Development Cycle Archive
Thread: AT-ST changes on Test Center
The flame damage, as every single player seems to be screaming to the devs deaf ears, is exactly what needs to be fixed.
The damage per tick should be based on the damage after armor calculation. Changing this, whilst leaving he AT-ST as is, would have been the perfect solution. Rocket launchers, particle beam cannons, and other heavy weapons should be the weapon of choice for downing them, not a flamethrower - I mean, you don't ever see a flamethrower used as an anti-tank weapon.
In fact, all a commando need ever use is a flamethrower. Why use the wide range ofexpendable weapons when you can do way more damage just using the same one? This ain't right.
Just to stress it one last time, it's flamethrowers that were/are broken, not AT-STs!
Okay, I can understand the PvE nerfing, although the devs should of course realise that since players still can't tank mobs due to the mess of the HAM system, it's going toresult ineven more creature handlers. I know I'm planning on dropping master weaponsmith to get master CH. Not needing to dabble in CH to solo tough mobs - and it's not like the resultingloot drops in SWG are that awesome - was practically the only advantage of being an overt imperial (and quite balanced by the relatively high risk of having your 1-week-of-faction-grinding pet ganked in under 30 seconds by a single rebel). I'd be willing to say SWG will never have the group dynamic and organisation seen in something like EQ, because the creature AI, HAM system, and skill system preclude it to the degree it could never be fixed without launching a new game. Also, since players are so used to soloing, they'll simply cry nerf and quit rather than form neat little 6 person groups and set up healing rotations and suchlike.
There's nothing wrong with SWG being the solo player's MMORPG, and the devs need to realise this. Because if they try and compete with EverQuest or even DAOC, they'll lose. If people want to take down a tough mob in SWG, there was a nice, and realisticsimplicity in the fact they could subscribe to the empire, prove their loyalty over a month or so of missions, then takean AT-ST squad out to do it. Then, if they wanted to turn traitor andjoin the rebellion or go factionless, they could.
I find it hard to understand an AT-ST being described as 'overpowered' as that implies it's drasically more powerful than something - but what? A character who hasn't built the faction to get one? That's like complaining a master commando is more powerful than a novice one. There's nothing precluding any player from putting in the hours to get one. More powerful thanits rebel equivalent? Moot point, since nobody uses one in PvP, and regardless, it can be soloed by a commando. More powerful than most creatures? Probably, but the only creatures worth killing are Krayts and force sensitives, both of which can stillbe soloed by riflemen, smugglers and most other dabblers- who take less time and effort to get the appropriate skills than someone with 3 AT-STs, and fight with no risk of losing what they've earned.
In short, I feel they're fixing the wrong problem, and taking some of the fun and enjoyment out of the game for little or no reason.
this is total bs. i can understand and agree with having only 1 ATST out at a time. Every one should be able to have at leist 2 faction out, excluding the ATST.
Novice CH = %20.4
Way to go SOE! That what SWG really needs, an expansion to the zoo!
I have a couple questions about the changes:
1) Did anyone from SOE or the Development team actually ever watch Star Wars?
2) Does anyone from SOE or the Development team play the game?
3) Are you all a bunch of Rebel fanboi's?
And lastly..
4) DO YOU HAVE ANY FORESIGHT AT ALL! HOW CAN YOU NOT SEE WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN AFTER THESE CHANGES!?!?!
I may be misunderstanding, and tell me if I am, but if there is a 75% reduction in damage in PvP battles then the Scalp Slam is capable of doing 12,000 damage? That seems a bit extreme. And what exactly were you doing while the TKA wiped out your beloved AT-ST? Were you standing around yelling "aa" or "a" or "attack"? Or were youtrying to kill the TKA with your character? (you should have some combat skills if you are PvP'ing)
Lodacai wrote:
I can tell you, however, that the current version of the AT-ST with the higher armorresists, was very easy to kill in PvP. I can tell you that mine was killed by a TKA in 6 rapid hits of "Scalp Slam", dishing out over 3,000 hit points of damage per hit, those hits coming about every 2 seconds.
Yes, even metal a melting point. AND/OR The fire heats the metal (metal is a GREAT conductor of heat) which in turn burns the driver inside.
Lorelli wrote:
can you please explain to me how a flamethrower effects something that is plated in metal?
TheGragg wrote:
You guys said that you needed to come up with a way to entice more people to join the Empire, well this isn't it. Limiting the atst to one per person is fine, but you've made it practically worthless now. Nobody uses it in pvp and nobody will use it at all now! And explain to me what good one trooper is? Seeing three troopers follow a player around is a lot more starwarsy then watching a P-O-K-E-M-O-M (can you believe they filter this word?!) wannabe walk around with three tigers in tow! Why did u ignore the suggestions to make the number of trooper type faction pets dependent apon rank? Give rank some meaning besides giving us an increased faction point cap. Once again I get the impression that the dev's don't have a clue what the players want.
you could not have said it any better
Your all forgeting something called (creature level) so lets say i have a AT ST out.. depending on its level (which is obvisouly high) do you really thing that my level 70 cap will allow me to bring out another pet?!
serisould cap at 70 the only time i can have 3 pets out(considering the new nerfs) is when i use extreamly low non-armored CH pets.. which if you didnt notice is pointless in pvp.
Also all those that go CH cause it gives them 3 pets will be disapointed when they arrive at master and can only call 3 krevels lol..
CONFESSIONS of an AT-ST owner:
I'm Zabrack, it cost me 14,500 fp to buy an AT-ST. (discount for being a Master Smuggler) It actually cost me more then that since I had to buy the Imperial ranks to hold that much fp to begin with.
I have owned my AT-ST less then a week.
I have never farmed holos with it in the force crystal caves, nor do I intend to. REASON? In my pre-at-st days I had AT-ST owners kill-steal from me and I refuse to do that to others. Call me an idealist.
I have never farmed Krayt Dragons with it.
I use it for personal protection when doing Large Rebel Base missions. I rarely engage it because when I do, it sucks the xp into the toilet.
Occasionially I HAVE killed fs NPCs with it when they popped up on my radar. Occassionally I HAVE used it to bail me out of a hairy mission that went awry. Occasionally I HAVE used it to kill rebel players.
When I see a rebel commando coming, I store it and run. I don't like having to do that but I'm no longer a Master Smuggler and to replace it would cost 18,900 faction (a week or more of faction hunting).
Some rebel-posters seem to think we all use it to farm dragon pearls, krayt hides, force crystals and holocrons. That's an extreme exaggeration although since I myself have been victimized by it I would never say it doesnt happen. I've never gotten any of those items in almost a week of owning an AT-ST.
tuinal wrote:
Oh, and further to the point of imperials with AT-STs monopolising the force caves, I feel this is more a result of the absolute screw-up of the holocron drop system, than the AT-ST.
I don't think those caves are a major source of holocrons.Other sourcesprovide more holocrons in less time with lesscompetition.I can get a surface marshal mission on Naboo andget 10 SMs from it in under half an hour with nothing more than my rifle and a rock beetle. Someone with AT-STs in the caves would probably get like three kills in the same time because the spawn rate sucks, it's always camped, and everyone in there jumps on the FS NPCs the instant they appear.
Rebels can camp whatever Imperial base has dark troopers (same problems as caves) or they can do faction terminal missions and milk multiple holocron sources from each base with minimal risk and no competition.
LordNefarious wrote:
ATST dont need a nerf. They are weak as is...
Did you notice the word nerf in Thunderhearts post anywhere?
Would you call adding 46,000 HAM a nerf?
I wouldn't.
It's a nerf when the armor rating and important resists are being reduced so it gets killed faster than before even with the increased HAM.
DeQuosaek wrote:
LordNefarious wrote:
ATST dont need a nerf. They are weak as is...
Did you notice the word nerf in Thunderhearts post anywhere?
Would you call adding 46,000 HAM a nerf?
I wouldn't.
DeQuosaek wrote:
Yes, even metal a melting point. AND/OR The fire heats the metal (metal is a GREAT conductor of heat) which in turn burns the driver inside.
Lorelli wrote:
can you please explain to me how a flamethrower effects something that is plated in metal?
I'm pretty sure most people complaining about flamethrowers, myself included, aren't trying to say AT-STs should be invulnerable to them, but thatthey shouldn't bea mile more effective than any other weapon. Logic would suggest that the harder to make, disposable rocket launchers and heavy beam cannonsshould be the sort of thing usedagainst heavy armor - and the anti vehicular mines. Considering the flamethrower's superb against infantry (as it should be, no argument about that), making it also superb against heavy armor flies in the face of both game balance and realism.
The fact burn damage totally ignores armor could almost be described as a bug. I certainly can't say whether or not it's intentional. Regardless, they're 'fixing' the AT-ST, when the problem is the flamethrower.
LLJK_Griz wrote:
They cost too much, you can't heal it so it's only good for a couple faction missions before you have to put it away to let it regen, they cost too much, wounds accumulate rapidly and are not healable, they cost too much, ONE REBEL COMMANDO will kill your 6-30k faction point investment with ONE SHOT. And did I mention they cost too much?
I could be wrong, but I've read the cost may be reduced. And the HAM is being raised by 46 THOUSAND points. Yes, thousand. They will not be able to be killed with one shot. (And I seriously doubt they can be killed with one shot as is - show me a screenshot)
No one complains about rebel marinesand stormtroopers being useless because they only cost 200 or whatever. You lose one, no big deal, go do a mission or twoand you have enough to replace it.
A mission or two? First of all they cost 450 FP for any decent ones, and even if they were 200 FP, I've never gotten 100 points fromone factional mission (even with the bonus)
Commandos should have the heavy hitting power to take out big enemies, but they shouldn't be able to use a single weapon for every purpose. Flame DOT ignores armor and resists so there's no reason for a commando to use anything else (besides the launcher pistol for anti-turret).
Eh, there's no reason for a pistoleer to use anything but a pistol. /shrug And I think high heat resistances would be a good reason not to use a flamethrower, but I don't understand why the DoT would ignore armor and resists. I'll agree with you there that it doesn't make much sense for that to happen.