Development Cycle Archive

First, consider that an Architect needs 70 structure modules to build a heavy mineral harvester, 100 to build a large house, 150 to build a PA hall.

Next, consider that it takes something like 2-3 hours to make a run of 100 structure modules.

The limit of 100 pretty much puts architects out of business by making it incredibly difficult to stockpile enough structure modules to craft anything. It pretty much dooms us to the following:

Log in.
Get 100 SMs out of the factory
Make a schematic, start the factory
Craft one house or harvester.
Log out.

Pretty exciting, isn't it?

As a master architect, I could live with a limit of 100 IF I could make wall modules without making structure modules - i.e. if there was a 'master schematic' that made walls without any subassemblies.

Failing that, a practical minimum is something like 500 so that I can have a more reasonable schedule, something like this:

Monday - empty harvesters, make 500 structure modules.
Tuesday - Turn 500 structure modules into 50 wall modules.
Wednesday, Thursday - Smaller factory runs of other components
Friday - Make a bunch of stuff + sell it over the weekend.

Since most of what we craft involves about a 60:1 or 70:1 reduction from components to finished products, we're not causing database bloat by filling the world with junk.

I am sure many of my fellow crafters have brought up many of these points, I am a Doctor and my factory crates allow for 50 items and people like to buy full crates. With a cap of 100 on sub components it will never be possible to make full crates of Stim D, Stim E, Enhance D's etc the max will be like 33 units to a crate.

If your worried about database size this is going to casue your database to grow even more as the amount of "Scrap" I will have will be considerable due to the identical serial number issues I will be forever left with subcomponet crates with 20 items in it that I will never start a fatory run with but find repulsive to throw out.

With all the changes you have made to this game in the first 3 months of launch in the name of the Database, it makes me think you had some very bad up-front Schema Design and Capacity planning advise. You have mentioned that SCS and the new housing limits were all DB considerations, now this change is a DB consideration. I have the vison of a server room with some guy with a roll of duct tape, a table top fan and an extra 20 Meg hard drive to help out the old aling Sparc 5.

I have played MMORPG games since UO and I have never felt so constrained on storage space as I do in this game, it is really fine for most combat toons mine has no issues, but YOU desigend the system with 280 Different resource types that can all be unique via there stats it was Your design that keeps all these items from stacking and for going from multi entries to a single entry in your database. It seems like you want to punish players for a very poorly thought out system.

I can tell you when I started a doctor I had NO idea I would need to keep a minimum of like 25 different types of resources just to build the basics for my class.

Dropping the Schematics to 100 will HURT players NOT improve the fun of the game, and be counter productive to your database issues.

I think the artificial limiting of resource amounts is fine as it is... basically there are three types of pertinent schematics: Low resource items (stim As, powerups), components, assembled pieces. Only the first type ever has a chance of using all 1000 in a schematic, or even a couple hundred. Components need to have high limits because otherwise things get excessively tedious for the crafter.

Using a structural factory to make walls ends up taking a lot of different schematics, which means for things like heavy mining installations there will either be a lot of unused pieces (with 100x schematics), or only one installation per factory run (with a 70x schematic). Same deal with any component that's used in large amounts.

Limiting is fine for some things. I don't care if I can only make 100 spices or 100 clamps, 100 stim As or whatever at once. But it's already tough to gather the sort of resources to make some fraction of 1000 of something like a stim B or a weapon powerup, and not being able to even make a run of a couple dozen of things that take multiple components would be punishing.

There are a lot of artificial and practical limits on the ultimate utility of a schematic in the game now as it is, and worrying about matching serial numbers isn't likely to add to anyone's enjoyment. Also, having a high limit (500 or more) on schematics doesn't hurt anyone either. No one is ever going to make a killing selling 100 schematics any more than they do now selling 1000x schematics. It would only make things just a tiny bit more tedious all around.

-Corri Agir; Sunrunner

As you can see from the response, architects are the hardest hit by this. I don't know any other profession that makes things requiring so many subcomponents as a wall with 10 structure mods.1000 is a fine limit, but if we have to be limited to less, I'd find 500 acceptable. 100 is completely unacceptable.

If you need to put in a limit, why not base the limit on the type of item? If it's a subcomponent of something, like a structure mod, or an effect controller or a liquid suspension, make it 1000. If it's a finished product, make it 200. Seriously though, I can't imagine there being a good database reason for such a change. Schematics & crates only take up one spot in the database, because they aren't containers. Reducing the number from 1000 to 100 will save a tiny bit of room, but you'd save about as much by reducing it to a number larger than 100 also, since it's a matter of word length, right?

Why should we change schematics to 1000 if it was not even at 1000 to began with! I have been using Food and Chem Factory for a month now and been getting schematics for 100 only! If people are getting schematics at 1000 then they are exploiting this bug and should be punish! Do not change schematics to 1000 because it was not meant to be and you are rewarding exploiters.

Nuldien

Shadowfire Server

Here's the problem - not all crafting is equal.

A doctor crafts a stim that can be used up in minutes.
A chef creates food that lasts for minutes.
A smuggler creates spice that lasts for minutes.
An armorsmith creates armor that is used for days.
A weaponsmith creates weapons that are used for days.
An architect creates structures that last forever.

*ignoring* the balance problems implied in the various durations, it's clear that the first three crafters cannot function unless they are able to craft in bulk. 100 is not bulk.

While I understand the complaint from the WS/AS/Archs, I'd also like to point out that getting 'only' 9 T-21's in a run is hardly a disaster. Most people only buy one at a time and it lasts them days to weeks. As a doctor, it's not uncommon for someone to buy multiple crates of stims (100+) in a single go.

This change to limit schematics to just 100 would be a terrible change for all of us who are crafters. It would not, it seems to me, help with database issues but would increase database problems because each new schematic required would be another item the database has to track, and each new schematic will generate only 100 identical items, which means you will have up to a 10 fold increase in new unique items.

The old 1000 system works just fine. Please don't mess with it!

By the way, an additional result of this change will hurt crafters in more ways: As it currently stands, you can have no more than 50 unique schematics in your datapad. This is because when you access the factory schematic slot, the factory will only list 50 schematics (list truncated as too long after 50). What this means is that if you have 1 schematic in each factory you own, and have more than 50 unique schematics left on your datapad, you can't access some of them in the factory. Limiting schematic size to 100 would mean you'd have to generate more schematics on hand, and this problem is exascerbated by the fact thatschematics for subcomponents which are used in multiple final products, will make the final product schematics become obsolete much faster, since the final product schematic looks for a specific ID number component. For example, I make 100 Blaster Power Handlers, used in almost every advanced gun. I make 10 Laser Rifles (3 each), 10 Laser carbines (3 each), 10 DX2's (4 each), any other final schematic I make which uses this particular lot of BPHs must be destroyed, because once the 100 are used up,that ID number exists no more. And it isn't going to stop us from making more weapons when needed, we still gonna do it - it just eats up more of our time and precious resources!

What this foolish change will do is significantly increasethe time and waste of resources for weaponsmiths (and, I'm certain, for other crafters as well) while makingyour database problem worse, not better. I reallycannot think of a good reasonto want to change the number on schematics from 1000 to 100.

Please don't do this!

Regards,

Colt Coltrain, Master Weaponsmith, Naritus Galaxy

I think that a different max for components and finished products would be a good idea instead of one set number.

With a final assembly that requires 4 or 5 crated items, it will get tedious trying to keep components stocked to produce finished items. I think 1000 is a bit high though, don't you? Maybe 300-500. That might not be what everyone else wants, but it's a compromise that we could live with.

For finished products though, I think 100 is sufficient. I know there are alot of other chores beginners and masters must contend with every day, and I'd like to seemore labor-saving changes made, but i think that just loading an input hopper and pulling 1000 finished products out the other end would really devalue those products.

What the heck are you going to do with 1000 blasters?!?!?! Run a factory every month or three?

Producing several hundred structural units, or GP modulesa pop on the other hand would be very beneficial and time saving.

It HAS to be higher than 100.

A crate of stim_E's for example:
req 3 identical bio-controllers from identical crates

To make a run of 50 stims, I need 150 IDENTICAL bio-controllers (and that's just for ONE crate of stims from one schematic).

So as a doc, 150 is the true minimum I could live with.

If the limit is to be reduced from 1000, please make the limit 500 then?

For Tailors such as myself, there is nothing more annoying that only being able to run 100 metal Fasteners at a time. If I could do 500 at a time, it would be much better..

For Synth Cloth and Reinforced Fiber, I've been running 100 at a time...

My armorers are now asking for more because THEY want to to factory runs of armor and need more panels with the same ID number..

The same could be said for higher end Tailor items that require 4-6-8 identical panels... The ability to run 500-1000 identical panels makes doing factory runs of these higher end items possible.. With a 100 limit, you can only do 15-20 in the factory...

If DB space is the issue, what about Variable item limits? As in 200 for 'normal' items, but 1000 for components??

If we've got the resources, please let us use them!!

Wow, 11 pages. Chances of this post getting noticed? Slim. But, here goes:

My suggestion is to allow schematics to scale to a 1000 or heck, 10000. Limit the output hopper to 100-200 items. This won't addres the "I don't have time to babysit my factory" issue, but I expect it will address database concers and meet *some* player needs. (you can still produce enough items with a schematic for it to be useful in objects that use multiple subcomponents)

The up swing I see on all this, is that many of the master crafters that have something of lock on themarket, will have their lock threatened, becasuse they simply won't be able to keep up with demand. Not a value judgement, just an observation.

To put 100 items in perspective, that's 10 crates of powerups (10 per crate), it takes about 4 hours as I recall from the previous 100 item bug. On a good night I can sell 20 crates on the bazaar. *shrug*

Sweet! Page 12! OH YEAH!
Keep it at 1000. Keep the comments coming. I really think Holo will listen to the comunity on this issue.
DeathInPlaid

As in Architect, I feel I'm most hit by this change. As many crafters may or may not know, Our deeds require anywhere from 30 to 170 Structural Modules. Crafting these by hand is a complete pain in the butt... It is much better for me to throw 40k ore and 10k steel in the factory at night and let it make 200 units over night. Not only will I have to restart my factory every 100 structural modules, but waste more resources making new schematics. Maybe 1000 is too high of a limit, 500 seems like a decent amount though (for architects, at least)

Might I suggest varying limits for schematics based on the type of schematic (structure, generic/weapon, clothing/armor, and food/chemical)?