Development Cycle Archive

Group TEF 'could' work if you received a 'Permi-TEF' for just being grouped with ANY OVERT. I don't see why this isn't the case already... you're telling me that if I trade with an Overt I get a TEF, but Grouping with one I don't? LOL... this alone would fix so much about Group TEF Griefing as people couldn't 'set-up' first-strike griefs of Overt Battle Engaged Players...

... just a thought...

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AKawolski wrote:

Group TEF is a problem because it gives coverts first-strike capability (to attack or DB without being attacked first). Remove this first-strike capabilityand all your problems are solved. Also, it would be nice to see if members of our own faction are TEF or not so we know NOT to heal or trade with them until it wears off!

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i first witnessed this a few days ago...... we were all attacking a base and both sides took a chance to retreat and regroup......
i had a mind poison and along comes this blue DOT..... one-hit incap DeathBlow and he burstruns away, then feigns himself for twenty minutes

players who wish to participate in pvp should declare like everyone else, Group TEFs are a way for cowardly people to sneak in a few hits before anyone can fire on them

also i hate the trading TEF.... it's annoying and serves no purpose

also, being kicked from public houses is annoying, but i can see it's usefulness so i won't complain about it so much lol

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Tstorm wrote:
I am a covert Rebel and to be honest, I'm not all that excited about PvP. Some that are involved with PvP are bent on just plain making others miserable and it is a definite turn off.

Just the other night, I was doing Rebel destroy missions and had returned to the Moenia cantina with a TEF (usually fairly safe as Moenia is Rebel biased). While I was working to get some more missions, an overt Imperial attacked me. What was interesting was that this person was in full composite armor and fully buffed while I wasn't wearing any armor and had a title of "Explorer" up. I think he assumed I'd be an easy kill (what's the fun in that?) and as I was buffed and am a Master Fencer, I had time to put on my own set of composite armor (surprise, surprise) and could almost picture the shock on his face. I haven't really done PvP so I don't know all the techniques, but the Imperial that attacked me was having to use stims to keep up while I wasn't. After several minutes (and me having more help on the way), I agreed to let the Imperial leave in peace.

The reason for me describing this story is because of the good and bad of PvP and TEFs. Some people go after what they see as an easy target and it is that kind of behavior that makes the recipient bitter about PvP.

I also find annoying the fact that a TEF prevents you from entering structures. Particularly when I am solo hunting and doing Rebel missions, a TEF is pretty annoying as I pass a house that appears to be an interesting shop, but I can't go inside until my TEF wears off.

I think there are several different types of people playing SWG and covert, overt, and neutral aren't granual enough to describe them. The whole TEF system on coverts, rules for buffing/healing, and whether you can enter a building are all in place to prevent exploiting covert status so that you can help in factioned battle, but not be attackable.

The question I have is why can't there be different types of TEFs? I'm just thinking out loud here and obviously I'm far from a PvP expert, but I'm curious why a covert Rebel like myself doing Rebel destroy missions needs the same countermeasures that a covert healing an overt in battle, a covert grouped with an overt engaging in battle with a player of the other faction, etc. I am *not* suggesting get rid of TEFs (people like myself just attacking NPCs should still get a taste of the GCW), but perhaps there are different grades of TEFs (with longer/shorter durations, or maybe even just be a TEF against NPCs for those attacking factioned NPCs?) to deal with the different playstyles.

I hope noone is taking my ideas out of the context I am intending. For my own use, the current system works pretty well and honestly, I don't engage very much in the GCW. What I would like to see, however, is ways of bringing "fringe" players like myself as well as neutrals into the GCW to where they feel comfortable and encourage them to engage further.

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Amen to that

We want to be able to defend when a grouped friend is being killed. We dont want to be attacked by 19+1 coverts at a starport. Catch-22.

So it's hard to remove tef or group tef without getting rid of some positive aspects of gameplay.
Without group tef if there is one team m8 in your group that got attacked you'd have to sit and watch him die. We wanted that changed. It was changed so we could help.

Currently all the base assaults arent fair fights. They tend to rely on a number of buffed and prepared players turning up and getting the destruction underway before an effective defence force is mounted.

The system needs to allow for players to re-enter the fight. Otherwise PvP will be a brief landslide.
gtef lets them do that. In every city in the game there is typically only one faction recruiter. This means as one sides number of overts decrease, if the otherside can buff and redeclare its never a fair fight.


A GTEF'd group has option of NOT initiating combat and walking away. The problem is it also has the option of massed first strike. It's that first strike that is the issue.

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Petronics wrote:

Simple solution, if you group with an overt of the same faction as yourself, you become overt.

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And when you spawn at the nearby clone centre with a single overt alive in your group... you are now overt again. Oops.

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WormSeal wrote:

Why not simply do it like this: If you covert and attack a overt target you become overt. That why you can still help out your friends thenthey are attacked but it will be harder to use it as a tactic.

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That's the general thought, though some of us would like to see people made overt for just grouping with overts.

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Sheylaya wrote:

GTEF I see nothing wrong with this system... Just shows to me that Overts are not being fully aware of the battle surroundings.

1. Whenever i am on a TEF i am subjected to any overt Firing at me first I can not shoot first...

2. Also having a TEF I can not enter any buidling other than NPC buildings. I do believe overts should have this issue as well since they are able to go into any building without a problem .. TEFs have to sit and wait around till that silly little flag goes away.

3. Group TEF Should and always be allowed .. however there should be restrictions... NON TEF players should not be able to DB at all. In fact the only person that should be given the right to DB is the player that incapped said player in combat its chaos if that person doesn't get to that player... and fails to DB then its just an incap resume fighting

I have fought both overt and covert i see no real advantages either way while fighting it is who has the fastest trigger finger ... there are a lot of checks and balance issues in fighting first and formost... since all pvp players right now all HAVE the same or similar fighting template how fun is that... when combat balance comes in then lets address the TEF issue as i see it only 4 combat classes in use because of flaws in this system. If a GTEF or TEF player is suprising these uber templates or those that don't PVP often complaining about GTEF from lack of experience.. Then so be it.. Remember This is a game and I would love to see the changes but until we start seeing more combat balance there is no real remedy a TEF fix will only give overt PVP players with the broken combat system an advantage and that is not fun for all those that want to be other professions and have fun in this game as well..

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Ooooh I like this idea and these points.

The GTEF is important, if an overt sees and overt and decides to attack , checking to see if he is in a group just makes sense.

Being able to help a guildmate orfellow faction memberis important, now some other complaints about GTEF are ; that the group keeps getting bigger during the fight.

Perhaps this could happen:

1) Once a member of the group is engaged in battle , group invites dont work until all in the group are clear of conflict.

2)Perhaps attacking an overt member of a faction gives a faction tef or group tef.

"dozens of covert rebels watch helplessly as Princess Leia gets attacked by a pair of STs........"

"dozens of guildies that are covert watch helplessly as their guild brother gets attacked by a lone ST....."

*****Now in saying those above two ideas, THIS becomes the qualifier, if you choose to take the option of attacking while covert, a target with a GTEF, *you* go overt! Simple as that, you have blown your cover! You should be prone to overt status and have to go declare covert from recruiter ( ie. get a new ID or however it works..)

That last point is my biggest one, to close, if you GTEF you go OVERT, I could live with that rule.

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Halfblood wrote:

The problem with the TEF are I see it, is that it provide a huge benefit to the person attacked and his group members. An Overt player that attacks another overt player is expecting a fair fight, when all of the suddern 10 group members jump in a kill the solo guy expecting a solo fight.

Honestly I think you guys should remove the TEF, it will make everything balanced. If you want to PvP then you have to declare just like everyone else. Atleast the group tef problem. As far as the PvE tef thats fine as it is. Killing enemy faction npc should yield a tef to overts of that faction.

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I have to disagree here. First off you can tell if someone is grouped or not. So if you attack someone that shows grouped well....... Second why wouldn't my comrads that are grouped with me, and thus assumed my close comrads, come to my aid if someone attacks me. Since i'm a crafter I do depend on the combat types to protect me.v Also since i'm a crafter i don't tend to go overt. Now if i have a tef because of pve and a covert imp attacks me, because i've been messing with his faction if nothing else, then i should have some of my factions combat people do what they would have done if this is real life. And that would be to defend me. Of course they should all show up red on the attackers radar once they gain the ability to attack him.

I do not wish the tef to go away. This was one of the things that bothers me with eq, that being if your town guards were being attacked, there is no way to help them at all short of doing sometype of funky training. In swg if i see some of my faction's people being attacked I can fight back and help them. This is more realistic. The tef thing also advoids the ultima open season problem, this is a good balance from what i've seen.....