Development Cycle Archive
Thread: IC 1-8: Combat Roles; Marksman
Overall, I think Marksman profession works fine. It combines all the basic ranged weapons and adds some general combat specials. However, I think when it comes do PvP, Master Marksman gets "owned" way too easy. The answer, IMO, should be in the Master skill-box. Since the skill already provides Overcharge 2 and several skill mods, the answer might be a newweapon:
What defines theMarksmanrole in combat? Range fighter, capable of wielding all basic ranged weapons
What unique abilities? a unique weapon at a Master skill box:
a) This could be a weapon that combines a little bit of all three basic marksman skills - fast as a pistol, powerful as a carabine, and with long range reach like a rifle. Of course, the HAM costs should be high, to offset the "perfectness" of this weapon. The one weapon that come to mind, is the Repeater Blaster from Dark Forces PC game series - it was fast, accurate, and had a nice range.
or b) Since the weapons are to be revamped, may be Master skill box will simply offer a different level of weapons.
Should add what advantage or asset in group combat? ability to switch from weapon to weapon, complementing elite classes, or fullfilling a missing role. For example, a marskman can use a rifle if there is no rifleman in the group,andwhen the enemy comes closer, a marksman can quickly switch to pistols to help out the pistol-wielding majority in a group.
What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War? Should be the Jack-of-all-Trades when it comes to basic ranged weapons.
Whereas master brawler receives a number of extremely useful abilities (Warcry 2, Intimidate 2, increased toughness, etc.), master marksman just receives a few skill bonuses and Overcharge Shot 2, which while nothing to sneeze at is essentially made useless as people move into the specialized weapon professions. A master marksman should pick up skills that will be useful even if he continues on into specialized professions, such as:
* A blanket ranged accuracy while moving bonus
* The ability to target any of the three pools with any ranged weapon (of course not for as much damage as the specific pool attacks from the elite profs)
* Faster aim time
* Some sort of HAM cost ability that gives a short-term increase in speed and accuracy (and maybe even lowers the speed cap by a tenth of a second or something, to keep it useful for pistoleers)
Right now master marksman is little more than a speedbump on the way to commando and bounty hunter. It should have its own character and offer something than makes it more than a prerequisite.
Aside from the master box, the various trees of marksman are fine and do not need any sort of balancing or tweaking.
DuckMaestro wrote:TAB-targetting is another thing that ruins combat immersion (though i understand at the benefit of easier to play, but i think there is room for balance...)...
I find myself TAB, TAB,TABing all the time now and its not that fun compared to if i could actually recon the area and try to find an enemy who is hiding. Right now that is not possible in this game but i think it should be... change things to the following....
1. Opaque terrain (as i said above).
2. TAB only aquires new targets if there is a current Line Of Sight to that target, i.e. if you cant see the opponent on your screen from where you are, then you cant target it.
3. Number 2 would give a much better purpose for radar... if you cant use TAB-targeting to find a nearby enemy, then you would fall back to checking your radar to get a rough idea of where your opponent is. (see my radar ideas..... but i am leaning more towards removing the factional radar idea and instead using the Forward-Good/Read-Poor idea of radar, to encourage watching your back).
4. If the player does have a LOS towards his target, make tabbing dependant on the stealth status (see my above post). In other words if the opponent is prone in thick grass and not easily seen as rendered on the player's screen then thatopponent would not be TAB-Targetable until the player gets closer to the opponent.
if those changes went into the game, the following very fun and very adrenaline pumping scenario could happen....
imagine anchorhead... lots of rebels busy with their business of buying, selling, killing..... the overts cant depend on tab-targetting or radar-waiting all from the bridge and shuttleport anymore... if they are concerned for the city's safty, they go on patrol around the town (like a real soldier would, instead of camping the radar or tab-key). However, theres been an imperial PC spy in anchoread waiting for a vulnerability..... the rebels get tired of patrolling the city so they head into the cantina to chill...... the spy sends word.... the nearby imperal attack team slowly moves in on the north hill.... they are in prone mode, crawling towards the crest of the hill..... nobody can see them on radar (because of prone stealth and they are faded a bit on the RADAR (see my radar post above)) and nobody can TAB-target them because they are out of site..... they are in prone and very vulnerable if caught... they continue to cautiosly crawl towards the crest, still not seen until they finally reach the crest..... an overtrebel then casually comes out of the cantina and procedes to check out a mission terminal but after a moment he realizes there are imperial snipers on the north hill but it is too late... they fire on him and he's down to half health and the medium and close range attackers procede into the city. ....... But wait.... there were other rebels at the regular mission termainsl in the north-east side of anchorhead but the raiding imperials didnt pay attention to the radar and didnt know they were there, neither did the rebels know of the imperials..... they were TAB-Targetting all over the place (because they couldnt without LOS) so it was a suprise to both of them.... the rebels from the north-east then counter the imperial close range troops and the battle continues. ..... With LOS depending TAB-Targetting...... some other hidden troops could rush the back way running passed the walls but the rebels would not be able to target them and know 100% exactly where they are at every moment... instead the rebels much use radar to give them a rough idea but then some others might be in prone and hiding near rocks for stealth bonuses.
The battle goes on..... bottom line.... combat would be much more fun if it wasnt babied, watered-down and handed to everybodyon a silver platter.... people would need to be more aware and *think* instead of relying on Tab-Targeting or radar.
-duck
o my god i thought that we needed something and this would be really nice =)
i mean this would kick a**
btw i have a question: why does a bh need all of marksman?
i understand pistol carbine and support which correspond with pistol carbine and llc for bh but why do we need rifles if we dont get them for bh? just a thought but may help with the bh skill points cost
What defines theRiflemanrole in combat?
What basic combat elements should they possess?
The rifleman should be based more off the snipers currently in service in the U.S. or U.K. militaries of today. They should be able to sneak into an effective sniping range, one shot one kill and sneak out. Right now it appears that they are more of a cross between a machine gunner and a (so-so) sniper. If a rifleman is to be a true "rifleman" like soldiers of today, then their melee abilities need to be pumped a little. Otherwise they need to be crafted more into a sniper.
What offensive abilities?
RANGE RANGE RANGE! Current weapons are firing too close! A modern sniper could fire from several kilometers as a maximum range. Possibly creating several sniper oriented rifles could easily fix this. Plus these rifles should be relatively faster in firing with higher power, their downside would be tremendous penalties for firing at a less than ideal range (i.e. close range). Currently I am using a laser rifle and it sucks that I can get run down by mobs or I get in place for a kill and the mobs can easily run out of my range. Even a rifle that shoots at around 128km would be superior in this respect, because then you could easily get in range so that mobs that pace (i.e. Imperial Troopers on Patrol) would still be in an ideal range and not walk out of it at the first hit. Another idea is a shot that immobilizes or "freezes" a target in place, or even forces the enemy to a prone/kneeling position. Snipers cause confusion because they are well concealed and many times can decimate units before being discovered (if at all).
What defensive abilities?
Currently the defensive abilities are adequate enough. I would like to see more bonuses in the realm of concealment and hiding.
What unique abilities?
Modern snipers use cover and camouflage to sneak up on enemies, at longer than usual range they emplace weapons and prepare to kill their target. I think for PVP combat if the rifleman was outside the range of normal Player detection it would aid the class.
Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
Riflemen should have a slightly enlarged field of vision, in group combat there should be some skill allows the rifleman to paint targets outside other profession's field of view. This would give melee and shorter ranged marksmen a "heads up" on what lies ahead.
In group combat against lairs Riflemen should have specific bonuses against the lair itself. Other players could then attack the creatures while the rifleman takes out the lair itself.
How could/should they interact with other professions?
Riflemen as snipers are generally soloists, but interacting with weaponsmiths, armorsmiths, doctors and entertainers are normal as they are combatants as well. In groups the rifleman is the eagle eye that picks off targets while his or her comrades are the main thrust of any attack, they are support units attacking the enemy general or pack leader that the group is attacking.
