Development Cycle Archive

Thread: 19 Answers 5-26-04

Cafa
Tue Jun 01, 2004 9:17 am
#209




AudioOrgana wrote:





Stargzrrag wrote:

TH-
Would you be kind enough to come to the Architect forum and tell us why our question got dodged?









Actually, you got one of the clearest answers : No.


While I too was slightly dismayed by the crate question answer, the one about resource stacks was pretty cut and dry.


For those of you who weren't in beta, the stack of resources at 100K may not seem likea lot - but when you realize that initially it was 250/stack (two hundred fifty, like the number between two forty-nine and two fifty-one) 100K seems like a lot (like, 400x more).


100K is more than adequate for resource stacks. However, I agree that something needs to be done about crates. I know TH isn't a crafter, but he needs to understand what it's like to manage so many subcomponents in factories. Before he says anything else about this topic, I would hope he'd polp down some factories, dial himself in an elite crafting profession on TC, and see what it's like. Make a set of Advanced Droid Brains and see how much stuff you have to deal with.


Crates and storage go hand in hand - we are forced to make tons and tons of crates because of the low volume in each one, yet we have to set up spare houses and exploit factory input hoppers just to do regular runs.


From TH's answer about the crates, I believe he just doesn't understand what it's like to be a crafter. If they ever change it back to 100/schematic, playing would just be worthless for most master crafters. Baby sitting a factory and having to refill it every 2-3 hours when doing a large run would drive most of us out of the crafting game for good. Here's hoping that someone on the Dev team actually plays a crafter and understands.


AO







Very disappointed in your centric viewpoint Audio. For someone that usually held everyone's needs in consideration your have no problem instantly dismissing the needs of crafters that have a large variety of resource storage. For me to build 100 heavy mineral harvestors requires 1,600K or grind ore, 910K or grind metal, 154K of the HIGH quality harvestor steel,1 million units of aluminum, and a whole bunch of other misc resources. To this day I sell 200+ harvestors on a good run of any mineral people want. It fundamentally affects architects to limit resource stacking as we have thehighest resource demands to smallest return. I would rather have 100 limit schematics and 1,000K resource stacking than what we have now but you don't see me telling them to do that. Advocacy is for the crafting professions.


Limiting stacks to 100K is no more intelligent than the camp requirements were. Funny management looked at that directly but something that affects the entire populace, if not just crafters as much, is shoved away to the corner and we are basically threatened by SOE to shutup or they will nerf us further.


Fivo Asia


Fivo Asia





- Strength In Numbers - Loyal Subjects of the Empire
Asia Brothers Industries - Asia Hall SiN CiTY, Dantooine (Offers Vendor at -4703 -1404)
A player bodyguard can't protect you either, something agroes you, you are dead. The
only difference between a pet and the person, is you pay the person to stand there
and watch you die. -- Straker Atrella
Cafa
Tue Jun 01, 2004 9:28 am
#210




LonelyGhost wrote:

I agree with many of the posters on the storage issue. This is an issue that is affecting virtually all crafters, and anyone who wants to decorate their homes AND collect stuff for museums or just to horde. You dont seem to understand that the ones whom you seem to most fear will create a monompoly WILL DO IT ANYWAY through the variety of methods mentioned before. You wil NOT stop such a person! SO in your effort to stop them you are making the GAME less FUN for a whole lot of people...


FOR NOTHING!!


Your efforts are in vain already. You have lost the war before a single shot was fired. You FAILED. So, now it seem logical, and just plain "right" for you to work on getting these storage issue resolved. I will admit, I fear some of the ideas floated in this thread...things like removal of Admin right on harvs, putting the max schematic size back to 100, removing the ability to make a schematic for any non-components.... but I fear them because it will drastically change the way I play, and will mean its not so easy to make 2 million credits a week selling resources. I invest a half a dozen hours a week into my business each week...maybe 12 hours tops, and its easy, rather tedious work. In return, i have all the advantages granted by a fat bank account.


But despite the fact that my earning power will be drastically reduced by these types of changes, I would welcome them. Thisgame is too easy. Its too easy even for a solo player, nevermind the power Guilds. Stop trying to hold back these motivated and dedicated people (as you seem to be trying to do with item caps) and look at how much it hurts the regualr players. Your efforts are wasted, since the motivated and dedicated players will STILL find ways to do what they want to do.....its why we call them motivated and dedicated!




What's so funny to me is all I hear people say is nerf the and nerf that to put more limitations on the game and then whine like children when it happens.


What hurts the gaming community is we fundamentally do not have representation for the crafting community. I see not a single vocal management voice advocating crafters issues whatsoever. I see a semi-causal player in charge of PR and not much else.


If management doesn't think perception is reality then why do they apply the branding to us players? Pondering that? It's because they're fundamentally human too.


Fivo Asia





- Strength In Numbers - Loyal Subjects of the Empire
Asia Brothers Industries - Asia Hall SiN CiTY, Dantooine (Offers Vendor at -4703 -1404)
A player bodyguard can't protect you either, something agroes you, you are dead. The
only difference between a pet and the person, is you pay the person to stand there
and watch you die. -- Straker Atrella
Cafa
Wed Jun 02, 2004 12:02 am
#211





Thunderheart wrote:


RotorofCorRng wrote:
Okay, you said No.

Why not?

Would the database not benefit from this?




It would actually, but the economy would suffer. Don't think of it in terms of how many items you can make as a player, but rather, how many items all players can make. With only a few thousand playersper server,any player can manufacture enough several thousand items, thus making enough items for eveyone on a server. This creates a situation where the players who are part of the most efficient crafting PA's can saturate a market all by themselves and completely squeeze out most other crafters. If you couple this with that same crafter's ability to get the best possible resources at any given time, it is very easy for a a clever crafter to get the best materials and saturate the market with the best items and make it too difficult for anyone else to try and sell their goods.




First off, I really considered writing this and then replying under someone else's account. Probably because I often let my love of the crafting side of the game get ahead of civility to many, including TH. My apologies for that. I'll try to do better. So continuing:


I really wanted to start this response notating your answer about the economy again. Both for selfish and unselfish reasons, I believe you keep bringing the economy in as the referee's yellow flag and throwing it up when there is no ready answer. "Why" I believe this is the fact that you continue to equate "success" with being evil. It permiates your every post on these issues. You represent a game where you advocate grouping, guilds and basically massive multiplayer communities being formed and then poo poo people when they succeed at that.


When I started this game in Sept 2003 I explored for over 2 months before settling into a set of templates. My first character, Cafa Asia, was constantly getting killed by Setis, a most notrious rebel. His actions (and I might say noble actions) as an enemy drove me to stop trying to be a jack-of-all-trades, purchase a second character to do my crafter explorations (ergo Fivo) and strive to meet him on the battlefield. Unfortunately Setis quit the game due to what he saw as game-breaking issues before I got my template done. Need I remind you this was back when most of us had little access to ubese armor, much less composite, and buffs were very uncommon. The limitation in front of me was nothing more than my own time.


Fivo went into Master Architect right before the player cities hit, literally days before. He rose during a time where there were over 18 different Master Architects on server playing at the level I do so today. They were able to do so because people bought and sold resources at reasonable rates that included a profitability for the end crafter built into the purchase price. Even with loads of competition it only took me four weeks with two characters, and my guild of 10 people helping, to get Fivo near the top of the game in sales for harvestors and houses. The pace of player city building burned a LOT of architects out. However, I thrived because I logged in everyday and was there when people needed help. I spent the 6 hours every 2 says surveying that was necessary to get resources for myself and as much as five other guilds. I was really good at the surveying game and enjoyed it. I continue, to this day, to refuse to sell resources as the fun for me is making things, not selling commodities.


But let's go back to why I am mentioning all this.


I started out with a lot less than beta people and excelled. I did the work, made the relationships and excelled.


Our guild now has 120 members and two cities right next to each other on Dantooine. SiN City became a metropolis through my and others advocacy and daily play. SiN City Too was started because SiN City was such a draw and physically ran out of room. Between the two cities we have around 195 citizens, I believe. While trial and tribulations are always there, I would say our group and guild goals have been successful. They got successful through daily play and advocacy in the game, not exploits, not monopolies. The town advocates people joining that want to play the game. THAT is the primary goal in any citizen being invited in. Our cantina is not empty, we have 5 bases that are the center of a ton of PvP on the server and a thriving commerce area that is not focused on controlling anything. If you check the forums you will note that I have NEVER ONCE advertised MY wares. Yet without a doubt I am well known on the server from my efforts to be involved in helping on many different levels.


SOE management destroyed this economy and created inflation that caused hundreds of people to quit this game with the holo-grind. Your management drove people's desire to unlock to the point of literally halting all sales of resources except to the highest end players. At 30 million in the bank I remember someone asking AND getting 8 cpu for 2 million units of grind ore. That's more than HALF of what I had earned in 3 solid months of sales during the player cities boom for one shift of grind ore. But the fighters doing 40k and 80k kunga missions OVER and OVER and OVER and OVER could well afford that and I broke down and ran them with Cafa until I could afford to buy resources too. So I kept up with inflation through the means provided and watched almost every large volume architect on the server crumble. The guy who was my main master during apprenticeship just came back to the game after many months away and he still cannot figure out if he wants to deal with how messed up resources are now. Recently the last person on Tempest that was my direct competition quit because the grind of resource management became too much and as far as I can tell no one could really put out the volume I could. I got there through getting relationships on a very personal level with guild members and hard core fighters. When they need something I provide it and I use their lots by directing them to pick up harvs from a warehouse and place them where I survey. They add me to admin and I cover this power and maintenance. We have guild hunts to overcome the meat limitations on MANY things and generally try to go out as a group in any activities. If this is NOT the manner in which this game was supposed to progress please tell me now, because everything I see from SOE management, through you, is being set up to penalize people who are trying to get crafting businesses in this game. The only instance in the game that I can site as ANY monopoly is when you allowed crafting to be exceptional for one day ONE person had the materials to push a micro sensor suite schematic way over normal limits and now controls all sales for the highest end crafting stations on the server. I have since aquired materials I know are better than what he used and cannot come anywhere near that number.


If you are worried about a monopoly consider that for at least three months now I have had the ability to give away harvestors for free. Totally for free. The business semantics have been put in place to support many things (i.e., diversified) and I could flood Tempest with enough harvestors to destroy the architect economy for at least a year. I am not the first to reach this point and I have known 4 others that could have done this. But we didn't. The economy means something to us and we understand it like a heartbeat.


As far as what hurts us, it is only time. Anything that reduces the amount of time we get to play the game hurts. I specifically notate storage. We have enough people to put down storage houses at will. Management of those houses takes many spreadsheets of information on my part. I handle it but would love to reduce the 60 houses down to basically 4. This would allow a central cataloging of materials in one easy spot and less time would be wasted. A STRONGside benefit of this would be dramatic reduction of database storage and overhead management. A novice DBA could write the savings with the most basic input, but it's safe to say you're looking at an 800% reduction in overall storage for the whole game. How can 800% database storage reduction not be important enough to warrant at least as much conversation, or even honest debate, over this matter? Good lord, camps got Raph back in here fast!


On top of that you never addressed crates as asked in the question. Ore Mining Units have never crated and they are much smaller than walls.


Please bring this issue to the forefront. The wasted time and effort to manage items and resources is what discourages new crafters more than anything. I can bring a full 20+ commentaries from crafters in my guild that just gave up because they did not have the time to deal with the overhead imposed.


Thank you.



- Strength In Numbers - Loyal Subjects of the Empire
Asia Brothers Industries - Asia Hall SiN CiTY, Dantooine (Offers Vendor at -4703 -1404)
A player bodyguard can't protect you either, something agroes you, you are dead. The
only difference between a pet and the person, is you pay the person to stand there
and watch you die. -- Straker Atrella
Wookieemenace
Wed Jun 02, 2004 2:35 am
#212
Look it is as simple as this. Yes i am only one voice and yes i am only 14 bucks a month, but i think i speak for many players when i say that " i enjoy the idea of being part of the star wars universe, but do i actaully enjoy this game? , I keep telling myself it will get better, after all the long hours and hard work developing my charcter, searching for my fs slot( and i wont go into detail the pain involved in that, all grinders feel me im sure), and trying to make the star wars world interesting to not only myslef but the people around me."


The thing is though that no matter how much we tell you ( the developer) what we would like to see it is always the opposite , and the only thing we get is what you ( the developer) see that just might hook us for a few more months . if you really want to hook me to play this game a long time make my efforts and time worth while , reward me for the endless hours of gridning and searching planet after polanet for something worth doing . I have found that outside of the grind , there is very little to do , and what there is to do is either too easy and invloves no reward , or too strung out and repitious and provides disappointing awards, or as many of the new quests that were added nearly impossible and the rewards questionable cause someone may steel your loot if you do make it through. Which makes me want to say this . These new quests make a master brawler/swordsman feel like we did the first day we set foot on naboo and got owned by a chuba and wondered why in the heck we couldnt kill a frog with a blaster pistol.


I mean come on, stop telling us we well see in few months or , when the revamp afetr the revamp etc etc . I happen to know for a fact that not all accounts in concern with the FS Slots were fairly given and distributed throughout the course of the game . So many people from the first jedi introduced in the game were unlocking with 6 to 10 professions , then suddenly noone could unlock unless they did around 25 to 30 . And now i happen to know many people who had to do them all . So in relation with the revamp is it fair that we ( the people who have busted our butts trying to unlock our fs and at the same time keep the game fun ) wait for our jedi quests ? And the people ( with exceptions of a few ) that were spoon fed there jedi get there revamp first ? hmmff hmmf that really erks me .. and im sure many other people as well. I want to say that I am speaking of this on this particular forum post because i know it gets read a lot and i want some feedback for you ( the developer) to see.


Anyway i hope your not just trying to hook us with this new revamp thing , and i hope that for once you well be honest to the community about what you have in store for us . I am a veteran of SWG and this could be a really great game if things were fairly distributed. And peoples concerns were addressed in entirley not just touched on. So until next time when you answer our questions with well we will see when... and were looking into that.. and "no" , i will be waiting to clutter up your forum with disappointment and words that will fire your temper. Good day and hope to see something worth while to do in SWg in the near future. Until then i will be collecting broken data pads, data disks, wooden staffs, cdef carbines, petrified eggs , chicken legs, etc etc .. ha ha thank you so much for the long hours of my time ...

sincerely one disappointed wookiee

hooked on aug 17th 2003

Yrecuk (NWO) dantoine Lowca

Captian of Rebel Alliance ( 21 k fac-

tion to spare)

Master of 24 proffesions

earned over 100 badges

NoFS Slot and nothing to do : (


IS this how i am thanked for playing this game since nearly the begining?, I think i speak for many people ....



__Wookieemenace__
real game no gimmicks


-FSO- of Lowca
" We have become outcast from society where we train in the ways of the force so that one day we may master the power we weild to use for the good of man-kind "--Jakatta Tentoo
UGC-Goose
Wed Jun 02, 2004 7:24 am
#213

I only have a few things to say........so here it goes


First off....I have been playing this game since Day 2 of it's release.


I have mastered many different professions and have 8 characters on 8 different servers.


yes....I wanted to be a jedi...............(key word was WANTED...not now)


but nothing disappoints me more about this game then this:


FIX THE BROKEN STUFF FIRST,......BEFORE YOU ADD MORE BROKEN STUFF!!!!!


People keep screaming about having nothing to do....no where to explore....blah blah blah......


SOE you can keep players if you just fix the broken stuff. Don't keep adding new content that is also broken and ignoring what is already broken! These 19 answers didn't answer anything! TH...I'm wondering if you shouldn't run for president of the USA with those type of answers!! Focus on fixing all the broken professions and then lets concentrate on JTL. You will attract more players and keep those here if stuff works and then add JTL. Over the past several months, all I read about is Jedi revamp, JTL, DWB, etc,etc.............nothing about fixing .......



I never post anything and read this stuff scratching my head all the time wondering when it's going to happen. I've come to the conclusion after all most a year...........it's not. SOE is only concerned about the almighty dollar........so lets get JTL out there pronto so we can "rob" the rest of people of their hard earned money. I'm just about done with this game.........I've tried to stick it out but I don't think I can. With the last patch 8.2...........I now don't get paid for my missions. I've lost about 200K in mission so far.



Ok.......I'm done. I have only posted a few times.........and this will be the last time I post I'm sure.




IGN = Do'be Dobedo, Colonel in the Imperial Army
Pawlin
Wed Jun 02, 2004 1:38 pm
#214




Hedek wrote:


....I certainly wouldn't be wrong when saying that NEVER, in the history of all players on all galaxy, since SWG was launched, never has an architectturned a single harvester on duralloy steel because he is afraid he might not have enough to place to store. The thinking goes in this order : he would mine it and THEN figure how he will store it. The only thing that stops an architect from mining duralloy steel is because a) it shifted out b) another resource he needs has popped and needs to free LOTS, not STORAGE SPACE...




Absolutely 100% completely true. Making resource stacks take up more space will not limit how much we mine. It hasn't and it wont. The only limiting factor is the number of harvesters we can put down and so many people side step that limit with cross server lot trades. For SOE to think that keeping stack sizes small is them being either completely ignorant of what people are doing or simply not wanting to admit it and it comes at the cost of the smaller players.






Pawlin Construction of Kettemoor.
Harvesters and Crafting stations - Triad Coronet Mall just outside Coronet (-177 -5490)
Architect, House, Furniture, Harvester FAQ
Oprolan the Wookiee of Sunrunner. Cheap resources W. Daeric Talus (-639 -3058)
"Worst FF ever *thumbsdown*" -- Pawlin fan club
"I am not going to win Miss Congeniality again this year in the Senate." -- John McCain

** Please refer to Elyssa's answer
Warryyr
Thu Jun 03, 2004 12:33 am
#215

Yeah, stop dinking with X-wings and fix the mission payouts, already!


Now, with no Musician buffing interface for Musicians to tell if they really buffed someone or not (no one, save doctors with /diagnose, has any means of knowing if another person's secondary stats are buffed or not), AND mission payouts not working, I'm getting hosed FULLY and THOROUGHLY.


Fix this stuff and stop letting the game/other players rip me off, already! Yeesh.



theonebountyhunter
Tue Oct 04, 2005 2:37 pm
#216
so TH, do the dev's plan on addressing the item storage problem that atleast half of all crafters have problems with????



Brutas / Raah
WOOK, Mos Kashyyyk, Tatooine, Eclipse
Winnings @ -6672 -5060 any Vendor
Page 17 of 17
Previous Next