Development Cycle Archive
Thread: Schematics limited to 100
As a crafting doctor, 100 is completely unacceptable. Anything close to 100 is completelt unacceptable.
I would simply stop crafting for sale.
Example of the worst case, 100 Adv Bio's made, 2 used for the schematic for stim d's IF i get perfect experimentation first time, 98 left, 2 per stim, 49 stims.
No Doctor can ever make a full crate of Stim D's again.
Not to mention we all go back to baby sitting factories again, neve rleaving them, never going to hunt or do anything else if we want to run a business.
500 would be tolerable, but i don't see the whole database problem, i'm going to make them anyway if i need them, cept of cause people will just quit craftingand there will be less made because of that.
I believe that schematic crafting limit should be proportional to the crate size!
This way individual component items like fiberplast panels and GP modules have 500 count schematic limits, while higher end products like armor, weapon powerups and such have a 100 count schematic limit.
Overall I believe that lower schamatic counts will allow up and coming crafters to compete with the masters.
Holocron wrote:
This is an upcoming change on TC. The change was made because this is what schematics were always supposed to be limited to--there is a bug that lets you put in a value larger than 100 right now.
I see some negative reaction to this change. How impactful is it? What is a reasonable limit in your mind?
I'll state up front that there may be DB reasons why we don't want a huge number here, so I will have to check on whether changing it is feasible at all.
I'm afraid I am in the "I don't understand how this fixes any database issues" If I need 1000 items I am still going to create 1000 items. I don't go through the trouble of creating them just for the fun of it. I create them because I need to use them. Making it more tedious for me to do so seems counter productive. I don't see a problem with a limit of 1000. This would be enought to handle the issues that have been raised here. Anything less than that just makes it a pain to create subcombonent based items or any item which is in high demand.
Just echoing the general sentiment here.
I am a weaponsmith thatusually sellabout a hundreditems a day, many of them produced using 5+ subcomponents.
Now if you want an example of how this 100 item limit would work, let's rewind back to the month or so where factories were "broken" and constantly needed to be redeeded. Now this situation wasnt even quite as bad, because I could still make over 100 of the same item, just not in one run, I'd have to redeed my factory. But even while constantly redeeding while I was online and with SIX full factories at my disposal, I was having great diificulty meeting the demands of my customers. It was stressful, and it was unbelievably annoying.
Fast forward to if this change was implemented...Things would be in a very similar state. You'd see many very stressed, very pissed off crafters as we spent what would amount to easily double the time trying to keep up with the demand of our customers. Factories could not run while we were away, and we'd spend every moment online putzing aroud with our factories, experimentation, and assembly of items, with literally no time to do anything else.
If you'd like to keep crafting even moderately enjoyable, please do not change the schematics. If you must, don't go any lower than 500.
Remember also, if you are basing this 100 number off of "testing" that there is a much different economy on the current live servers than there ever was in beta or on Testcenter, and that making such a change to the economy at this point would have dire consequences.
Thoax Dromallet
Master Weaponsmith - Gorath
"Guns don't kill people: People with Thoaxcorp Guns kill people"
505-1000 would be a good limit for reasons stated ahundred times before, multiple component requirements, maximum amount of a finished product being limited, too small runs to make efficient use of time, jada jada..
if schematics are getting lowered to 100, i will not even be able to make full crates, the ABSOLUTE minimum would be 310-320, 500 would be comfortable and I cannot believe the database is going to suffer for a few bits?
Braydin wrote:
Let us use a schematic as a sub combine in a final product. Here is how this would work.
I want to make a "Small Stimpack - D"
I open my crafting tool. I select Biological Effect Controller(BEC). I set the limit at 2 (each Stim-D takes 2), I add the rescources needed to make2 BEC's. I select make schematic.
I open my crafting tool. I select Liquid Suspension(LS). I set the limit at1 (each Stim-D takes 1), I add the rescources needed to make1 LS. I select make schematic.
I open my crafting tool. I select Chemical Release Duration Mechanisims (CRDM). I set the limit at1 (each Stim-D takes 1), I add the rescources needed to make1 CRMD. I select make schematic.
I open my crafting tool. I select Small Stim Pack D. I drag my schematics into the slots for sub combines. I add my Organic and Inorganics needed for the final. I select 100 items . I click Make Schematic.
I open my factory Schematic Slot. I input the Schematic for Small StimPack D. I ask the station what I need for the schematic. The factory tells me I need. x rescource A, y Rescource B, z Rescource C, ect. to fufil my request for 100 stim D's.
I open the factories input hopper. I add x rescource A, y Rescource B, z Rescource C, ect.
I click Start. My factory then takes the total complexity for all sub-combines, and the final combine, and then makes the final product only. Thus not making the sub combine at all, not wasting valuable database space. If i want sub combines to hand create other items.. 100 would be fine at that point.. Increase the crate size to 100.. there by limiting that crate to 1 line of database space.
Effictively changing the schematic size to 100 across the board the way you currently have discussed is going to leave alot of 1 or 2 extra subs for the data bast to keep track of. Because people forget that they have the extras left over and put them in a bag to be used in hand crafting .. where they sit for over a month..wasting database space.
this is a great implementation plan for what I've been saying all along. Making a schematic for the 1 or 2 items for the subcombines is great.
IF THIS WAS IMPLEMENTED AS LISTED HERE. Then 100 unit schematics would be acceptable.
Another Board poster sez -
"I guess I'm one of the few that isn't bothered by this.
So you have to make 9 more schematics to get the same results..."
The rammifications are much broader than this!
- Weapon crafters will only be able to make 9 T-21's max at a time due to them requiring 10 identical power handlers (not that this matters on Tarquinas, we don't get T-21's)
- I can make a grand total of 9 Wall units after two factory run iterations
- I can not even make 1 large harvester in a factory unless it is a gas harvester of which I can make 2 (Cool, burn up to 7 walls making the schematic, then the schematic is impossible to use as I can't have more than 9 identical walls). Yes, I was strongly considering actually doing this at some point due to the fact that failure rates in architecture are devestating. With the old limit of 1000 runs, you could make 13+ harvesters after 3 iterations. Besides, I wanted to see if Harvesters would be crated =)
Holocron sez -
"I'll state up front that there may be DB reasons why we don't want a huge number here, so I will have to check on whether changing it is feasible at all."
I GUARANTEE your database issues will get MUCHworse with this nerf. People will not have as manycrates of items anymore, they will have more individual items. This will mean an EXPLOSION of items in the game.
I don't get why you have factories in the game, and then limit how many items they can produce at all. With factories making crates there isn't a database issue here at all. Heck, if I could make 10,000 of a sub component, and have it all be in a single crate, you bet I'd do it.
Also does anyone remember the house issue and storage, we will wok on restoring the previous numbers, this is another we are going to screw you so we can make you happy getting 300 rather then 1000 like it SHOULD be.
Sorry holo the same tricks dont work over and over again, fix your data base and quit screwing your clients
My feeling is that a limit of 100 is arbitrarily restrictive. I am an architect and an artisan. Already it is tiresome to make walls in a factory. With turning a profit being a great deal of work in architecture (and structure quality being limited to crafting stations), I spend more of my time these days running powerups.
I regularly throw away 25 or more powerups while experimenting to get (a) the combo I need, and (b) perfect quality experimentation. Running 100 of these, when people buy them by the crate of 10, and often quite a few crates, is quite tedious. I set up my schematics for 1000, and I tend to run a few hundred at a time. I have a data 3PO to help store my schematics, and I'm *still* in the process of creating the schematics that are most popular with my customers. And when my resources run out and I need to change what I'm using, I will have to start the process again.
Factory production, in my eyes, is your reward for reaching mastery. You can now take your high quality items created with your well-earned skill, and produce useful quantities of items with ease, while the rest of your time can be spent stocking vendors, offering customer service, gathering resources.
Even without the time consuming labor that it is to develop the right powerup schematic, I don't see any usefulness to limiting the schematic to 100. It is especially limiting in schematics which require a number of identicle sub-components (for example, limiting the factory production of master level chairs, couches and loveseats to a mere 12, as you can never get more than 100 of one kind of synthcloth).
Hope you keep it where it is, or correct the slider to go up to 1000, while defaulting to 100.
Holocron wrote:
I'll state up front that there may be DB reasons why we don't want a huge number here, so I will have to check on whether changing it is feasible at all.
What "spinmaster" told you to say that? Its ridiculous as anyone with any database knowledge knows.
Databases store logically. An item with a serial number would have a field called QUANTITY
It doesnt matter if that QUANTITY is 100 or 1000 (except an extra zero)
It would look something like this:
Quantity 100,Serial Number ABCDEF, ID Blahblahblah,etc
or Quantity 1000000,Serial Number ABCDEF, ID Blahblahblah,etc
"I'll state up front that there may be DB reasons why we don't want a huge number here, so I will have to check on whether changing it is feasible at all."
Is it just more or does anyone else get infuriated when they read this? So you're telling me and the 300,000 other people that you claim to have, who are all paying around $15a month, that you can't do something because your db sucks? That's total crap. I'm sorry but if you're db is this big of a pile of **edit** now, where is this game going to be able to go? I was teetering on whether or not to rebill this month, I think I got my answer today. Especially since Bloodfin has been down most of the day...