Development Cycle Archive
Thread: Great Expectations, Major Schedule Changes and making SWG the finest MMORPG ever
SikotE
Sun Jul 18, 2004 7:43 pm
#2029
LOL these people arent whining they are telling the truth imagine yourself paying for gas every month for a car that didnt run..does that make any sense?? NOT IN THE LEAST BIT..we are complaining because we have been lied to for half a year or more about a fix that should be number 1 priority so before you get on the forums and bash everyone maybe you should cancel your 14 day free trial and try buying a copy of the game and see if you feel like paying for a broken piece of crap.
DarthBrundleFLY
Sun Jul 18, 2004 7:56 pm
#2030
When they announced to a stunned beta community that they were shipping the game live in 2 weeks just over a year ago most thought that this was a horrid idea. The game was FAR from being out of beta...did they listen to the community, sadly no they didnt.
Then they announced the price for this premeturely released game...again a stunned reaction $14.99 a month. The most expensive MMORPG to date, the reason given...We feel Star Wars Galaxies is a premium product that stands way above what else was available at the time. Well every month I see my premium $14.99 taken out of my account but I still have yet to see a premium game delivered.
Master Bounty Hunter 
Lieutenant Imperial Army
Hawk1138
Sun Jul 18, 2004 8:00 pm
#2031
Good for you guys!
*is still a fan*
I have said it time and again that SW:G is 50% of a game without space. IMO focusing on the expansion team wide, will result in a more complete release.
*Reads Sun Tzu*
Hawk
DarthBrundleFLY
Sun Jul 18, 2004 8:03 pm
#2032
Hawk1138 wrote:
Good for you guys!
*is still a fan*
I have said it time and again that SW:G is 50% of a game without space. IMO focusing on the expansion team wide, will result in a more complete release.
*Reads Sun Tzu*
Hawk
I'm hangin out for space too.....BUT i dont see how they can intergrate the expansion on a bug filled core game. It would be like building a 2nd floor on top of a condemed building, why cant you fanboi's see that....
Hawk1138
Sun Jul 18, 2004 8:11 pm
#2033
"why cant you fanboi's see that...."
Because I don't give a crap about your opinion. 
This is not a discussion between you and I. I don't care what your problems are and I'm not your councilor. I don't care if things make sense to you or if you feel your patronage predicates some sort of right of entitlement.
This is not a discussion between you and I. I don't care what your problems are and I'm not your councilor. I don't care if things make sense to you or if you feel your patronage predicates some sort of right of entitlement. Your problem is with some one who is in a position to make a change. I like the product I bought and am therefore happy with my experiance.
Thus, I will continue to voice my satisfaction in threads I know the team reviews, as I am sure they get plenty of "back-seat programer" replies. And, I'd like to balance out the opinion tally! 
And, I'd like to balance out the opinion tally! Hawk
RankorCity
Sun Jul 18, 2004 8:13 pm
#2034
Is anyone besides me even mildly curious as to who keeps locking, then unlocking this thread? Someone who has the power to do such thing is working for us...Trying to prove a point.
Whoever it is, thank you. At least we know someone out there has our interests at heart, and for that...Thank you!
TennerRavenstar
Sun Jul 18, 2004 8:13 pm
#2035
** Warning Long Post Ahead**
It’s with some sense of disbelief I read the initial post by TH. I can hardly believe you actually had the gall to do this.
Well, first off I must say that of all the mistakes, bad calls and poor decisions of the development team so far this one stands out to me as the most glaring. (I believe the development team has made its fair share of mistakes, just as they’ve managed a lot of improvements on the game or the last year’s time).
The cause of the problem
First off, it seems clear to me that the reason behind the problem and the rather sad state of affairs origins in the developers level of ambitions: Starting to create on of the more (if not the most ambitious) MMOG expansion to date including a completely new game / combat system while the initial game is still in dire need of fixes, improvements and balancing. Top that off with the introduction of Jedi’s and a long list of subsequent changes, fixes, revamps and a level of Jedi content that is for more expansive than what is enjoyed by any other class in the game.. and doing it all at once. To put it bluntly, that level of ambitions have now backfired and were all, players and developers alike suffering the consequences.
First off, it seems clear to me that the reason behind the problem and the rather sad state of affairs origins in the developers level of ambitions: Starting to create on of the more (if not the most ambitious) MMOG expansion to date including a completely new game / combat system while the initial game is still in dire need of fixes, improvements and balancing. Top that off with the introduction of Jedi’s and a long list of subsequent changes, fixes, revamps and a level of Jedi content that is for more expansive than what is enjoyed by any other class in the game.. and doing it all at once. To put it bluntly, that level of ambitions have now backfired and were all, players and developers alike suffering the consequences.
The combat rebalance as the end of all woes in the game
Lets be honest here, for more than half a year you’ve chanted “It’ll all be fixed in the combat rebalance”.. “no need to worry” .. “no we can’t answer that now, no we won’t address or fix that now”.. “it’ll be part of the combat rebalance”.. “It’ll be here real soon”.. “just keep talking to your correspondents..”. We’ve heard these things SO many times by now that a lot of us are getting rather sick of it.
Already back in November or September when you first introduced the combat rebalancing chant it seemed a bit to good to be true. In the previous six months fixes to combat and profession related problems were slow in coming and all too often of a poor quality once they hit the live server. Personally I couldn’t help wonder how you would be able to pull this off when you seemed to be struggling with even basic fixes, but in all fairness you just pulled off the rather extensive creature handling rebalance. It looked like the dev team might finally be finding their feet and pull off some major changes to really make SWG all that it could have been.
But alas…
After the CH rebalance the class that had previously ruled the galaxy was reduced to a shadow of its former self. It was explained that this was done simply as the first part of the combat rebalance aimed at January… the CH’s wouldn’t be all that useful for a couple of months but that was accepted as a necessary step in the greater scheme of things.
With January approaching you, the developers were strangely quite about the actual content of the combat rebalancing. Surprising really since you had otherwise shown a lot of effort previously to inform you players of what you were up to, what you were planning and generally good in engaging the player base in discussions about possible changes. Now, facing the biggest change and modification of the game system since launch, you were quite as the grave. And then the combat rebalancing were rescheduled for the first time.
All in all the players were disappointed, but took it fairly well (some were furious some happy.. most accepted that something this big didn’t happen overnight). A new ETA was given. We were told that yes it would take long.. but you wanted to do it right, no cutting corners or half solutions.. you were still set on fixing every combat related issue in the game with one big fix. Well, in the mean time the issues facing a lot of the combat players grew and grew. PvP became increasingly the exclusive domain of mind damaging professions. The less PvP oriented players were shut out to an increasing extent from the GCW due to lack of PvP oriented templates. Bugs were rampant; a lot of specials still didn’t work. A lot of the old problems from launch still prevailed (/waves to the squad leaders and pikemen out there).
The new date for the wonderful fix-all rebalance was hastily approaching, and once again there was no word from the dev’s. No actual suggestions for changes and fixes, we were asked to provide our visions for the different professions, but it never became more than a one way communication of lot lists of ideas and suggestions from the players. The developers never really reported back on the various issues except for limited issues through the correspondents. At least nothing that resembled more than the limited fixes and stop gabs that the developers had previously explained they wanted to avoid since it would lead to a poor end result.
Then about a week or so prior to the supposed ETA of the rebalance hitting the test server, JustG’s now infamous state of the game letter appeared, casually mentioning that the combat rebalancing was pushed back 3-4 months time. People were less than impressed. But at least the letter provided a clear idea of what the devs were aiming for and when. One thing that really had me worried back then was that doing the programming, planning and designing for such a major change is certainly not done over night; it would (will?) take months. At first I thought that since it was being rescheduled in the 11th hour the vast bulk of all that work must have been done and ready.. surely they would be able to give us the parts of this new wonder system that was done. But there was nothing except minor bug fixes. I can’t help but question if the developers have even started on the combat rebalance. They continue to tell us its moving along but takes time, they continue to ask us for input.. but we hear next to nothing concrete in return. Except for the brief glimpse of the changed ham system, there is not one single fact that even suggests that the dev’s have even started working on this massive undertaking that has resulted in almost all combat related problems to be brushed of with a ‘wait till the combat rebalance’.
I truly hope I’m wrong, but I’ve become too jaded to take the word of the dev’s at face value by now. If have truly been working on this for the last six months, show us something, please prove to us that your not just stringing us along .. I can’t believe you can have been working on this for 6 moths now with nothing to show for your effort?
Now, with this post the rebalance has been postponed yet again. For over half a year now you told us “wait until the combat rebalance”. According to the new schedule, by the time you actually get down to doing this, you will have left these issues and problems to fester and hamper our game play for over a year.. That’s a long time considering the game is only now about a year old. Of course, by now its hard to actually believe you when you claim it’ll be done after the release of JTL. We’ve been brushed off three times now, for over half a year, how can you expect us to believe that things will be any different in another half a year? With JTL planned to be released in the fourth quarter of the year, there can’t really be any doubt that the first couple of months following the release will be eating all the dev’s time in order to fix the various issues that always follow the release of a MMOG product like this. At the earliest the dev’s can be expected to have even a fair chance at another big project by around the New Year. Then you actually have to do the work of the rebalance, something that has so far taken you 6 months. So, by my guestimate I can’t see the combat rebalancing happening before February or so. That is if all goes smoothly with JTL.
Aside from the issues of being stiffed for a year with a sub par, broken game system there’s several other reasons why I find your decisions to be ill considered:
The player-developer relationship.
After this, how can you expect us (the players) to take anything you say seriously? I know you’re carefully to state that nothing is set in stone and schedules might change. But three times in a row? Were talking about a “delay” of over a year or more! With your approach to combat related problems having been ‘wait until the rebalance’ and your subsequent reschedules how can you expect the players to take your words serious anymore? How can you expect players to be interested in the development, to provide feedback and to look forward to improvements to the game?
After this, how can you expect us (the players) to take anything you say seriously? I know you’re carefully to state that nothing is set in stone and schedules might change. But three times in a row? Were talking about a “delay” of over a year or more! With your approach to combat related problems having been ‘wait until the rebalance’ and your subsequent reschedules how can you expect the players to take your words serious anymore? How can you expect players to be interested in the development, to provide feedback and to look forward to improvements to the game?
The Jedi
I don’t have a Jedi character, but I’m sure that the Jedi class needs changing and fixing. But hey!.. so does other classes. We are already facing a situation in game where people are beginning to seriously wonder why anyone would want to play anything but a Jedi? Why would anyone be less than they can be, why be cannon fodder for a class that is so clearly stronger, gets more dev attention, gets the largest amount of unique content and on top of that is so central to the star wars saga. You decision to prioritize the Jedi class over the combined sum of all the other combat classes sends a very clear message to players “Be Jedi or be gone”. It is as if you are doing everything you can to downsize the ‘other classes’ while encouraging people to become yet another Jedi?! Is that really your vision of the game?
I don’t have a Jedi character, but I’m sure that the Jedi class needs changing and fixing. But hey!.. so does other classes. We are already facing a situation in game where people are beginning to seriously wonder why anyone would want to play anything but a Jedi? Why would anyone be less than they can be, why be cannon fodder for a class that is so clearly stronger, gets more dev attention, gets the largest amount of unique content and on top of that is so central to the star wars saga. You decision to prioritize the Jedi class over the combined sum of all the other combat classes sends a very clear message to players “Be Jedi or be gone”. It is as if you are doing everything you can to downsize the ‘other classes’ while encouraging people to become yet another Jedi?! Is that really your vision of the game?
The quality of the game
So, you just told us you’re delaying the rebalance for another 6 months or so. Do you find it acceptable to leave this game in a state you yourself have admitted to being problematic for yet another 6 months? Of course your solution to this is now to make a handful of stopgap fixes and changes. The very thing you wanted to avoid 6 months back. This is what you described at as an uneven and unstable table?! Do you really feel it is acceptable to leave the game broken for 6 months and then leave it for another 6 months in the state of an uneven and unstable system?
So, you just told us you’re delaying the rebalance for another 6 months or so. Do you find it acceptable to leave this game in a state you yourself have admitted to being problematic for yet another 6 months? Of course your solution to this is now to make a handful of stopgap fixes and changes. The very thing you wanted to avoid 6 months back. This is what you described at as an uneven and unstable table?! Do you really feel it is acceptable to leave the game broken for 6 months and then leave it for another 6 months in the state of an uneven and unstable system?
In conclusion, I’m still shocked that you can get yourself to do this. That you even consider it is beyond me. Well, you do what you must, but I do hope you will reconsider; you’ve done so before when the player base spoke out. Now is the time to do so again. I don’t know who has the final say so in the matter. Maybe it’s not the developers but the ‘some other group, company or department’ I’ve no idea. But whoever is making this happen doesn’t really matter; the effect will be the same to the players, the quality of the game and the relationship between the developers and the players
Quevey
Sun Jul 18, 2004 8:14 pm
#2036
lol yep you and your alt will have a good time playing with yourselves
ChastTrasprin wrote:
HOORAY, Now all the whiners and complainers will quit the game and leave the rest of us to have fun. All I ever read on these forums are complaints. Maybe you should all realize where the game was when it came out and where it is today. I am 100% positive that these things will be fixed, but I'm also 100% positive you people will still complain. IT IS A GAME!!! IF IT GIVES YOU HEARTACHE, DO NOT PLAY!!!! Games are for you to have fun, not cry foul everytime someone sneezes..........
PS, feel free to flame I will not read this thread again just to see more complaining
Servalac
Sun Jul 18, 2004 8:28 pm
#2037
Hawk1138 wrote:
"why cant you fanboi's see that...."
Because I don't give a crap about your opinion.
Your problem is with some one who is in a position to make a change. I like the product I bought and am therefore happy with my experiance.
Thus, I will continue to voice my satisfaction in threads I know the team reviews, as I am sure they get plenty of "back-seat programer" replies.
Hawk
then why would your opinion matter more than anyone else?
second if the game gives you such great satisfaction then i'm sure you also own a pet rock which you play with pet and i bet even sleep with and if that rocks your boat then best of luck but some of us other people don't like being flatout lied to in the hopes that we will keep playing but hey if your idea of satisfaction is being lied to and playing a broken game which by the way has been broking since beta and how do i know this i've been playing since beta but feel free to offer your opinionabout this game from your 14 day trial experience
Pirrg-Freemoon
Sun Jul 18, 2004 8:32 pm
#2038
Hawk1138 wrote:
"why cant you fanboi's see that...."
Because I don't give a crap about your opinion.
Your problem is with some one who is in a position to make a change. I like the product I bought and am therefore happy with my experiance.
Thus, I will continue to voice my satisfaction in threads I know the team reviews, as I am sure they get plenty of "back-seat programer" replies.
Hawk
Drink the bleach you **edit**ing retard.
Flynn_Nomad
Sun Jul 18, 2004 8:32 pm
#2039
What's the difference WHEN they do the combat balance?
It's gonna be borked, buggy, and Imbalanced just like EVERYTHING else.
Then we will have MORE to bich about because "my composite isnt uber" and "I cant solo a Krayt anymore"
The combat balance is gonna screw up the games balance SO much that you are all gonna scream.
Be careful of what you wish for, you just may get it.
hmmm. $15 dollars X 6 more months of waiting for the CB, umm, I have to pay $90 dollars to wait for a game I already paid for and should be working properly, to be fixed so you can work on a $40 expansion that I shouldn't HAVE to buy to enjoy the original non-expanded game?
Are they assuming we're ALL gonna buy the JTLS?
They need to double their staff, contract it out to India or SOMETHING
shadowviper069
Sun Jul 18, 2004 8:35 pm
#2040
WHATS GOING ON WITH THE FORUMS,
Its been mentioned that post have been deleted and this thread has been locked. I just noticed that ratings have been removed and a post that had over 500 views is now down to 21. Someone at the staff of SWG is reading this so why don't you please speak up instead of squashing opinions from paying customers.
Hawk1138
Sun Jul 18, 2004 8:35 pm
#2041
Servalac wrote:
Hawk1138 wrote:
"why cant you fanboi's see that...."
Because I don't give a crap about your opinion.
Your problem is with some one who is in a position to make a change. I like the product I bought and am therefore happy with my experiance.
Thus, I will continue to voice my satisfaction in threads I know the team reviews, as I am sure they get plenty of "back-seat programer" replies.
Hawk
then why would your opinion matter more than anyone else?
second if the game gives you such great satisfaction then i'm sure you also own a pet rock which you play with pet and i bet even sleep with and if that rocks your boat then best of luck but some of us other people don't like being flatout lied to in the hopes that we will keep playing but hey if your idea of satisfaction is being lied to and playing a broken game which by the way has been broking since beta and how do i know this i've been playing since beta but feel free to offer your opinionabout this game from your 14 day trial experience
hehe...check the date on the name buddy. I've been around ALOT longer than you n00b! And, in any case, your problem, AGAIN, is with some one who can effect a change or result. I can't do ANYTHING for you. I encourage you to direct your remarks to TH or the 'devs' or whatever. My opinion is none of you business.
I've been around ALOT longer than you n00b! And, in any case, your problem, AGAIN, is with some one who can effect a change or result. I can't do ANYTHING for you. I encourage you to direct your remarks to TH or the 'devs' or whatever. My opinion is none of you business. Hawk