Development Cycle Archive

Thread: In-Concept Open Discussion (Week Ending 3-1-04)

RivNightkiller
Wed Feb 25, 2004 5:45 pm
#222

First I like to say what a wonderful job you guys are doing and keep up the good work:


For a conceptual thought:


AT-ST as a Imperial vehicle and not a pet. Reason, I just have a hard time seeing a machine as a pet when it should be manned like a speederbike. This can be the same as an AT-AT. Should be purchased thru faction points and must be Overt to use it.


Factional mounts (vehicles) with weapons - must be overt to use. One or two weapon mounts(promary - beam weapon type, secondary type: launcher) with an auxilary add ons (i.e shield generator and covert detector).


Portable covert scanners: Must be overt to use - Reason: This a Galactic Civil War, This is what Star Wars is all about. Accepting the danger of choosing sides comes with a price.


Player City Defenses: Standard defense (if city is a faction city)


Display of persons rank in character profile(Faction)


Introduction of Hutt Faction - Reason: Adding a third faction will add to the game.


Addition of many more weapons and armor types as well as machines of war over time(i.e research and developement by factions)


More faction related structures, big or small.


More building floorplans and varieties.


Pets: If faction pets dies, so should CH pets etc etc. It is a consequence for fighting. ( I know this wont fly, but had to ask)


The price of war(I know this wont fly either: Faction flagged builings, not Faction buildings: i.e Mineral Extractors w/imperial logo as being owned by an imp be destructable) (The price of war and its consequences: I know this a know but had to ask)



Basically I am trying to spice up the Galactic War. By making it more fun and more involved. The game is about a war and adventure and it should reflect it.


Well enough rambling, Time for people to yell at me.
Vicu
Wed Feb 25, 2004 7:20 pm
#223

This is reposted from the test centre forum, i was directed here to post ideas.



WHen riding our speeders swoops and landspeeders we can't use any weapons or attacks, there isn't even really a good animation for riding while holding a weapon.


Now, we all saw the speeder chases in Jedi and Ep 2, and even the podrace, and you know.. our own reality shows that people can do more than one thing while operating a vehicle, though it isnt wise to do so in a forest while going 500km per hour.


So, if we can't use weapons like pistols or knives while riding oru vehicles as any available proffesions, perhaps a proffesional Swoop Rider could use attacks while riding. I think logically it would stem from the markmans or brawler proffesion, i'd think the pistol and fencer paths.



___________________
Violence for the people!

Vicu Bro'lya - Master Pistoleer, Master Fencer, Master Explorer, Rebel Colonel and Ace Pilot
xtxShifter
Wed Feb 25, 2004 7:37 pm
#224






Vicu wrote:

This is reposted from the test centre forum, i was directed here to post ideas.



WHen riding our speeders swoops and landspeeders we can't use any weapons or attacks, there isn't even really a good animation for riding while holding a weapon.


Now, we all saw the speeder chases in Jedi and Ep 2, and even the podrace, and you know.. our own reality shows that people can do more than one thing while operating a vehicle, though it isnt wise to do so in a forest while going 500km per hour.


So, if we can't use weapons like pistols or knives while riding oru vehicles as any available proffesions, perhaps a proffesional Swoop Rider could use attacks while riding. I think logically it would stem from the markmans or brawler proffesion, i'd think the pistol and fencer paths.






I strongly expect that there will eventualy be vehicle combat professions later on in the game. Probably around the time armored combat vehicles are implemented.



Elder Shipwright Ledaio
Kaadara - Naboo
Valcyn

Hisler
Wed Feb 25, 2004 8:32 pm
#225

I totaly agree this game has no high end except for jedi ... I have Mastered Brawler, marksman, fenser, swordsman, almost tka and pistoler, artisan, squadleader, tailor, droid engineer, armorsmith, medic, doctor, combat medic, entertainer, dancer, and musician at this point .... The grinding is so old its pathetic .... This game needs real elite classes ... hell make true hybrids ... You learn Pistoler and Fenser you can become a Duelist which uses all the defensive bonuses .... You could make the true elite classes take about as long as jedi to master but that would make the game alot funner .... As it is the only thing is to grind .....


BUT WAIT !!!!! GRINDING IS GONNA BE REMOVED FOR A QUEST SYSTEM BECAUSE ALL THE WEINERS !!!!


So basicly my choice or the professions i loved best were fenser with some pistoler and such ..... but no i had To drop all the classes i loved becuase my holo's told me artisan ..... squad leader ..... tailor .... droid enginer .... and what i really loved I had to give up ..... But wait were going to a new quest system ..... So basicly the people whom are gonna benifit the most are peoples like bounty hunters whom **edit** all the time because they just wanna be bounty hunters and have only mastered one two professions ..... So im gonna have to start out at Square one with crappy classes like dancer musician or Architect weaposnsmith because i have tried every profession i could find to get my force slot unlocked... Hell how bout give the people whom have Mastered over 10 ELITE professions a head start and thier choice of skill picks .... People that are 15 Elite Professions into the Grinding a Huge head Start and thier choice of skill picks ... Peeps that are over 20+ ELITE professions Might as well give em the jedi character they damn well deserve it .... Its lame make it fair ..... Dont try to cater to the biotches ..... because everyone will always complain ....



As far as i look at it the only thing to do is grind to get jedi or pvp ... and pvp in this game totaly sucks ... A COVERT DOES NOT WANNA BE PKILLED !!!!! A covert should not be able to attack a overt person under any circumstances unless he goes to the recruiter and goes overt and waits for 5 minutes.... Its kinda lame when i attack a overt person and he is the only red person on the map then sudenly 50 red dots appear on the map and they are all attacking you.. I dont mind loosing to 1, 2, 3 people because you can still win with the right classes and skill but 20 people when you just checked the whole area and only 2 overts in sight ......



And the Imperial Crack down its is a friggin joke ... You are basicly giving the rebels free faction in cities such as coronet ... As I remember the IMPERIALS were in power and the rebels were a small force that was always running from the Impirials and were fighting for the republic but they were always outmanned and out gunned ... but why is it you got starting cities like coronet which is the hub of trade and travel on flurry its a rebel city while bestine is dead as hell ... wonder why there are more rebels than imperials .... Oh lets nerf at-st's and faction pets ..... Make more faction perks ... higher end armor and such .........................



Oh and ARMOR !!!! for christ sakes anyone have trouble finding a good armor dealer .... I got three accounts one is a musician + Doc ... the other is a armor smith ... and the other is the grinder .... And for over 6 months no decent armorsmithing mineral has came up .... for gods sake the resource shifting system sucks ... I understand you want everyone to have access to the minerals ... but make a higher frequency of the rare components ... I have been on flurry and the past 6 months I have seen Awesome Kamris Irons come up like 3 to 4 diff types a week but the main ingredients for adv ubese or composite have just came up and the really suck ... Most decent sets i find the armor smiths want 100k to 450k a piece for the individual components .... ARMOR degrades faster than weapons except for super fast weapons .... as a fenser is settled to exping butt naked due to the outrageous prices on armor due to the crappy supply of resources !!!!

sciguyCO
Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:19 pm
#226

Hope this isn't coming in too late to be skipped over.


Obligatory groveling: I love the design and options you brought with the chef revamp. The food buffs have a structure to them that makes it easier to fill orders for something "just like food X only for stat Y" The new food effects (giving chefs something truly unique) is a welcome change to the previous "competition" with doc/entertainer/spice buffs (quoted because yes I realize they all stacked).


The one area that has been causing a lot of concern, though, is the BE supplements. These also benefited from the design revamp, making much more sense in how and where they're useful. The pricing antagonism that occured soon after the revamp thankfully seems to have calmed down.But the bonuses they provide has made some chefs feel that when they include supplements, they're just tissue-delivery mechanisms. With a chef's contribution becomingless then half of a BE-enhanced product's quality, and the obvious demand for enhanced foods from the powergamers and PvPers, we'd like to feel that a chef's skills and efforts make up a larger part of those offerings.


I started up a thread in the chef forum with my take on a possible adjustment, and there were some good points and ideas brought up, both by chefs and BEs. Pages 2 and 3 get a little flamey, I'm hoping that'll die down.


You can see the discussion here:

http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=chef&message.id=29891





Kriles Ch'artoff , Chilastra server
Master Chef (retired)
Currently doing....stuff
Xyvyon
Thu Feb 26, 2004 5:14 am
#227


180° - From Galaxies to Grind
By Matt "Mattt" Kirschnick


Star Wars Galaxies once promised to overcome the grind hated by casual gamers, while still managing to entertain the powergamers. Unfortunately, the infinite struggle to please the latter sent the game in the total opposite direction, upsetting the former for too much grind, and the latter for too little to grind through.


A long time ago, in a development forum before release day, we were introduced to a dream come true, a chance to live in that far away Galaxy we all grew up with. We were promised more than just a Star Wars game, however. We were told of many great wonders, from no down-time or camping to vast worlds, with dynamically generated content, to a casual gamer’s paradise; there would even be an extremely difficult and very rare Jedi class to play. To make things more exciting, the dream would be truly complete with the already-conceived Space Expansion. Unfortunately, from the Beta test until this very day, for better or for worse, Star Wars Galaxies has taken a 180° turn in the opposite direction.


I had the opportunity to test Star Wars Galaxies during the second and third phases of Beta. It was an exciting experience: it, at first, appeared the many promises would come true. Random, dynamically generated, events would happen out in the wild, giving players choice on how to proceed. Crafters with little time to play could log in to find they had gained enough experience to get their next skill box through the automated construction of their items in a factory. Marksmen could log in, take a quick mission from the mission terminal, and grab some needed experience points. Jedi were nowhere to be found yet but that was exactly how things were supposed to be. In fact, we were later told at E3 2003 that Jedi in Galaxies would lead lives much like the Jedi of the time. Like Obi Wan, Jedi would be forced into hiding, as they would be actively hunted down by the empire.


As time went on, however, it became clear the direction had changed. Powergamers got their hands on the Beta and quickly showed the developers how fast they could plow through the game. Using factories, crafters propelled through the trade skills in no time. The dynamic quests could not be camped, nor did they have exciting items to loot. In a subscription-based game, this was unacceptable. There had to be reason for players to renew their subscription month after month. Experience from factories was gradually reduced to zero, leaving casual gamers with little choice but to spend hours building the same item over and over to gain but one skill box. Dynamically generated content all but disappeared in favour of static, camped dungeons. Of course, trying to fill ten, vast worlds with static content proved to be an impossible task, one the developers are frantically trying to complete even today.


Missions, too, became an outlet for powergamers. With a favourable cash reward, missions were a way for grinders to print money to fuel the player-run economy. Consequently, inflated prices became the norm. When asked why their armour, vital to the survival of many melee-types, was so expensive, armoursmiths simply repeated, “hey, why don’t you just do some missions?”


Powergamers and grinding has become the way of life in SWG. With the first appearance of a player Jedi, it became crystal clear that the developers not only approved of this way of life but they actually encouraged it. Having once been promised that the path to becoming a Jedi would be unique and exciting for each player, players were dismayed to discover the simplicity of the temporary system put in place to reach this goal. Rather than complete some long series of quests or conduct themselves an appropriate way, players simply were required to grind their way through five random professions, four of which were revealed to them through rare items, dropped by various, heavily camped spawns. Knowing that there was now no barrier keeping them from becoming Jedi, many players began the long, boring process of advancing through professions they had no desire to play. Cantinas became filled with “Holo-Dancers”, players who needed to master the Dancer profession to find out which profession they next had to master. Worst of all, not knowing the last profession often left players to systematically grind through every profession in the game until they happened upon the correct one. Worse still, the first Jedi freely paraded up and down the streets, laughing in the faces of those who actually believed Jedi would be a hunted people. With player Jedi names like “Ima Forcesensitive”, it became clear that the original vision was no where to be seen.


Through all of this, Bartle Achievers were leaving left and right for the next “big thing” or a previous favourite, dissatisfied with the amount of content in the game. Neglected by the Developers, PvPers, Bartle Killers, also began to drop out of the game. In the quest to satisfy the content-seeking players, the Galactic Civil War quickly became stagnant, made boring by a stale and unbalanced PvP system. Bartle Explorers, too, looked to other games to discover. The vast worlds of Star Wars Galaxies are still largely barren, many with unexciting cookie-cutter cities and dungeons. Recently, in an effort to make players aware of all the hard work the they had done to populate the world, the Developers added Points of Interest waypoints to the Datapads of all players, effectively neutralizing any sense of discovery and exploration. With the Achievers, Killers, and Explorers all closing their accounts, Social gamers began to take notice. Guilds emptied and collapsed. Like boom towns after a gold rush, player cities emptied out, leaving behind abandoned ghost towns. Entire static cities were deserted, leaving only one or two major cities per planet with essential services, like physicians and entertainers. With nobody to talk to, social gamers followed their friends to whatever games they had decided to move on to. Once proclaimed the second-largest game in North America - second, of course, to Everquest – Galaxies at least feels like it has lost that title, ironically, in its attempt to be like Everquest.


With all this doom and gloom, it sounds like nobody plays SWG. Well that is not entirely true. Many of us log in every so often to do whatever tasks we are obligated to do, like power our ore harvesters, pay the maintenance for our houses, or clean out all the “member left guild” notices from our in-game mailbox. Some stick around, desperately hoping for the distant Space Expansion. While a 2004 release date has been promised, release dates, today, must be taken with a grain of salt. Galaxies has certainly come a long way since its inception; however, one thing is seemingly for sure. The Space Expansion had better make a big splash at this year’s Electronics Entertainment Expo. For players, many of whom feel betrayed or simply bored, SE is SWG’s last hope.




by stratics The Best POST EVER !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Filthylove
Thu Feb 26, 2004 5:43 am
#228

Me and some of hte other entertainers in Bestine (on chimera) were talking and thought of a "fighting arena" that can be placed in player cities. There they can place bets and have either PvP or NPC's generated for the players to fight.

Creature handlers could use there tamed creatures to fight either other creature handlers pets,players or NPCs.


A mortal combat style would take place inwhich players are deathblowed (or incap x3) to finish the match. They obviously will have to lose something more than a normal match, plus gain something more to make it more appealing.


Tournaments could take place, and the winner is given a badge or trophy that they can show off. Each city would have its own reward so that peopel are encouraged to travel to other player cities!


hope it sounds good to you lot!

Tur_Sett
Thu Feb 26, 2004 7:06 am
#229

I just happen to be one of those ents


I am also a TKM on the Bloodfin Server. We started talking in groupchat and I brought up that every group of profs (gun users, entertainers, ect.) need their own static quests and their own missions that are reasonable and profitable (i.e. not having your poor novice ent have to walk 13k meters cause they cant afford a speeder to make 250 credits). I have some ideas that touch on many profs and game ideas. My Ideas are as follows:


1. Have static NPCs ents can dance or play for who only like certain kinds of songs or dances


2. Have NPCs such as Max Rebo or Oola give out quest missions and the reward be a special song or dance


3. To add more to the Arena idea, this is the perfect quest for TKs or any combat proffesion that wants more then just missions or factional PvP.You could add an arena akin to the Genosian Areana from Attack of the Clones that could work on many levels


I. you could have it be like a theme park with NPCs that you could challenge to fights that get progressivly harder


II. Have it work sort of like the way battlefields use to work with PvP fights, the loser gets ejected from the arena but no real penalty for death


III. Let other players bet on the fights


IV. Have characters fight deadly creatures and droids, perhaps even creatures that can be found no where else and get a genetic scematic for a reward to sell or have made by a Bio-engineer


V. Like it was said above there should be at least two of these arenas to encourage travel, also there should be a badge for completeing the PvE segment of the arena. Something like "A Champion of the Bestine Arena"


4. It was mentioned on an Image Design thread about them "hiding" people. I think a great idea for Image Designers would be to give them the ability to "disguse" someone and thus immediatly remove a TEF...Another great idea would be to make the character appear to be an NPC of one of the various factions so they could infiltrate enemy ranks. Speaking of which


5. A new gameplay element, stealth! Thats right, instead of just combat how about missions where the idea is to NOT kill everything in sight but to infiltrate an enemy base and get some intel. This could be a dancer seducing an Imperial Officer. Much like the part of the latest monthly story arc you would actually have to TALK to someone and make the right choices and use your brain or be exposed (TEF, Aggroed) and have to run like hell.


6. Montly (or bi-montly) story arcs MUST continue. As everyone is fond of pointing out this is NOT EVERQUEST. Star Wars is about the story and this is the story of what happened between ANH and ESB. I understand you want more permanant content, someone had the idea of making old story arc missions become "training missions" that you dont get a badge for or the big reward, perhaps a good but slightly less good reward. We need more then just new dungeons because the problem with stuff like The Warren and The Biolab is that when they first go live EVERYONE is there and the game just bogs down with lag for me, for some it does not but I prefer having to go off into the wilds and having everyone going off to different worlds because it spreads people out and gets them out traveling on worlds more. Dont get me wrong, Im not saying DONT do dungeons just dont put all your eggs in that basket is all I ask.


7. MORE themeparks and expanded themeparks. To me themeparks are the best part of the game and I was thrilled that I got to do the Emperor's Retreat again. These missions really made me feel like I was in the SW universe because they had a STORY to them. I say expand the Emp Retreat with missions aimed at those who have completed it and are higher level. Make it so that it has a plot that runs thoughout the entire park. Do the same for Jabba and the Rebels and add new parks.


8. Smuggler Missons: this idea has come up before and is not mine Im just reposting it because I loved the idea. Have smugglers "slice" into mission terminals to acess black market missons that require them to smuggle spice or sliced goods. Also have more then just stormtroopers scan for sliced goods and spice. Perhaps Jabba's guys could scan you and if you have low jabba standing they attack and vice versa for Valarian. The reasoning? These groups make their credits by control of the spice trade and black market arms dealing. Makes sense they would try and steal merchandice from a competitor or shut down their gofers. Even the various desert bands would want to rob you right?


9. Battlefield Worlds: Thats right, instead of Battlefield zones under the old system make Battlefield planets. I will use Hoth as an example. Hoth would be divied into ZONES. Each zone would have objectives for the Rebel and Imperial side such as destorying a turret or taking over a bunker. If you die in a zone and cant be resed then you are kicked out of it and cannot reenter it for an hour or two but you CAN enter another zone. The side that controls the most zones controls the planet and gets a bonus of some kind. Using this idea you could have worlds with battles rampaging in cities like they should be but not upsetting people who dont like combat or walking over piles of dead NPCs to go to the cantina.


Just some ideas, I really hope you read them



----------------------------------


Tur Sett TKM, CHM


Talia Sett Dancer, Pistoleer




Tur_Sett
Thu Feb 26, 2004 7:24 am
#230

A lot of talk on here about making Dark Jedi an easier path. YES!!!! this is a perfect idea because a Dark Jedi and a Sith are not exactly the same thing and it makes more sense that there would be more Dark Jedi's roaming around then real jedi's taking into account the timeling andseeing as someone who did not have the benifit of a master to guide them would easily fall to the dark side IMHO.




Beladona
Thu Feb 26, 2004 7:56 am
#231

Please Please Please...

In designing the quest system for jedi unlock... please insure that this journey will be possible for individuals, (or individuals with a buddy helping occasionally), and not limited only to those in large powerful guilds, and "powergamers".

... and THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU
for /movefurniture UP & DOWN!,
and for boosting the current quests/ rewards/ NPC interaction.
Hobbes76
Thu Feb 26, 2004 8:02 am
#232


Taking a cue from the theme parks whereby you can get schematics for items specific to a profession and also the epic quest system from DAoC, I came up with this idea.


Currently when one masters a profession, all you get is a badge, a title and pride that you have made it. To some it may not be worth it so I was thinking of certain rewards that one can get one masters a profession.


In DAoC, as you level up in your class, your trainer will set you off on an Epic quest and this spans several legs, meaning you do several quests and you need to level up to a certain level before you are allowed to do the next leg of the Epic quest and each leg will reward the player with an item that is useful to the class.


Well here is my proposal, when a person masters a profession, the trainer will give the player a quest or several questsfor a schematic/s for an item/s ( pieces of clothing, accessories ) that will help definethe role of the profession in general( thus no mand armour or dual pistols or jet packs for BHs as these were specific to a certain character only ) Maybe throw in a few skill mods if you like.


I have read messages from imps that they were rather unhappy at not getting the reward they wanted from the Imp theme parks so I might suggest the trainer giving the player a choice of items, maybe you can get 3 out of 5 items from a list ( for example ). These items can only be equipped if you are a master of that particular profession andthe quests are onlygiven when you have mastered it ( duh! ).


How SOE do it, I don't know as I'm just throwing ideas around and given that each profession is slightly different, it will be a heavy task to design unique quests for each of them and on top of that make it interesting. Thus here comes a second solution:


Make the trainers like the rebel/imp recuiters. Have them sell specific master item schematicsbut instead of credits, how about players cash in their experience points for their specific class or a combination ( Eg, pistol + combat xp ) Perhapsnot so powerful items you can redeem with just pistol xp and the more powerful ones with both pistol + combat xp. Your thoughts on this please.
Robberto
Thu Feb 26, 2004 8:16 am
#233


Hi, I have a few suggestion I think will make the game better and more enjoyable, some I have seen suggested by other and their inclusion can be taken as my vote for the. Others are my own. So....



#1) I think droids should have a "fetch" command, So that they can pick up objects if they have a storage module or if in combat a medic can command a droid with a manipulator arm to drag a targeted incapacitated player to the medic instead on the medic having to go down under an irritated rancor to heal someone. I have done this and been killed for the attempt so now I don't, If you are down you wait till the combat stops. This droid command would help everyone.



#2) Remote harvester/installation status check. You should be able to check the status of a harvester with your data pad. This should include maintenance level, power level, condition, operating status(off/on) and resource chosen. We can do this type of thing with trucks and such so I don't think it it much of a stretch that in the advanced technological system like SWG you could do this.



#3) Vehicle colors should be able to be set when manufactured. If I can make a shirt in different colors why not a speeder. I think the colorization kits are a great idea but they fade rather quickly ( if I paid to have my car painted and after taking it out of the garage a few times the paint faded away...well...can you say LAWSUIT?).



#4) There need to be something done about the AFK spammers outside spaceports, i don't have a problem with people that stand there and try to sell something but the ones that make a macro to advertise their vendor and ALL the goods on it 10 times a minute and then go AFK for the day just make it hard for others to do anything because of all the paragraph long chatter from hawkers. Maybe a billboard they can rent space on and when you examine it you can see the ads. While i'm on the spacport subject there needs to be a no speeder/pet/mount zone near the spaceport door because sometimes you come up and there is 10 speeders jammed in the doorway and 20 pets/mounts standing around roaring, it just creates alot of unnecessary noise and lagg.



#5) House customization. You should be able to manufacture houses in different colors. And then you should be able to paint it later and change the floorplans (house customization kits). you should also be able to lock open or closed the doors.



well thats all I have for now, thanks for listening...err reading or whatever.





Robberto Noon
Master spy
Master Commando
Master Pilot
Broken Allegiance
Gorath


fennijerr
Thu Feb 26, 2004 9:18 am
#234

I can't seem to find anything on flora, so i'm just posting here. I'd like to see more options and available flora items and decoration. Some creative people get off on this part of the game wildly. Thanks!
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