Development Cycle Archive

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Meplorium wrote:

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Shug_Ninx wrote:

"Haden, I'm confused. You said you had nine programmers in your origional post but now you say fifteen. Did I misread something?"

We have 9 *designers* on Live, and 15 people capable of "coding" for us, which in this case includes the 9 designers.

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For a game that grosses 4 to 5 million per month, it is understood that gross and profit are two different things, still that is a lot of money for only 15 people, some of which are working on the next title not completely related to this current income. One months gross can pay for 50 full timers for an entire year, yet less than 1/3 that amount arepresent.

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You must remember that there is more than just developers that are being paid. There is Lucas Arts, management, taxes, support staff, rent, bills, stockholders, and probably others. The better way to approach it would be, "why would you alienate those who pay all of this and not bring in some short term help to fix these problems quickly?"

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We dostill plana Smuggler Revamp. I don't have an ETA.

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It was supposed to be before JTL... then after JTL (smuggler has more space content), then CB and GCW came in the way (delayed)... so Smuggler will come after CB and GCW.

No we get a NO ETA !!

Having taken a break from the game in November and just come back--but having watched from a distance--I just have to say that I think you and the rest of the development team have used up your quota of "sorry about that". There's something deeply flawed in the basic management of the Live team for the game. You don't need a Combat Revamp, you need a Management Revamp. Until you do that, the community and the devs are going to be stuck in an endless cycle.

Every single one of the Seven Deadly Sins I wrote about is still with the game; in some cases, the sins have been compounded.

What players need an answer about, once and for all, is this: "Why are so many of the subsystems and individual gameplay features of SWG that do not work properly so hard to fix, and why do the players have to complain so incessantly about them to even get the Live Team to acknowledge that a feature is not working as intended?"

What players need an answer about is, "Why can't the devs think ahead about the consequences of design changes or decisions to the core systems with even half the clarity that the collective playerbase can?" I've been reading and posting to the forums since very early in the development process, and players in substantial numbers at a very early point in the conversation correctly forecasted a number of problems that have arisen in the game. For example, in the many, many debates over what the Jedi system would look like, players sometimes discussed the possibility that the system might simply involve massive amounts of grinding and powerlevelling--and it was clear to virtually everyone who cared about the game that this would be an enormous mistake. Was anyone listening? If they were, why didn't they understand? For virtually every design bottleneck and major problem SWG suffers from, there were plenty of far-sighted Cassandras.

Many of SWG's subsystems and small design features don't work properly; more than a few still have artifacts from the late Beta game embedded within them. Many of SWG's core systems, most especially combat, suffer from problems that many players saw coming a mile away. Worse still, both kinds of problems frequently are aggravated by abrupt design shifts or contradictory changes, where a change in one subsystem breaks another, or where a major shift is made without any real sense from the devs of why, or with any thinking about how such a shift ties into an overall design philosophy.

I personally would be able to come back to the game with a lighter heart and more trust--and replenish the quota of "sorrys" to allow Shug_Ninx and other devs much more slack--if I had any reason to believe that the devs understood what was not working about their process and if they were able to commit to a change in their process. That change has to be partly internal, and the details couldn't be seen by us, only the results. But it should also be external. If you're going to post that you're removing recursive macros, then tell us why you've decided to do that now, what has prompted your change in philosophy, and give us some reason to think you've anticipated the consequences. What are you going to do about the third-party programs that will spring up as a result? Do you understand why people use recursive macros now? Are you willing to make changes to the process of levelling in crafting professions that removes the incentive to use recursive macros? Show us you understand your game and understand the consequences of major changes.

That goes a thousand times more for the Combat Revamp and the GCW. To believe that you're sincerely planning to undertake an effective revamp after JTL, I would have to believe that you understand fully and comprehensively what is wrong with combat and the GCW now. That would mean dropping some of the "Our game is more or less great right now, but of course we always want to improve." It would mean being very clear about where the game has shortcomings, and demonstrating that you understand the roots of those shortcomings. The Revamp can't just be about moving the parts around on the Rube Goldberg machine of the game's overall design: it has to be a complete rethink of what the game is at its core, and thus something of a confession of past mistakes as well.

You don't get by with a simple, "I miscommunicated" any more--or just a simple "oops, sorry". More is needed.

Thanks for the reply but I think its a load of crap myself.

Thanks for planning on releasing another game for me to buy before fixing the one I already have, If you were managing any other type of business I know for a fact you would be bankrupt by now.

I want to start off by emphasizing that I very much appreciate Mr. Blackman for coming up and confronting the issue directly (this time at least) and not just issuing vague statements about the infamous interviews. I feel much better now, but still not good. Here are some other issues that he has commented on that really rang bad with me, and definitely need either clarification, or outright changing. I am quoting antares_Kauri because he hit the nail on the head with these and I doubt anyone could say it better.

Mr. Blackman, I would like to hear your response to these statements.

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antares_Kauri wrote:

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"Really what’s happened here is that we realized that perception about combat balance in the community really started to encompass more than what we had originally intended. So we’re stepping back from it and saying, “OK, how can we actually do that?” and meet the community’s expectations with the combat balance, which again we are now calling the combat revamp. So really what’s happened is that we’re looking at increasing the scope of the changes and the updates and additions that we were going to make with the combat balance and make it more creative."

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Here it appears you are blaming the players for raising the expectations of the combat revamp. We were not the ones who had "Wait for the combat balance" tossed at us as a response to nearly every one of our core concerns. Look at the Pikeman 10 Answers as an example (7/10 answers were to wait for combat balance). That's a minor example, too. Almost all of our combat concerns were answered with the combat balance since November. We were not the ones who raised the expectations, we were given the expectation. What were you meaning by this comment?

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"GI: What about those gamers who really aren’t interested in the path of the Jedi? What’s going to keep them playing after seeing two publishes that have been directly focused on the Jedi and their powers?

Blackman: Well made it so Jedi are fairly inter-dependent with the other professions. I think fighting alongside a Jedi is cool and exciting and if you haven’t done it yet I suggest you go and try it out. The Jedi bring a heavier Star Wars feel to the game. You know, they’re very unique to Star Wars. I think that for some of the professions, the Jedi will rely on medics and whatnot."

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So if we don't want to be Jedi, then we should just fight with one? That's our recourse? The only thing Jedi rely on other professions for right now is for FRS xp, as if non-Jedi were just creatures.

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Message Edited by Soln on 08-03-2004 03:26 PM

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We are committed to receiving feedback from and engaging the community. To that end, we'll be holding a correspondent summit at the end of August.

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Message Edited by Crimus on 08-03-2004 12:41 PM

Message Edited by Crimus on 08-03-2004 12:44 PM

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Shug_Ninx wrote:

Hey everyone -

Combat Balance is the top priority behind JTL, followed by the Galactic Civil War revamp. We know that these are both very important to the community. We also recognize the need to address Smugglers and Squad Leaders.

We are NOT shifting a huge number of people over to working on JTL. JTL's progress is such that we will probably only need to pull 1-2 designers (out of 9) from Live. The one area where JTL will impact us is in testing - most of our Testers will likely be working on JTL in the weeks prior to its launch.

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JustG wrote: (From Smuggler forum)

Folks,

I totally understand how angry you are right now. I can't tell you how difficult it is for us to have to move your revamp back... but I really do feel that it is the right thing to do for all parties concerned, and for the overall state of the game. The large systems we are revamping really need our full attention. We have been absolutely killing our designers, and they need to have a life. This means not crunching them 7 days a week for months at a time.

thx,

- Gary

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Now I am confused????

What large systems are you revamping other than JTL? Especially if there are only 1-2 out of 9.

(We know they aren't Combat Balance, GCW, Smugglers, or Squad Leaders. Please check withJustG so we can know too.)

Why does 1 HAVE to be Green Marine?