Development Cycle Archive
Thread: Group Looting Changes
Morgath
Sat Feb 05, 2005 5:54 am
#209
so now that the lotto system a la EQ 2 is coming, is the encounter locking going to be added too? This works well in EQ 2 to prevent folks running in and kill stealing an already engaged mob / group (doesnt help with camping tho)
Tomper
Sat Feb 05, 2005 6:26 am
#210
Encounter Locking will probably not work in SWG. I can forsee the pro-looters making some fast macro-auto-attack in the Acklay cave, thus always getting the fist hit on the Acklay even though a large group is in the cave ready as well.
Let all who want to fight a target fight it, but let the group that does the most damage in total get looting rights.
DonjoGrget
Sat Feb 05, 2005 10:34 am
#211
Nnekk wrote:New Idea?What if the whole loot system was a lottery? As in the damage given to a npc/creature would be converted to points from the percentage of damage done by a character. Then, when the npc/creature is dead, an auto loot is done with the winner of the lottery given the opportunity to take the loot, any piece or all of it, witht he pieces he/she did not want being passed onto the next person in line in the lottery giving them the same option as the first lottery winner and so on until all items are looted from the corpse.For example. I deal out a total of 5k damge to a 100k HAM npc. That gives me 5% of the damage done in the kill. Which translates into 5 lottery points. Which means I would have a 5/100 chance (or merely a 5% chance) of winnng the lottery for that particular kill. Some who dealt 60k of damge to the same npc would have a 60/100 chance (60%) of winning.Camping spawns would not always pay off and those that regulary get outdamged by large groups or Uber players would have a minute chance at getting something every once in a while.The people who do the most damge would get most of the goods. I propose that it no be a winner take all situation and that there should be a 2nd, 3rd, and so on places for prizes every so often.
This would not work because damage isn't usually done by the tanks. One of the few tanks that can acctually do damage is the swordsman, and sometimes pikeman. This is how tanking is in most MMO's and it is like that here. So just because people aren't doing damage doesn't mean they aren't doing any work. And like somemone else already brought up, this takes healers out of the equation completely.
I like Anxdiety's idea.
Jab-Ra
Sat Feb 05, 2005 6:12 pm
#212
I for one think it should remain fastest finger. I dont like the lottery in real life and i dont want it when im playing a game. I like to have the feeling that it is up to me to get the loot, not just some random luck.
aries_liak
Sat Feb 05, 2005 6:24 pm
#213
Nnekk wrote:
New Idea?
What if the whole loot system was a lottery? As in the damage given to a npc/creature would be converted to points from the percentage of damage done by a character. Then, when the npc/creature is dead, an auto loot is done with the winner of the lottery given the opportunity to take the loot, any piece or all of it, witht he pieces he/she did not want being passed onto the next person in line in the lottery giving them the same option as the first lottery winner and so on until all items are looted from the corpse.
For example. I deal out a total of 5k damge to a 100k HAM npc. That gives me 5% of the damage done in the kill. Which translates into 5 lottery points. Which means I would have a 5/100 chance (or merely a 5% chance) of winnng the lottery for that particular kill. Some who dealt 60k of damge to the same npc would have a 60/100 chance (60%) of winning.
Camping spawns would not always pay off and those that regulary get outdamged by large groups or Uber players would have a minute chance at getting something every once in a while.
The people who do the most damge would get most of the goods. I propose that it no be a winner take all situation and that there should be a 2nd, 3rd, and so on places for prizes every so often.
I really like this idea. Great idea to curb camping and kill stealing.
SaleusCorwen
Sun Feb 06, 2005 12:13 am
#214
Jab-Ra wrote:
I for one think it should remain fastest finger. I dont like the lottery in real life and i dont want it when im playing a game. I like to have the feeling that it is up to me to get the loot, not just some random luck.
isn't that whats great about the new purposed system though, it can still be like how you want it...
but it give those who don't like it the an option they like too..
its a win-win situation...
Karquile
Sun Feb 06, 2005 1:44 am
#215
Here's a variation on the Loot Revamp that might work. You can assume radial menu equivalents for any and all /commands mentioned.
1. When a mob dies, the group that did the most damage has looting privileges. (A solo player is considered a group of 1 for this test.)
2. By default when a group is formed, everyone has group looting rights.
3. The group leader controls looting rights for individual group members or the whole group at once with the /grantLootingRights, /revokeLootingRights, /grantAllLooting, and /revokeAllLooting commands.
4. The group leader can also set three looting modes for the group: Free,Sequential and Random.
5. When a player's grouphas loot privileges for a corpse, and aplayer with looting rights issuesthe/loot command within 64m of the corpse, what happens next depends on the looting mode. In Free mode, the player who issued the command immediately gets the loot, if he or she has inventory space. In Sequential and Random mode, the game server makes a list of all group members within 64m of the corpse who have both looting rights and inventory space, and gives the loot item either to the rotating "next player" on this list for Sequential mode, or to a random player on the list in Random mode.
6. If there are no eligible players with looting rights and inventory space within 64m, the loot stays on the corpse pending the next attempt.
7.Cash could be evenly split among all group members with looting rights, so people get something for their time even if someone else got the pearl.
What do you all think?
cpotter13
Sun Feb 06, 2005 10:05 am
#216
good idea delay it....this is wanted by 85% of the poeple, at least
"everybody should get a piece of the loot." <--- are you kidding me?
first shot locking combat = invitation for lameness, worse than kill stealing
"everybody should get a piece of the loot." <--- are you kidding me?
first shot locking combat = invitation for lameness, worse than kill stealing
Message Edited by cpotter13 on 02-06-2005 12:18 PM
Claothera
Mon Feb 07, 2005 12:25 am
#218
Anything that discourages uber-leetness and encourages less combative characters (i.e. medics) to group-hunt is a good thing. My feeling was that instead of a dropped MOB acting as a singlestorage container for a single set of item(s), insteadEVERYONE in the group has some kind of chance to loot something unique as the MOB is vanquished (i.e. no dead mob container, rather item granted directly from system).
The chance to loot something shouldn't be modified by damage dealt,because there are important factors that aren't considered here for support characters like medics. I propose that if a group of 4defeats a single MOB, then an individual loot calculationbe done for each member of the group that is within maximum combat range (plus buffer, say perhaps 75m), regardless of damage dealt. This would not only de-bias looting to the elite, but also increase the willingness of support characters to participate in hunts. Perhaps everyone will get lucky and everyone will loot something nice, or perhaps only 1 or 2 will get something. The baseline percentage could bereduced by a) size of the groupand increased by b) level of MOB. This system eliminates the need to have a pre-determined looting system set by the group leader. What about leeches you say? If someone is leeching, not helping or contributing to the fight but still getting loot, then it should be the responsibilty of the group leader to remove that person from the group.
This system changes the focus of group hunting from selfishness to group fun. People might hunt in groups more for the reason it was intended... fun and camraderie. As a matter of fact, the bigger the group, the more possible loot (since it will be possible for everyone to get something with each defeated MOB)!
The existing super-loot has caused problems with the economy of SWG and has hurt crafters. So what if 4 out of a group of 7rolled lucky and are granteda nightsister lance from a single dropped nightsister? Everyone took part, everyone wants loot, and what harm would it do? By increasing the commonness of loot in this way, you help the economy by driving down massive inflation and increase the fun factor for the individual player, regardless of their role in the group. All you're doing is creating more items possibly, but this is tempered by inherent item-storage limits by character and structure. One could argue that this will eventually make rare items less unique, but one could also say that the same thing happened with Jedi.
Does this help with kill-stealing? No. In this system, if a solo fighter-type runs up and taps an engaged MOB, then that individual has also given him or herself a chance to loot something. That isn't necessarily fair, but encounter locking MOBs to the first attacker doesn't seem to be a great solution either. Any ideas on this?
In summary, a loot-roll calculation should be done for everyone in the group. There is no single dead MOB container of loot objects. Loot is, rather,granted to each member of the group depending on how the system rolls on its internal charts. For each MOB defeated, perhaps no one gets anything, perhaps everyone gets something. But all in all, what harm could this system possibly do?
toltol
Mon Feb 07, 2005 11:47 am
#219
AnXdiety wrote:
Tiggs wrote:That is one of the things we want to address
weaponmaster88 wrote:PLZ make the max loot range 64m, or even better, make it relevent to your weapons range. i just don't see why as a carbineer i have to have a battle disadvantage if i want to loot.
Is the issue that the loot people want only drops in singles going to be addressed? For example you could take a group of 5 out to kill a krayt or an elder, and after that 20 minutes huge ham beating we give them they drop a single crystal or pearl. Only 1 person is rewarded for the work involved. Just allow each person to have their own independant roll for loot on the creature. Much in the same manner as group harvesting works currently. This would ENCOURAGE grouping rather than the solo mentality. People solo primarily because it ensures they get the loot that they want.
Exactly, whats the point in grouping to kill a highlevel mob and then only one(!!!) player gets the loot (through ninja looting / round robin / lottery / what ever), best choice would be to give everyone the chance to individually loot something from a corpse.
darthgood
Mon Feb 07, 2005 4:20 pm
#220
question, why cant the old way be implemented again, Just turn on the system messages again. If you in group, and someone loots something, a system message pops up saying what was looted.
Karquile
Mon Feb 07, 2005 6:19 pm
#221
toltol wrote:
Exactly, whats the point in grouping to kill a highlevel mob and then only one(!!!) player gets the loot (through ninja looting / round robin / lottery / what ever), best choice would be to give everyone the chance to individually loot something from a corpse.
AnXdiety wrote: Is the issue that the loot people want only drops in singles going to be addressed? For example you could take a group of 5 out to kill a krayt or an elder, and after that 20 minutes huge ham beating we give them they drop a single crystal or pearl. Only 1 person is rewarded for the work involved. Just allow each person to have their own independant roll for loot on the creature. Much in the same manner as group harvesting works currently. This would ENCOURAGE grouping rather than the solo mentality. People solo primarily because it ensures they get the loot that they want.
When you put in a series of changes designed to improve the fairness of looting, you don't necessarily also want to increase the total amount of loot in the game. (If you do want to increase it, that's a separate design decision.)
So ifthere's presently a 40% chance (I made that number up)that a krayt being killed results in a new pearl being added to the game, then after the fairness changes go in, you still want, on average, 4 new pearls created for every 10 krayts killed.
The interesting thing about the above suggested system is that in theory you don't need to care about groups anymore. You could just give everybody who issues a /loot command on a krayt corpse (in the above example) a
0.4 * (mydamage / totaldamage)
chance of looting a pearl. (In order for this to be fair, you'd have to cap mydamage against final-blow overkill, so someone doesn't march up to a dragon with 200 HAM left, hit it for 2K with a heavy weapon and get unearned loot chances from the meaningless 1800 points.)
I would support having something like this as an OPTION, and I bet a lot of people would use it. But lots of times, people would prefer to know "who's next" based on their own guild plans etc. Round robin or /grantLootRights would be better for them.