Development Cycle Archive
Thread: In Concept 1-2: Combat Roles; Brawler
"Personally, I think the TKA med line should be moved to master brawler, with bonuses to these skills at the top of EACH master profession. So, you get basic meditation at novice brawler, but you don't the meat and potato skills like power boost, cures, force of will etc. until master. Upon mastering a melee weapon, you get enhancements to these capabilities."
that.... that is something i agree with also.... i think brawler should get the ability to focus on their weapons and on their inner strength.....
Master brawlers should be better damage sinks when fighting melee classes than someone who just has an elite line because of their experience across all fields and their innate toughness, they should have more variety in their attacks maybe and possess better cross-spectrum specials (like warcry and intimidate), but I don't feel there should be elite-specific attacks in the master brawler box because it's not a specialist profession.
Crowd control. Thats what my brawler skills do in the group, lunge stops things from eating the rifleman, warcry stops everything and melee grabs lots of agro on to me thus making the medic's job easier.
What basic combat elements should they possess?
lunge 1 and 2 are essential, the area of effect attacks are great.
What offensive abilities?
hmmm, hitting things
. Good damage and utility with intimidate, KD, dizzy, bleeds etc.What defensive abilities?
Be nice to see mitigation in master brawler, certainly brawlers should be strong against melee attacks, its not requried to be strong against ranged attacks, if we have a weakness that should be it.
What unique abilities?
I'd like to see a variation on warcry allowing either single target or point blank AoE for both warcry 1 and 2 - make the single target version go off more reliable and the Pont blank AoE cost more than the current one.
Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
Long duration state effects.
How could/should they interact with other professions?
Highly reliant on BE, tailor, medic, doctor, armoursmith and weaponsmith. A brawler is unlikely to have skill points for this stuff as its a pretty dedicated field.
What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?
I see brawler as a utility group member, debuffing targets and doing crowd control. If I'm grouped with a bunch of riflemen then I could pretend to be a swordsman for the day but in practice I'm likely to be a fencer or TK - maybe if I'm not out for exp I'd make the kill group super efficient by pulling out a big sword. Its an option for a master brawler (though how many sliced weapons can I get away with carrying arround).
What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?
Brawler is pretty straight forward in combat terms but perhapse (I'm clutching at straws here) some bases could have physical barriers that need lifting by strong person or some (dangerous) NPC has to be kept alive while the group achieves something, the brawler could KD, warcry, intimidate, stun etc. and tank him for ages.
The Brawler trees are all fine. What i would like to see in the Master Brawler box is a faster movement rate to catch up to Ranged users, even only if it's 10% movement bonus. After all, you've learned how to fight with lots of different weapons, you should be able to run with them all knowing how they fit in your hand(s) when you do so.
The Lunatic Fringer Writes:
The brawler seems to be one of the most abused novice professions to this gamer. All I mean by this is that we are not really given a good solid reason to pursue Master Brawler. It doesn't go on to stim to any other profession and really it should.
I'm going to go ahead and bring up an issue that has puzzled be with all the brawler related professions too. Has anyone noticed that some *specials* are better at level two than they are at level three when used. I know there are very few of them, but this still seems a little broken to me. Why work so hard to get that level three skill just to have it not work better, in fact worse, than my level two skills. I really hope this isn't just me too. I've come to this conclussion after many hours of gameplay and talking with friends and other gamers in game.
Now then, where should the Master Brawler stim? This seems like the most relavant question for me to answer since I'm bringing it up. I'm inclined here to say that the Master Brawler should be an *alternative* option Mastery for other professions. Maybe a Backwater bounty hunter grew up on a planet without blasters... thus give the Bounty Hunter the *option of either or* Mastering Brawler or Marksman to achieve novice. Same for Commando possibly.
My only real gripe with the profession is that. And maybe by making the profession an open ended alternative mastery for pursuing other elite classes; more people would be encouraged to pursue it and try something at least a little different from what their used to.
Thoughts?
Sincerely
The Lunatic Fringer
"A lunatic thinks outside of a box and lives in one..." --The Boss
What defines theBrawlerrole in combat?
Currently, the brawler has no defined role in combat, as things are set up right now. Because the brawler profession is composed of 4 different styles of combat, it has no "individual feel" of its own. The brawler can run around fighting in one of 4 different ways, each of which is highly ineffectual in comparison to the elite professions. Much like the marksman, the brawler is just a stepping stone to reaching the elite professions. Personally, I feel that this equates to the same thing as having no realistic role in combat, making it, like the marksman, one of the basic professions that has very little use in and of itself, unlike other basic professions, such as artisan or medic.
However,if you don't mind doing low to medium damage per hit, the master brawler can do much in terms of causing state effects, as long as they are willing to switch weapons often. They can stun, blind, dizzy and even attack multiple targetswithin melee rangeat one time. They can make called shots to body, mind or legs. They also can use the improved versions of intimidate, warcry and beserk. As stated however, the damage output of even a master brawler is considerably lower than that of any of the elite combat professions, which is the major weak point of the profession. A semi-serious weak point is the requirement of switching weapons (and thus having to buy and maintain them as well) in order to achieve some of the desired state effects. This makes it harder for people to desire to become a master brawler in the first place.
So, if I were to define a "role" in combat for a master brawler (who has no elite combat skills to back it up), I would say that the master brawler's job is to mix it up at melee range and apply as many state effects as possible, while the rest of the team provides support in terms of damage and healing.
What basic combat elements should they possess?
The brawler posesses almost all of the basic combat elements they could need, almost. Their huge variety of state effects (given you weapon switch often) can be very useful. However, their state effects are of the basic variety, which any elite combat profession can surpass with ease. The damage output of the master brawler is seriously in need of an overhaul, however.
I feel that at master brawler, and master only, there should be one extra attack of each type (unarmed, one-handed, etc.) that is a second-level "hit" attack, then ones that are currently reserved right now only for the elite professions. For instance, /melee2hHit2 is not available to anybody but the Swordsman right now. I feel that the master brawler, having achieved a great deal of mastery, should have a good knowledge of the "basics" of these other professions, and this attack is the most basic of the swordsman variety. Therefore, the master brawler should have this and the other three "basic" attacks at their disposal. This would solve any and all damage problems for the master brawler, and give a reason to reach (and keep) mastery in the first place.
What offensive abilities?
Other than what I stated above for the master brawler, I feel the only offensive ability needed for the brawler (in addition to what it already has) is some sort of "unarmed" weapon that will increase the damage output as you progress up the tree, like the other three trees have available to them. For instance, as you go up the two-handed weapons tree, you can switch from weapon to weapon to increase your damage as you go. The unarmed tree has no such option, currently, and the damage increase from the attacks you gain is minimal. Going from 50 to 200 damage is sad, and means that getting experience for the unarmed tree takes at least as long as it did to get experience in the other three trees (at least, it did in my experience). So, if you could put in other "unarmed" weapons in the game besides the vibro knuckler (which you don't get certified for until you're a novice TKA anyway), that would be a great addition. For instance, some sort of "power glove" (that delivers more kinetic or blast damage) or "shock glove" (that delivers electrical damage) or even brass knuckles would be nice.
What defensive abilities?
Much like I mentioned about the master brawler needing to do more damage, I feel that the master brawler also deserves to have melee mitigation 1, the basic damage reduction ability of all the elite trees. I really don't feel this imbalances the game at all, and will entice more people into thinking about master brawler as a viable alternative profession.
What unique abilities?
Other than what I've mentioned above, Ifeel the master brawler already has all the unique abilities they need.
Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
The advantage of having a master brawler in the group is that you can have a jack-of-all-trades available should you need a specific ability, such as someone to do a blinding attack. Another advantage is that the master brawler can warcry the enemy, leaving them standing there for 20 seconds while the group pounds them in total safety.
How could/should they interact with other professions?
They should have all the same interactions with other professions that any combatant would need. They need supplies, healing and combat backup just like any other combatant. Nothing new here.
What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?
Damage. Since they can't realistically put out damage by themselves, they need help from their group members. However, it should be noted that many groups will refuse to allow a "mere" master brawler to join them, since their damage output is considered a serious liability in combat. At any rate, since they have no damage mitigation, they'll also need serious support from medics, combat medics and doctors in order to survive.
What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?
They don't have one, and they really shouldn't, since this is more of a catch-all melee profession.
Specials should be statuseffects.
Thunderheart wrote:
Given the basic considerations listed above, please answer the following questions:
What defines theBrawlerrole in combat? **Being willing to get down and dirty on the front line, the brawler wades into battle without hesitation , to occupy the Big Bad, or engage the enemy in melee, keeping his support ( medics, riflemen etc ) safe while threatening to break through the enemy lines and engage the enemy medics , ranged support. I think of the football line with the Brawlers being thetackles trying to sack the quarterback or block the tacklers....
What basic combat elements should they possess?To hit their opponents with Specials to reduce their ability to damage, accuracy, morale, etc.To knock them down hard and dirty, they are the penultimate boxing, streetsmart fighter - the are the first line of defense , the grunts.
What offensive abilities?Targetting specific pools, body hits, leg hits, head shots, to daze and disorient their enemies and intimidate them into thinking that engaging this particular brawler was a mistake
What defensive abilities?The abilitiy to shrug off some superficial blows, ignore damage, soak damage.
What unique abilities?Warcry!! And Im not just saying that because it is my last Wookiee bonus of any value * wink * * wink *.
Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?A group should benefit from having a brawler in their group as a veteran melee specialist that is needed to protect their vulnerable areas ( their ranged support, their doctors, their commandos that are firing rockets , etc. )
How could/should they interact with other professions?Other profession value their addition because they get time to do their job more effectively. Docs rezzing, slicers slicing base terminals, etc.
What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?Brawlers need docs for heals and buffs, they need armorsmith for protection and the finest melee weapons available.
What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?Master Brawler should enhance the Elite Brawler to the extent that One would not even consider being a Pikeman, Fencer, Swordsman, TKA, without first mastering the Brawler profession, a smattering of training on *all* the melee weapons makes this foe dangerous indeed, engaging a Master Brawler should give pause to other combatants , even the TKA.
**disclaimer** unless of course, the Master Brawler is a wookiee, then you just shoot him in the mind pool with head shot2 or eyeshot and bam! hes down before he gets off a warcry...***
Sorry TH, you know I had to throw that in there somewhere!
The Brawler is my favorite class and I have been everything in the game from Weaponsmith to Image Designer to Ranger. No, Im not a jedi yet.....
Request For Comments:
The community is invited to make commentsthrough April. At that time, the thread will be closed to further comments. Feel free to comment on any or all of the above items. Please stay on topic.
Initially I think the Brawler is a little bit of a broken profession.
There is little, or no, incentive for one to actually Master it save for if your doing last minute holo grinding right now.
I say this mainly because Master Brawler doesn't go anywhere and all the related professions can be done by simply going up the one tier of skills one needs to get to the Elite class of that tier, which ever one it is.
I'd propose a fix to this in how Brawler fits in with the rest of the Galaxy. To be honest, with exception to the Smuggler, this player believes that Master Brawler should be remade a pre-requisate of all the Elite *related* brawler professions.
The Lunatic Fringer