Development Cycle Archive
Thread: The Path of the Jedi: Reckoning of Effort
NewHopeFan
Sat Sep 04, 2004 2:39 pm
#2445
I think they are thinking of the average player! To prove this i have finally figured out what improved server stability means ........ Less People online playing because they have quit the game and found a new one !!!!!
Jasynn
Sat Sep 04, 2004 2:51 pm
#2446
THEY ARE LIARS!
They said we would get credit for our HOLO efforts. They didn't say..."some of the HOLOGRINGERS will get credit", or "You have to unlock 4 professions before you get credit". Every time I turn around I find something new to get pissed off about. I quit grinding when they anounced the new upcoming system and that we would be rewarded for our efforts, since I never liked having to do professions that didn't interest me. I just played my own profession. I unlocked a total of2 professions. You know what I got for it? I got to wait longer than noobs to get my visit from the old man. I got no credit for my unlocked professions. I got a longer grind ahead of me to even see padawan, let alone jedi. That's it. It sux.
Tell me again why I pay money every month to be lied to and screwed over. Customer service? What a joke! The better hope that the game starts attracting new...never-before...players, because every time they open their mouths they alienate an ever growing number of long term payers [players].
Jasynn
Sat Sep 04, 2004 2:53 pm
#2447
They better fix the 'no credit for unlocked professions' FAST, or I will quit for real. No more threats. I don't think I am alone.
soggybottoms
Sat Sep 04, 2004 3:19 pm
#2448
Quit the game you say, Humm. Today i actually seen two oddities that make me think this new system is screwy. One a 32 Profession Wookie with more badges than i cared to count, He was glowing and deservied it, why you ask..? Welp in order to aquire that many profession means that they have been working the system for a rather long time and that they have devoted many many hours to achive there FSS.....to that player I say grats. Secondly, I witnessed a Jedi with 3 Badges yes 3, 1 (one) POI and 2 professions, not a Padi a Jedi............ It does tick off us Day 1 players and it does so alot.
About the time frame of the game and its compatibility to the movie, I say this, when they created the box that the wonderful CD's came in they should of added a disclaimer on the side stating:
Only after a period of time, random events, multiple patchs and some good old fashion luck you may or may not become a Jedi in this Game. Yes we realize that the only reason 90% of our subscribers purhcased this game is to role play a Jedi or to break stuff using the force, We cannot guarntee that you will become Jedi. You will have to spend countless hoursdoing someverry trivial things repetively, and waste many many hours doing so, but we still cantsay that you will or will not become a Jedi, and according to theLicence that you must click each time to actually play the game there is no way that wecan say that you will or will not become a Jedi. With this said it will be 29.99 before tax and 12.99 per month Prices may be changed without warring.
Blah.......(sorry no spell check today)
Just another player since July 2003.
silandril
Sat Sep 04, 2004 3:35 pm
#2449
Thunderheart, Sony, Dev's, CSRs, God, Zeus, Whomever:
I like many others did the hologrind. Hologrinding of course made me feel like SWG was a second job instead of a game. Therefore, after mastering 11 professions and nearly mastering others. I quit the game and closed my account.
...A couple of months later...
I return to SWG. In order to avoid the same burnout/second job situation all over again, I create a new character (on the same server/account) that I like and forget about grinding. So happens I took to acquiring badges and seeing the universe.
...Along comes Publish 10. Woot! A Quest-based system which I immediately qualify for ... and ... holocredit! .... RIGHT?!?
WRONG. No holocredit since it was an older character says CSR-whatever-the-name-was.
I'm like, okay... I can deal...I think. Its a quest-based system now... Then I complete one of the quests and examine the tree and conversion info. *double-click* Up comes Excel. Lets do some math...
!!OMFG!!
114,750,000 experience points ( 1/30 Weapon Xp + 1/3 Weapon Xp ) just to get the initial 6 branches!
I'll come work for you people and show you a quest based system. Thats not it! Matter of fact thats the equivalent of grinding out TKA 32.55 times! Which is an oddly familiar number..."32". Aren't there 32 professions in the game. Yeah, but then they don't all require the same amount of xp as an advanced prof. So actually its the equivalent of grinding out well over the 32 professions I would have had to do before. Oh, and some piddly quests _and_ waiting for village rotation.
1. I'd really appreciate some holocredit as I've not the enthusiasm of a newbie.
2. Quest System. A great idea. Poorly implemented in my opinion.
Surely another means of Jedi Population control could have been found. I'm not going to threaten my piddly little 15 bucks as it represents only a drop in the bucket. However, swapping a little mystery for a guaranteed 32+ prof grind is not a good solution, not for your player community or your business.
Xanzu / Lowca
I like many others did the hologrind. Hologrinding of course made me feel like SWG was a second job instead of a game. Therefore, after mastering 11 professions and nearly mastering others. I quit the game and closed my account.
...A couple of months later...
I return to SWG. In order to avoid the same burnout/second job situation all over again, I create a new character (on the same server/account) that I like and forget about grinding. So happens I took to acquiring badges and seeing the universe.
...Along comes Publish 10. Woot! A Quest-based system which I immediately qualify for ... and ... holocredit! .... RIGHT?!?
WRONG. No holocredit since it was an older character says CSR-whatever-the-name-was.
I'm like, okay... I can deal...I think. Its a quest-based system now... Then I complete one of the quests and examine the tree and conversion info. *double-click* Up comes Excel. Lets do some math...
!!OMFG!!
114,750,000 experience points ( 1/30 Weapon Xp + 1/3 Weapon Xp ) just to get the initial 6 branches!
I'll come work for you people and show you a quest based system. Thats not it! Matter of fact thats the equivalent of grinding out TKA 32.55 times! Which is an oddly familiar number..."32". Aren't there 32 professions in the game. Yeah, but then they don't all require the same amount of xp as an advanced prof. So actually its the equivalent of grinding out well over the 32 professions I would have had to do before. Oh, and some piddly quests _and_ waiting for village rotation.
1. I'd really appreciate some holocredit as I've not the enthusiasm of a newbie.
2. Quest System. A great idea. Poorly implemented in my opinion.
Surely another means of Jedi Population control could have been found. I'm not going to threaten my piddly little 15 bucks as it represents only a drop in the bucket. However, swapping a little mystery for a guaranteed 32+ prof grind is not a good solution, not for your player community or your business.
Xanzu / Lowca
Dagrin
Sat Sep 04, 2004 3:40 pm
#2450
You know what I find really funny? It never occurs to these people that making casual gamers happy is more important than focusing on the hardcore super grinders. Think about it, a casual gamer spends 1/10th or less of the time a hardcore player does on-lineand therefore costs the company less to support, and yet SOE still gets the full monthly fee from both.
The reason casual gamers leave: Not receiving enough in-game progress for their efforts
The reason Hardcore gamers leave: completetion of all available content leading to burnout
The hardcore problem will happen regardless of the amount meaningless effort it requires to get there. While you might loose hardcore gamers faster by catering to the casual gamer, they are enough of a drain on the system that they are probably worth loosing anyway.
I like the idea of the FS skills, I myself was not focused on becoming a Jedi, but rather just a little force attunded. But honestly, the effort to obtain theselimitedvalue skill boxes is absurd.
Dagrin
Sat Sep 04, 2004 3:50 pm
#2451
silandril wrote:
Surely another means of Jedi Population control could have been found.
Of course you're right, but the Devs backed down long ago on doing so. To be honest, I much prefered the ORIGINAL concept for Jedi. Premadeath. It's not about making it hard to become a Jedi (which it should be a challange, but this way beyond that) it's about making the life of a Jedi an aquired taste.
If properly implemented permadeath can allow a system where the bar can be set so a casual gamer can feel free to try the Jedi life, but may not find the risk/reward worth the time. The Jedi population stays low or at least out of sight therefore holding true to the real material.
SpikerRikeps
Sat Sep 04, 2004 4:16 pm
#2452
new system is crap i did 14 profs and only one holo because my second was armoursmith and the new system was coming out i didnt bother,
Stil i expected some sort of rewards and i got absolutly feck all. YET someone who can do 9 profs unlock 3 branches.
How u can think this is fair is beyond me
Aki44
Sat Sep 04, 2004 4:19 pm
#2453
A comment from the dev team on the issue of the unfair reward would be greatly appreciated
silandril
Sat Sep 04, 2004 4:50 pm
#2454
Apparently you didn't read my entire post ( section recapped below ):
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
114,750,000 experience points ( 1/30 Weapon Xp + 1/3 Weapon Xp ) just to get the initial 6 branches!
I'll come work for you people and show you a quest based system. Thats not it! Matter of fact thats the equivalent of grinding out TKA 32.55 times! Which is an oddly familiar number..."32". Aren't there 32 professions in the game. Yeah, but then they don't all require the same amount of xp as an advanced prof. So actually its the equivalent of grinding out well over the 32 professions I would have had to do before. Oh, and some piddly quests _and_ waiting for village rotation.
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
114,750,000 xp pts is the equivalent of mastering more than 32 ADVANCED professions. To state that this is not as bad as the original system is irrational..AND...it doesn't even leave you at the same place you'd have been if you simply unlocked under the old system.
Let me put it in list form:
1. 114,750,000 xp = More than mastering 32 Advanced Professions
2. Quests to qualify for the Intro Quests
3. Into Quests
4. 6 Branch Quests ( which will require approx 18 weeks simply to unlock ).
5. Exit Quest
Add all that up and compare it to the old system. The new systems is a far greater Grind Fest.
You say "yeah but you get to keep the character you want while persuing Jedi". Thats a load of bung, because:
CONVERSION RATES ARE NOT THE SAME = Which means people will become certain professions in order to maximize there Jedi Experience. Let me illustrate, my goal being to grind Jedi as fast as possible.
1. Be a smuggler with Underworld IV so I can buy faction. Faction can be converted to Combat Xp. Which in turn can be converted to Jedi Exp at a rate of 1 to 3. Bascially this gives me a means to convert Credits to Jedi Xp.
2. Now I need a way to aquire Jedi Exp while I'm not online. Merchant Xp. Need as many vendors to run as possible. Also I should take up Entertainer for botting as well.
At this point I've become a Marksman/Smuggler/Artisan/Merchant/Entertainer in my efforts to maximize Jedi Experience. I'm sure there are other, better, combo's. However my character is no longer a character but a Jedi Xp Grind Template. So I ask, is that really any different that jumping through profession hoops to reach Jedi?
Oh, and when you reply, remember that I too did the hologrind. I'm not a noob nor have I only been playing for a month or two. Nor do I care about what is "fair". Grinds are bad for everybody if it leads to a loss of game quality hence interest. Less Interest = Less Profit. Less Profit = No Game.
Xanzu / Lowca
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
114,750,000 experience points ( 1/30 Weapon Xp + 1/3 Weapon Xp ) just to get the initial 6 branches!
I'll come work for you people and show you a quest based system. Thats not it! Matter of fact thats the equivalent of grinding out TKA 32.55 times! Which is an oddly familiar number..."32". Aren't there 32 professions in the game. Yeah, but then they don't all require the same amount of xp as an advanced prof. So actually its the equivalent of grinding out well over the 32 professions I would have had to do before. Oh, and some piddly quests _and_ waiting for village rotation.
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
114,750,000 xp pts is the equivalent of mastering more than 32 ADVANCED professions. To state that this is not as bad as the original system is irrational..AND...it doesn't even leave you at the same place you'd have been if you simply unlocked under the old system.
Let me put it in list form:
1. 114,750,000 xp = More than mastering 32 Advanced Professions
2. Quests to qualify for the Intro Quests
3. Into Quests
4. 6 Branch Quests ( which will require approx 18 weeks simply to unlock ).
5. Exit Quest
Add all that up and compare it to the old system. The new systems is a far greater Grind Fest.
You say "yeah but you get to keep the character you want while persuing Jedi". Thats a load of bung, because:
CONVERSION RATES ARE NOT THE SAME = Which means people will become certain professions in order to maximize there Jedi Experience. Let me illustrate, my goal being to grind Jedi as fast as possible.
1. Be a smuggler with Underworld IV so I can buy faction. Faction can be converted to Combat Xp. Which in turn can be converted to Jedi Exp at a rate of 1 to 3. Bascially this gives me a means to convert Credits to Jedi Xp.
2. Now I need a way to aquire Jedi Exp while I'm not online. Merchant Xp. Need as many vendors to run as possible. Also I should take up Entertainer for botting as well.
At this point I've become a Marksman/Smuggler/Artisan/Merchant/Entertainer in my efforts to maximize Jedi Experience. I'm sure there are other, better, combo's. However my character is no longer a character but a Jedi Xp Grind Template. So I ask, is that really any different that jumping through profession hoops to reach Jedi?
Oh, and when you reply, remember that I too did the hologrind. I'm not a noob nor have I only been playing for a month or two. Nor do I care about what is "fair". Grinds are bad for everybody if it leads to a loss of game quality hence interest. Less Interest = Less Profit. Less Profit = No Game.
Xanzu / Lowca
Awat
Sat Sep 04, 2004 4:59 pm
#2455
silandril wrote:
Apparently you didn't read my entire post ( section recapped below ):
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
114,750,000 experience points ( 1/30 Weapon Xp + 1/3 Weapon Xp ) just to get the initial 6 branches!
I'll come work for you people and show you a quest based system. Thats not it! Matter of fact thats the equivalent of grinding out TKA 32.55 times! Which is an oddly familiar number..."32". Aren't there 32 professions in the game. Yeah, but then they don't all require the same amount of xp as an advanced prof. So actually its the equivalent of grinding out well over the 32 professions I would have had to do before. Oh, and some piddly quests _and_ waiting for village rotation.
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
114,750,000 xp pts is the equivalent of mastering more than 32 ADVANCED professions. To state that this is not as bad as the original system is irrational..AND...it doesn't even leave you at the same place you'd have been if you simply unlocked under the old system.
Let me put it in list form:
1. 114,750,000 xp = More than mastering 32 Advanced Professions
2. Quests to qualify for the Intro Quests
3. Into Quests
4. 6 Branch Quests ( which will require approx 18 weeks simply to unlock ).
5. Exit Quest
Add all that up and compare it to the old system. The new systems is a far greater Grind Fest.
You say "yeah but you get to keep the character you want while persuing Jedi". Thats a load of bung, because:
CONVERSION RATES ARE NOT THE SAME = Which means people will become certain professions in order to maximize there Jedi Experience. Let me illustrate, my goal being to grind Jedi as fast as possible.
1. Be a smuggler with Underworld IV so I can buy faction. Faction can be converted to Combat Xp. Which in turn can be converted to Jedi Exp at a rate of 1 to 3. Bascially this gives me a means to convert Credits to Jedi Xp.
2. Now I need a way to aquire Jedi Exp while I'm not online. Merchant Xp. Need as many vendors to run as possible. Also I should take up Entertainer for botting as well.
At this point I've become a Marksman/Smuggler/Artisan/Merchant/Entertainer in my efforts to maximize Jedi Experience. I'm sure there are other, better, combo's. However my character is no longer a character but a Jedi Xp Grind Template. So I ask, is that really any different that jumping through profession hoops to reach Jedi?
Oh, and when you reply, remember that I too did the hologrind. I'm not a noob nor have I only been playing for a month or two. Nor do I care about what is "fair". Grinds are bad for everybody if it leads to a loss of game quality hence interest. Less Interest = Less Profit. Less Profit = No Game.
Xanzu / Lowca
/agree
Yep, I was dumb enough to stop hologrinding and actually play the game, rather than just exercise the game mechanics. Reached silent holo months ago, ground about a dozen professions, then went back to playing. I've got well over 75 badges, been playing since day one.
That garnered me a net return of 2 "unlocks." I've unlocked the survival line in the village (thanks to Whip), but at 1.275 million FS XP to complete that line (12.75 million survival XP, if I'm not mistaken), I've got a better chance of whittling a Jedi out of pine and magically animating it before I earn one in this game, at this rate.
Why is it that the old-timers and role-players get screwed regularly?
FormlessOne
Sat Sep 04, 2004 5:00 pm
#2456
And on top of that, I used the wrong friggin' account for my post...
Awat wrote:
silandril wrote:
Apparently you didn't read my entire post ( section recapped below ):
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
114,750,000 experience points ( 1/30 Weapon Xp + 1/3 Weapon Xp ) just to get the initial 6 branches!
I'll come work for you people and show you a quest based system. Thats not it! Matter of fact thats the equivalent of grinding out TKA 32.55 times! Which is an oddly familiar number..."32". Aren't there 32 professions in the game. Yeah, but then they don't all require the same amount of xp as an advanced prof. So actually its the equivalent of grinding out well over the 32 professions I would have had to do before. Oh, and some piddly quests _and_ waiting for village rotation.
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
114,750,000 xp pts is the equivalent of mastering more than 32 ADVANCED professions. To state that this is not as bad as the original system is irrational..AND...it doesn't even leave you at the same place you'd have been if you simply unlocked under the old system.
Let me put it in list form:
1. 114,750,000 xp = More than mastering 32 Advanced Professions
2. Quests to qualify for the Intro Quests
3. Into Quests
4. 6 Branch Quests ( which will require approx 18 weeks simply to unlock ).
5. Exit Quest
Add all that up and compare it to the old system. The new systems is a far greater Grind Fest.
You say "yeah but you get to keep the character you want while persuing Jedi". Thats a load of bung, because:
CONVERSION RATES ARE NOT THE SAME = Which means people will become certain professions in order to maximize there Jedi Experience. Let me illustrate, my goal being to grind Jedi as fast as possible.
1. Be a smuggler with Underworld IV so I can buy faction. Faction can be converted to Combat Xp. Which in turn can be converted to Jedi Exp at a rate of 1 to 3. Bascially this gives me a means to convert Credits to Jedi Xp.
2. Now I need a way to aquire Jedi Exp while I'm not online. Merchant Xp. Need as many vendors to run as possible. Also I should take up Entertainer for botting as well.
At this point I've become a Marksman/Smuggler/Artisan/Merchant/Entertainer in my efforts to maximize Jedi Experience. I'm sure there are other, better, combo's. However my character is no longer a character but a Jedi Xp Grind Template. So I ask, is that really any different that jumping through profession hoops to reach Jedi?
Oh, and when you reply, remember that I too did the hologrind. I'm not a noob nor have I only been playing for a month or two. Nor do I care about what is "fair". Grinds are bad for everybody if it leads to a loss of game quality hence interest. Less Interest = Less Profit. Less Profit = No Game.
Xanzu / Lowca
/agree
Yep, I was dumb enough to stop hologrinding and actually play the game, rather than just exercise the game mechanics. Reached silent holo months ago, ground about a dozen professions, then went back to playing. I've got well over 75 badges, been playing since day one.
That garnered me a net return of 2 "unlocks." I've unlocked the survival line in the village (thanks to Whip), but at 1.275 million FS XP to complete that line (12.75 million survival XP, if I'm not mistaken), I've got a better chance of whittling a Jedi out of pine and magically animating it before I earn one in this game, at this rate.
Why is it that the old-timers and role-players get screwed regularly?
silandril
Sat Sep 04, 2004 5:31 pm
#2457
One last batch of commentary:
I find it truly sad that the apparent project strategy is:
1. As long as people desire to be a Jedi they will play and PAY.
2. If they whine too much about fairness or being able to become a Jedi, serve up another dish which will make them "think" they are reaching their goal, while at the same time guaranteeing it will take an eternity. Thus continuing to abuse peoples desire in order to maximize profits.
Of course, SWG is now in a pickle. JTL represents a substantial financial investment. However, EQ2 represents an even greater one. So the question is...how do we keep players interested in SWG, get them to buy JTL, and then have those same players ( and hopefully more ) buy and play EQ2 in addition to SWG?
Upsetting them isn't the answer.
Perhaps:
1. Let the people become a Jedi without hideous barriers.
This will make the majority happy and prolong/rekindle many people's interest in the game.
2. Level the combat playing field a bit.
This will make the "majority" happy. Bounty Hunters rejoice. Jedi's have destroyed PvP. Several TKM's should be able to take down a Jedi. The Force might be with the Jedi but numbers are ever stronger.
3. JTL is an exciting new Facet to MMORPG's. Lets face it. I want a Jedi, but I also want to fly! You say I can customize my ship...cool! I can take my friends to other worlds, maybe even get to smuggle a bit! This will also maintain players interest in the game.
4. You put FUN first and I'll love this game. If I love this game and have an interest in the fantasy genre, poof you got me for both. You make SWG a "second job" make it as restrictive and time consuming as possible. I' m outta there. Will I try EQ2. You betcha! If it ends up following this same business strategy...well...I might not be at it for long. And REMEMBER. EQ2 doesn't have the charm and inherent appeal of EQ the first experience many had with online RPG's. Maintaining interest and distinguishing your product only becomes more difficult. SONY has a unique opportunity to dominate online gaming for a long time, RPG & Action, Fantasy and Sci-Fi.
Just my 2 cents. Now maybe I can be quiet and not post for another 5 months.
Xanzu / Lowca
I find it truly sad that the apparent project strategy is:
1. As long as people desire to be a Jedi they will play and PAY.
2. If they whine too much about fairness or being able to become a Jedi, serve up another dish which will make them "think" they are reaching their goal, while at the same time guaranteeing it will take an eternity. Thus continuing to abuse peoples desire in order to maximize profits.
Of course, SWG is now in a pickle. JTL represents a substantial financial investment. However, EQ2 represents an even greater one. So the question is...how do we keep players interested in SWG, get them to buy JTL, and then have those same players ( and hopefully more ) buy and play EQ2 in addition to SWG?
Upsetting them isn't the answer.
Perhaps:
1. Let the people become a Jedi without hideous barriers.
This will make the majority happy and prolong/rekindle many people's interest in the game.
2. Level the combat playing field a bit.
This will make the "majority" happy. Bounty Hunters rejoice. Jedi's have destroyed PvP. Several TKM's should be able to take down a Jedi. The Force might be with the Jedi but numbers are ever stronger.
3. JTL is an exciting new Facet to MMORPG's. Lets face it. I want a Jedi, but I also want to fly! You say I can customize my ship...cool! I can take my friends to other worlds, maybe even get to smuggle a bit! This will also maintain players interest in the game.
4. You put FUN first and I'll love this game. If I love this game and have an interest in the fantasy genre, poof you got me for both. You make SWG a "second job" make it as restrictive and time consuming as possible. I' m outta there. Will I try EQ2. You betcha! If it ends up following this same business strategy...well...I might not be at it for long. And REMEMBER. EQ2 doesn't have the charm and inherent appeal of EQ the first experience many had with online RPG's. Maintaining interest and distinguishing your product only becomes more difficult. SONY has a unique opportunity to dominate online gaming for a long time, RPG & Action, Fantasy and Sci-Fi.
Just my 2 cents. Now maybe I can be quiet and not post for another 5 months.
Xanzu / Lowca