Development Cycle Archive

Thread: 19 Answers 5-26-04

Hedek
Sat May 29, 2004 12:17 am
#196






Thunderheart wrote:





RotorofCorRng wrote:
Okay, you said No.

Why not?

Would the database not benefit from this?





It would actually, but the economy would suffer. Don't think of it in terms of how many items you can make as a player, but rather, how many items all players can make. With only a few thousand playersper server,any player can manufacture enough several thousand items, thus making enough items for eveyone on a server. This creates a situation where the players who are part of the most efficient crafting PA's can saturate a market all by themselves and completely squeeze out most other crafters. If you couple this with that same crafter's ability to get the best possible resources at any given time, it is very easy for a a clever crafter to get the best materials and saturate the market with the best items and make it too difficult for anyone else to try and sell their goods.






If this is indeed what you want -ie limit the amount of items people can do- thereare 2 things to do : one work on the source, and one working on the "owner".


1. Working on the source consists in reducing the amount of resources can mine or increasing the amount of resources needed. Again there are manyways to do this :


a) by increasing the amount of resources each schematic requires


b) by lowering the BER of harvesters or increasing the amount of lots needed, something proportional to BER(example: ber <= 8 = 1 lot and ber > 8 = 2 lots)


c) by modifying the schematics for architects, WS and AS so they require more scout resources.


2. Working on the "owner". Just like a house hasa max amount of items a character would also have a max amount of items he can own no matter where he placed them, be it on a vendorn, a houseor a factory.


Of course any of these changeswould be fiercenerfs to the crafting system, and would push the game into an unhealthy situation where even more players would decide to buy more accounts (but i guess that's something you like) or do more cross-server deals. Regardless of the methods I described above, this is something that is already happening and that is unhealthy for the game. A recent patch made farms impossible to set afaik(structures are destroyed when character is deleted) and this is something good towards a healthy game (just may I remind that already established farms were not affected by the change since the patch didn't includea retro-active check, the check is now applied whenever someone deletes, this is one more thing that helps long established crafters/exploiters over new ones).


The change that was asked by the community, and that SOE rejected would in now way increase the amount of items people can do. Because a)it would not increase the amount of items people can hold since there are many work arounds that players use (some more "fair" than others) and b) because the only real limit is resources, we are not asking for a change that increases the amount of resources we can mine, we are asking for a change that would relieve us from having to use work-arounds to store our items (storage vendors being one) and that at the same time would lighten -we think- your database.


And for the players that arenot using work-arounds because either aren't rich enough(irl)or willing to buy additional accounts (such as me) or that somehow have an "ethic" that makes them not to want to do cross-server trading (me before, then i lost that "ethic" then "gained it back") this would help them be as competitive as others while, let me remind it, NOT increase the amount of items they can produce, because sure they have more place to STORE resources they can not HAVE/GET/MINE more resources.


I certainly wouldn't be wrong when saying that NEVER, in the history of all players on all galaxy, since SWG was launched, never has an architectturned a single harvester on duralloy steel because he is afraid he might not have enough to place to store. The thinking goes in this order : he would mine it and THEN figure how he will store it. The only thing that stops an architect from mining duralloy steel is because a) it shifted out b) another resource he needs has popped and needs to free LOTS, not STORAGE SPACE.


Again Thunderheart, your reasoning here is flawed, andshows alack of understanding on one aspect of the game. Don't be ashamed, we're human beings we can't know all. You certainly know by far more on this game than many of us posting on these boards ever will. I just want you to admit and apologise when you say something wrong (just like when you called the crafting expermentation system a "bug" and related it to being the cause as to why composite armor is overpowered http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=dev_archive&message.id=37939#M37939. You wrote a very well written team letter that would make even your worst "haters" love you, explaining that you are here to tell the devs what the comunity thinks and how we feel. If your post in this thread isn't just your point of view but the one of the whole team, please tell them their thinking is flawed and that, this argument, at least, isn't enough to explain why SOE rejects the request of increasing the stack sizes for crates and resources.

Albion_DeCrappa
Sat May 29, 2004 12:29 am
#197


It would actually, but the economy would suffer. Don't think of it in terms of how many items you can make as a player, but rather, how many items all players can make. With only a few thousand playersper server,any player can manufacture enough several thousand items, thus making enough items for eveyone on a server. This creates a situation where the players who are part of the most efficient crafting PA's can saturate a market all by themselves and completely squeeze out most other crafters. If you couple this with that same crafter's ability to get the best possible resources at any given time, it is very easy for a a clever crafter to get the best materials and saturate the market with the best items and make it too difficult for anyone else to try and sell their goods.


Isn't finding a way to squeeze out the competition an integral part of business?





-Al (+0 Master Bio-Engineer / Master Swordsman and Miner for Hire.)
AlbyCorp Bio-ComponentsNew Coventry, Corellia (-701, 324) Intrepid Galaxy
80% Explorer, 80% Socializer, 40% Killer, 0% Achiever
Schrodinger's cat is dead... not dead... no, dead... wait, not dead...
SELECT * FROM users WHERE clue > 0
We'll never forget the 8/19 bannings, a day of injustice!
Martinb4
Sat May 29, 2004 12:38 am
#198






HemiKeeroc wrote:





Nalein wrote:

IN CASE A SUPER BATTLE DROID MAKES ME **edit** IN MY PANTS





Sorry, I can't resist... Check this out! With the help of a few Combat Medics you too can do anything!


http://www.imagedump.com/index.cgi?pick=get&tp=76474






Yeah, like make your armor hit 0 condition . LOL.





Col- Forbin ~ Master Sharpshooter since Nov 03 ~
Slimjim_Iapkre
Sat May 29, 2004 12:52 am
#199






Thunderheart wrote:





RotorofCorRng wrote:
Okay, you said No.

Why not?

Would the database not benefit from this?





It would actually, but the economy would suffer. Don't think of it in terms of how many items you can make as a player, but rather, how many items all players can make. With only a few thousand playersper server,any player can manufacture enough several thousand items, thus making enough items for eveyone on a server. This creates a situation where the players who are part of the most efficient crafting PA's can saturate a market all by themselves and completely squeeze out most other crafters. If you couple this with that same crafter's ability to get the best possible resources at any given time, it is very easy for a a clever crafter to get the best materials and saturate the market with the best items and make it too difficult for anyone else to try and sell their goods.








TH - the problem here isn't how much can fit into each stack. People want >100k stacks because everyone has so many resources. Giving or not giving the stackability will NOT fix the amount of resources in circulation, it just makes storage easier.


The fact that you can just drop down a house on someone elses *cough*cross-server*cough* lots makes storage essentially infinite. Instead, address the root of the problem - that so many resources exist in the game. Driving through a flat area on a planet and seeing 50+ mineral harvs labeled "<charname> mineral 1" through "<charname> mineral 50" points out the problem pretty quickly. My suggestion:


Stop the massive harvester fields generated by cross-server trades or character create/drop harv/delete character loops. This would be easily accomplished by making changing the harvested resource on a harvester to be an OWNER only item, and not allow standard admins to do this. The check already exists for destroying a harv, simply put it in place for changing the resource being minedas well.



SlimJim Iap'kre

Quality Stim shop selling 400+ stim B's and 600+ stim C's
In Mos Nihil, Tatooine at 275, 5365
and in Sanctuary, Corellia at -1591, -4626
Slimjim_Iapkre
Sat May 29, 2004 12:53 am
#200

Sorry, double post because lithium didn't think I was logged in. And I can't edit it away



SlimJim Iap'kre

Quality Stim shop selling 400+ stim B's and 600+ stim C's
In Mos Nihil, Tatooine at 275, 5365
and in Sanctuary, Corellia at -1591, -4626
NoS_Zilla
Sat May 29, 2004 4:28 am
#201

With everything hinging on the combat balance, It better damn well work as promised. The problem you get with placing all your emphasis on one event, is, if said event shows faults the castle will crumble. SOE expects us to put all our faith in this, and by doing so, have made it a make or brake circumstance. I for one, am still keeping the faith. But this is a ballsy move.(/bow devs) It would appear it's time to sh!t or get off the pot!
/salute



NoS Mall-Dragons Hold-Corellia
Ubar Loot Vendor -1947 -4522
NoS Chef Vendor -1941 -4546



-------------------------
Setiere
Zilla
"You can get much further with a kind word and a gun than you can with a kind word alone."
Al Capone.
SWG_Bobo
Sat May 29, 2004 6:03 am
#202

I have read most of the responses regarding this post.


I have currently 5 accounts with various master professions on each.


First, the Musician. I really dont mean to flame, But are you stupid or something? The biggest problem as a master musician is the fact that he has no idea of how long the buff will take, if the buff took or how long that buff he just did will last on the customer. Screw what the customer thinks if he even realizes even how to check his secondary stats! Give us a similar way that medics have to check.


Inventory issues. Yea, I dont have any problems with storage. Of course, then again I have 5 accounts. 2 large houses, 3 small houses and two medium houses. Oh, and one merchant tent. Get the hint?


Food filling stacking? Anyone here been able to food stack? If all my other buffs and even my TEF disappear with death, how hard can it be to clear the stomach. Perhaps they should put in a stomach pump to clear. A doctor skill? Hmm, but whats funny is that they would be clearing a stomach thats from a previous clone, before the food was consumed.


Weaponsmith- new looted schematics and new schematics. Problem with the current new loot schematic is each require other looted items which costs to much and puts more focas on the player loot system. The new drop looted weapons seem to sell better then "best weapons the masterweaponsmith can make" weapons. If you do give the weaponsmith more perm weapon schematic, please make them worth more then the looted ones for gods sake.


Artisan was given so great power to devolop Vehicles and paint. How many paints actually sell? I got one that has been sitting on my vendor a month after i was given the schematic. WHO CARES! especially since the vehicle doesnt last as long as the paint does!


Animations. I recommend doing away with half the animations that people dont use in put in the ones people really want. Whats that old saying? "You've made your bed, now lie in it." Not in this universe!


Merchant NPC vendors. - think this should have more choices for the merchant when creating an NCP vendor rather then the ID. Personally, I think the Image Designer profession is useless and should be done away with. Allow characters to change their own stat migration again. I dont think its anyones business of what my secondary stats are or should be.


Tailor- COME ON ALREADY! This should be fixed right away. Stop playing around! Stop the expansion projects and focas on this one thing! Think you can muster anough mind concentration to fix this easy bug that has been huanting the tailor profession since freaking launch!!!!!!!!!!!


I cant wait to bring some other issues up as well next week at FanFest. See you there! You are sooo going to hate me.





May the force be with you...always.
How does a wise Jedi become wise?

He asks questions!

Bandora-
Master Weaponsmith/ Master Merchant/ Master Artisan/Freelance Pilot
Cafa
Sat May 29, 2004 10:21 am
#203






Mor-Dan wrote:
you REALLY want to fix the economy? here's what you do. it is VERY simple, in my opinion...

no more admin/hopper rights on harvesters or factories. this virtually eliminates cross server trades, because no one is going to come back week after week to check these things. it generates more income for SOE because lone crafters woul have to buy more accounts to have more than 10 lots, and it reduces the number harvesters in the world reducing the amount of resources that are drawn in.

to dominate a market you either have to A) out pay everyone else for resources, or B) be in a guild where everyone harvs whatever you tell them to.

then, just as you put a 50k cap on 14 day trials, put a 50mil cap on every other account.






Oh, I'm going to reply to the statement from TH, but first in response to you:


This would actually HELP me. Between my 7 core accounts and the 17 others I can log into at will to move harvestors my group/guild would profit immensely. Too bad you, as the devs have shown by their actions, only have solutions that hurt crafters who develop in-game relationships through guilds/friendships. Some of us, OTOH, have prepared for the NERFbat to hit from almost any corner in response to the choir of whiners that have successfully prodded the developers/managers of this game to BALANCE things by taking away from the playerbase that is (apparently) less vocal.


Fivo Asia




- Strength In Numbers - Loyal Subjects of the Empire
Asia Brothers Industries - Asia Hall SiN CiTY, Dantooine (Offers Vendor at -4703 -1404)
A player bodyguard can't protect you either, something agroes you, you are dead. The
only difference between a pet and the person, is you pay the person to stand there
and watch you die. -- Straker Atrella

Tyrannux
Sun May 30, 2004 12:56 am
#204

Woot another dumb explanation from a design team that has no idea what goes on inside their own game! Congrats to Thundernewb and the rest of the design team for ignoring yet another very reasonable design change requested by the playerbase...
MasterWilson
Sun May 30, 2004 5:01 am
#205

Give the man a break. Some of you are ridiculous...
buffbc
Mon May 31, 2004 5:58 pm
#206


What? There is nothing personal in these posts, any negative posts certainly seem valid, they are posting their opinion about something TH has talked about. Just because they are griping doesn't mean they cannot make a post. I thought that was one reason to get feedback.


Anyway, the inventory issue. I wasn't really surprised that we aren't seeing resource stacks expanded, but I am disappointed. As many have pointed out, many crafters (myself included) have a ton of resources, and are using different methods of storing them that are cluttering up the databases (and the landscape!) You aren't keeping anyone down, there will always be ways around it. And if there weren't, then I'm betting you would see a lot less crafting going on. It would just be too much of a hassle for many, again myself included.


Now, TH you didn't say anything about the second half of that Architect question, about component stacking.


This wouldn't be an improvement, but more of a bug fix, as certain items like Ore Mining Units do not stack at all, even doing a run of 100 is incredibly annoying...why is this still happening? Is it really that big a deal to make all components stack in 10's, 25's or 100's?


I would happily live with stacks of 10's. Sometimes it is frustrating enough moving items from our inventory to a factory or vice versa, let alone 100's of components! Anything you guys can do to fix this problem would be invaluable.





Joeble
Master Architect/Master Artisan//Merchant/Pistoleer
NeilG
Tue Jun 01, 2004 2:05 am
#207

Will the players who left the game for a month or two, then came back with new characters be eligable for this veteran rewards program?

I'm not talking about casual players either, these people have put in hundereds of beta hours, logged hundereds of bugs, and will probably see nothing in return because of the system I fear you're going to use in order to check "eligable" players.

Of course, this reward system does seem more like you're rewarding people who have paid you the most, but it'd be nice to see that you will recognise players based on their efforts, not their invoices.

(The obvious way is to track people using credit card details to see if they have been on before, or using their home address in their account, or something that wouldn't change if the player decided to take something as simple as a vacation.)

With the system you will probably use, I see a lot of player missing out.



You want it ? You got it !
Bughunt
Tue Jun 01, 2004 4:24 am
#208





Armorsmith


Even though the Giant Dune Kimogila is the hardest and rarest of all the creatures that drop RIS components, its drop rate is by far the lowest. Will the drop rate for the Giant Dune Kimogila scale be raised so as to be commensurate with the other RIS components?



No, the drop rate for Giant Dune Kimogila scales will not be increased. RIS armor is equivalent to "epic quest" armor and as such, the drop rate is one of the only ways to control difficulty. RIS armor is meant to be this difficult to acquire. Because the various changes since launch, it certainly doesn’t seem that RIS is epic armor, but after the combat balance, all of these details will make more sense.


-----------------


Who are you making this game for, the few Power users, those lucky enough to have a Jedi, who? The economy on my server is out of control becouse things are to rare. We all pay the same amount each month for this game and it is not fair that only a few are in control or have everything.


A near 0 drop rate is just not enough. It only drives the purchase price to levels to way beyond what it should be.


Also no way is this Epic armor having an Acid and stun hole, at least remove the acid hole. Will it also have a Lightsabre hole as well?


When comes to armorsmiths it seems to me that the 12 point crafter are in total control of the market. How about fixing things so you do not need Magic Items to do well in this game increase the value of profession skill.




Vendor Tent located on Rori in Galatorbria 380 -1836

Otio Eta - Elder Jedi
Otio-Eta - Munitions Master, RIS
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