really can't see the to-hit ratio improving that much.


Even relaxing the skill points from the 24 skill boxes would enable more diverse templates and even allow some force powers to be used in conjunction to a lightsaber, otherwise I do fear all you will see are Master Lightsaber/Master Enhancer/Heal 4004 Jedi running around



________________________________________________________________________________________________
Bastilaa - Carbineer/Pistoleer/Rifleman - Around for a bit
Otaewaiv - Jedi Knight - Unlocked Feb 10th 2004 - 0/197 Bounties Completed
Lothar:Adsertor - Undead Mage

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TickTock
Tue Jun 22, 2004 5:32 pm
#15





Quidlor wrote:
You want diversity in Jedi, yet you are not going to give robes resists? That single decision will cause much less diversity than giving us more skill points ever will. Without robe resists, you might as well make force armor2/defense tree required. Its that simple.





Pay attention to what he says.


The Jedi Development team is against balancing these combat features with the robes. We will work to balance resists to poisons/fire/etc.in a different manner and report back to you.


They are adding protections, but they are not doing it with robes. Maybe they want Jedi to make a fashion statement, but they didn't say they weren't going to. Just not with robes.

Dreamchant
Tue Jun 22, 2004 5:32 pm
#16






Bentos wrote:

We already have 80%ish composite, its called Master LS/Master Defender. If you want it, buy the skills. There is no way they can give us 80% built in composite plus another 90% is our robes.






Sure if your a Knight..... how are you supposed to get to Knight if you have to armor whatsoever ?



Dreamchant.....

Official Kettemoor Jedi Mistress
Champion of the N00b's
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Bentos
Tue Jun 22, 2004 5:37 pm
#17

Did you play on TC2 the first week with the 90% built in plus force armor? Remeber the 10-20 point saber hits? Remeber no one finishing a duel because they got bored of neverending fights? That was just with built in resists no robe. I certainly do not want to go back to neverending fights. So now you have a choice, Master Defender for Toughness (Best PvE build) or Enhancer for Force Armor(lots of toys, can PvE but lots of downtime).


Thanks to the ability to change templates on TC2 right now you can see this. Kill some NS with a Defender and then swap over to an Enhancer. You will notice the built in toughness like night and day. Defender gets hit for 125-150 a pop, Enhancer gets nailed for 200-350ish but has a massive Force drain.


Spellweavers were hitting for:

1000-1100 no saber equipped no Defender

500-600 Master saber no Defender

200-350 Master saber plus Force Armor on

125-150 Master saber Master Defender no Force Armor


Please when you dispute me and try to include numbers from testing today or in the future, vague descriptions like "gets hit harder" do nothing for anyone.





Bentos - Corbantis
Always Two there are... A Master, and an Apprentice...
Light Side Jedi Guardian Dark Side Jedi Initiate
osskno
Tue Jun 22, 2004 5:38 pm
#18






This is extremely unbalancing and not a viable course of action. However, meditating is part of what it means to be a Jedi and we are looking into adding meditation emotes for Jedi after this publish goes out.


How is making Meditation EXTREMELY unbalacing when all we asked was the same as TKA already have implemented. Especially since I can master TKA in a day, day and a half?


Example: melee accuracy, melee speed, Healing skills, assembly, healing speed....none of these affect Jedi skills at all yet we are forced to learn them.


Yes, they are. Basically, this is 20/20 hindsight and a by-product of the conversion. As a character moves through the Jedi process on a normal progression, Force Sensitivity skills are basic enhancements for “regular” characters to simulate Force Sensitivity. At that point, they are great to have. Once a character becomes a Jedi, they have already moved past those skills and in effect developed their Force powers from sensitivities into full blown powers. In essence, you have all moved past this point but everyone will have to go through this phase in the future.


I can see how they may be usefull getting to Padawan but being forced to waste 24 skill points that do nothing for our profession. I suggest two things,


1. Once we hit padawan we should be able to drop the FS trees, which would free up a few points for a few more skills which the jedi have been asking for.


2.You simply make it so those skill are usefull to jedi.


Jedi are not being designed to be the perfect solo character that can defend against all other classes. Jedi are not “scrappers” and by definition, Teras Kasi was developed specifically to fight Jedi at close range.This will be especially true when Jedi are given the ability to block ranged attacks back at their opponents. Melee attacks are something the Jedi should be wary of.


If jedi are not allowed to block melee (we wont go into sabers slicing off arms and body parts) then you should move the skill to hunt jedi from investigation 3 to Master BH. Otherwise we could get TKA or others with Inves 3 and able to kill us easily


Message Edited by osskno on 06-22-2004 05:39 PM

shagon
Tue Jun 22, 2004 5:38 pm
#19

On the daily maintenance fee required to maintain a rank. Giving each server has different volume of player and action when it comes to PvP action, why not change the daily maintenance based on # of PvP deaths on a server times Rank level as a %, adjusted as needed of course.


This is just an example actaully % would have to be adjusted.


Server 1 has 1000 PvP deaths, Player is rank 1 (10% of 1000 = 100) So maintaince would be 100
Server 2 had 100 PvP deaths, Player is rank 1 (10% of 100 = 10) So maintaince would be 10


This would keep all the server even based on the play and wouldn’t require any dev work with changes #'s on each server.
You could even do a weekly total and change it once a week.


Just an idea


tyrooAlien
Tue Jun 22, 2004 5:41 pm
#20


hi there really dont like the new jedi thing. I am not 1 of those winers or*** kissers that usualy poast on these jedi forms but i do thin i have an ideah for you to sorta make people shut up about how hard these jedi are to kill. Now take heed this is only a suggestion and i know no dev evers read this after they do there little 1st publish but heres what i was thinking. You should consider makeing a new profession that didnt cost too many skill points and what this profession would do was like give reg non jedi chars anti force powers or the ability to make anti force devices so that the jedi were semi normal char.'s or make a add on profession to the Bounty hunter called Imperial Force Hunter or Rebel Force Hunter depending on there faction and this skil would allow them to hunt jedi as there were semi normal characters. You know kind oflikehow the empire actually did itin thejedi series they hired such forces as the mandolarians like jango fett. It is a little known fact that mandolorians are semiforce resistant and were famed for there work with the sith in developing devices that dampened the force flow to a specific person or in a specific area. there are also creachers that they carried on there person or exracted fluids from that they use to imfect jedi or sith with that stopped them from being able to tap into the force. Also there are species of people that are immunt totally to the force such as the YUZAVHONG. As a word of advice to the Dev's you should go to this web site they have every book ever written pretaining to starwars might i suggest you pay very close attantion to the first few books on the list they detail and explain how the jedi and the sith empires fell and who caused there destruction and how they ee destroyed. And you can most certainly get every single one of these books because yall are backed by lucas arts and they have a few copies of each guarenteed. here is the site

http://www.freewebs.com/empirethrone/metroarea.html i hope this gives you all tons of ideas



.OH GOD JHONSON DID YOU SEE THAT THAT WOOKER WAS ON PCP! ! ! Quick sprinkle some crack on him and lets get outta here! -Chaos Dealers of BRIA -Chaos Dealers of BRIA - BRIA
GREATEST RAPPER IS DYLON CUZ HE SPIT THAT HOT FIRE~ ~ ~
Ko-aIri
Tue Jun 22, 2004 5:41 pm
#21

TH,

Thanks for taking the time to answer us about all this information. I have one remaining concern that I feel has not been addressed, relating to the robes.

I understand the problems with the hooded robes/backpacks... fine, I can live with it.

What I CAN'T live with (from an aesthetic point of view) is that at this time, regardless of the 31 robes you claim to exist, it would seem the breakdown is 15 light-side FRS robes, 15 dark-side FRS robes, and 1 Padawan robe.

The padawan robe, as we have all seen, is a very plain white tunic with brown boots. And, it is a virtual requirement to wear it, because of the bonus to regeneration and force pool.

Because of this, I am begging, pleading, whatever... can we PLEASE get a limited color palatte to adjust these robes to customize our character a bit?

My reasoning is based off the following: First of all, SWG has one of the most robust character customization systems of any MMORPG, or any game period. The fact that an Image Designer and Tailor profession exist speaks volumes about this. Forcing all entry-level Jedi and even those Jedi who never enter the FRS to look virtually identical is contrary to the system, considering Jedi is one of the main "end-game" content points we have at this time.

Secondly, as I mentioned above, many Jedi will not choose to enter the FRS even when "mastering" their skill points, and for any Jedi that does not convert over from 4/4/4/4 guardian, or future new Jedi, we have a long grind ahead of us staring at blaze-white pajamas.

Thirdly, in the movies, no "padawan" that I saw wore this pure white. Obi-Wan in Episode 1 had a more cream-colored tunic, and Anakin in Episode 2 had very dark padawan garb. Obviously, there is no "standard uniform" for padawans in SWG movies, why should there be in this game with its fantastic customization system?

So in conclusion, could we please have (ideally) a 3-part color palatte to choose a tunic color, pants color and boots color from a selection of white/tan/brown/grey/black? That way, we'd have a better variety of appearances while still staying within the "earth tones" that Jedi favored (no ridiculous colors are being requested) and we can feel more comfortable that are characters still retain a shred of uniqueness. Worst-case scenario, can we have a single color palatte that chooses from the white/tan/brown/grey/black that modifies the tunic/pants the same color and leaves the boots alone?

Thanks for trying to make this publish great, the fulfillment of this request (or good answer why this isn't do-able/allowable) would be the icing on the cake for me.



Ko-a Iri / Aosa Oto / Heston / Si'ro Eti
Twi'lek Creature Handler / Rodian Dark Jedi Knight / Human Bio-Engineer / Ithorian Shipwright
Dark Order Guildleader


Creature Handler Correspondent & Combat Upgrade Alpha Participant
...has been recognized as having an exceptional biography (Ko-a)
...has been recognized as an exceptional soldier in the war (Ko-a, Aosa)

shagon
Tue Jun 22, 2004 5:42 pm
#22


Canyou please address the issues of G-4444 not being giving Rank 0?


In Jedi Archives 1 you said all G-4444 were considered master. Yet to get to the Jedi master you need a FR Rank of 9. Don’t see you giving this to us.


In Jedi Archives 2 you said the follow:


Once a player has dedicated all of their skill points to their Force skills they will be able to begin the Jedi Knight Trials. There will be two quest series to choose from, one for the Light Side and one for the Dark Side. Completion of the Trials will give the Jedi a Force Rank of zero as well as a new robe and will allow them to begin the progress through the Jedi Ranks to become one of the most powerful Light Jedi or Dark Jedi in the game. This is the end of the Jedi PvE advancement series. A Jedi may choose to remain here if they wish. Existing 4-4-4-4 Guardians will begin the game where this path ends.


This to me means we should giving Rank 0 to start. So why do all the G-4444 after long months of grinding on the old system, and then waiting around 3-6 months for revamp, have to now spend another 2-6 weeks camping and running around to do Knight Trials.

EvoBeck
Tue Jun 22, 2004 5:42 pm
#23







Thunderheart wrote:


The Jedi Correspondent has distilled a lot of the feedback and produced a Punchlist.The team thought it was a pretty good list and I liked the community mechanics, so between now and the publish; we will update you on this Punchlist.



Please post your Feedback!



If you can, please include in the header of your post which category your feedback pertains to such as:



  • Jedi Powers

  • Crystal Drop Rates


  • Jedi and Combat

  • Lightsaber Crafting

  • Jedi Conversion Process

  • Etc.

Thanks very much







Thunderheart,


This is a response to question #27, about the ablility to learn more skill boxes than we can today.


While I agree or concede to most the other responses, this response bothers me a bit. Your answer to this question directly contradicts how it is actually coded. The limitation of skills in entirely homoginizing the profession. EVERYONE will be taking the basic same template. I guarantee 95% of jedi will have at least 2 lines of lightsaber, and 2 lines of healing. Also most likely the template will include 2 lines of enhance at least. This only leaves 2 -3 lines of distinction between jedi, which is very homoginized and unfun.


The other point that bothers me is that you did NOT add depth and choice to the profession. In fact very few skills were added. Most you just added a level 3 skill on top of some, and split up the rest. The fact is that a normal non-jedi template can add more diversity than jedi do. A master doctor/TKM would essentially have master saber/master defense/master healer.


While everyone would like to dabble in some force power or try a bit from all the lines it is not at all possible, especially with the cost of novice boxes, which in and of themselves offer no benefits. The skill point system completely discourages dabbling, because a dabbler in 4 of the trees is very limited in the amount of high level boxes they can take. What now happens is everyone is forced to take a template that allows them to be viable in pvp which is their only end game. After they have done this, they have 0 skill points left for anything else.


Allowing us to learn 2 more full lines, would enhance the profession a lot more, and allow people to have some nice skills / abilities that may not just be about thebest way to pvp. Most people would like to have force run and meditate but will not take them if they feel defense is better to have.


I feel if the current system stays intact, you may as well take out the force power line, because virtually no one will have it. Please go to the enclave and start asking people what their template is. Just count how many people are now master saber/master enhance/4004 healing. IT would be in the entire development teams best interest to do a poll or count, and to see just how uniform all jedi are now with these restrictions.




Message Edited by EvoBeck on 06-22-2004 07:46 PM



Beck - Bloodfin
Yuno
Tue Jun 22, 2004 5:43 pm
#24

are you completely nuts ?


sorry but everybody was hoping to get "fun" with this publish... and all you give us is disappointment over disapointment....

every single day and every new post by a dev makes it even worse


no this isnt fun... this is pure nerfage for all jedis


yea make us completely gimp please...



another good idea: could you please take away our lightsabers ?

i mean: lightsabers are too much fun... it seems that got no place in jedi class




sorry but im missing words........... cant understand whats going on in your heads......



(gggggggggggggggWnxnn[[YUN[]nnxnXggggggggggggggg)

-[ALT Yuno]-
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shagon
Tue Jun 22, 2004 5:45 pm
#25

Expermentation should make more difference than 3 or 4 pts to force power, or 5 or 6 pts to dmg. Its pointless right now.


Why are saber being reduce to a dmg lower than current weapons in the game. IE the LLC the MBH on TC2 get are doing 1000-1300 in pvp and saber wont go above 600-800 on avg.


How much increase in saber dmg are we going to see on Live untill combat revamp is done?

TickTock
Tue Jun 22, 2004 5:45 pm
#26


A few issues:


Since someone brought up the longstanding issue of states going through block, I'll bring up another. Non-targeted enemies who aren't fighting caught in an area attack won't take damage. Since that sounds confusing, an example. I wander on up to a bunch of Quenkers(or whatever). I open my attack with lightningcone2 and catch all of them. Only one will take damage, but all will start attacking me. This makes opening with a cone attack very bad, and greatly reduces the effectiveness of all cone attacks in the game, especially with enemy's tendency to surround you. This bug affects everyone who an area attack.


Regarding powers:

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by viable but not equal. How I read this is the tree will remain substandard and there is little impetus to improve it? Or, do you mean to make the tree equal, but not identical. Which would make much more sense to me. Powers should be just as effective(albeit in different ways), as lightsaber. That does not mean it should be identical, not by any means. But it should be "equal", so that players must think about what they would prefer to do and how it would best fit in with their other skills. The problem with Powers is NOT that it is worthless. Recent changes have fixed that to a degree. The problem with Powers is that anything powers can do, lightsaber can do better(almost). Where Powers has the slow and costly FKD, saber has the fast will be relatively cheap saberthrow2. Where Powers has the resistable and slower lightning, sabers have the fast, cheap, and unresistable saber moves. Where Powers has mindblast, sabers has the faster and cheaper Dervish(or other such moves). Now, some of this could change with the speed differences in the combat revamp, but the bottom line is that anything Powers can do, Sabers can do it better. Whether that be faster, more damaging, or simply for less force.


I and many others would prefer equal but not identical, rather than viable but not equal.

Message Edited by TickTock on 06-22-2004 07:47 PM

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