Development Cycle Archive
Thread: Declaring overt
Raph,
Thanks for this thread; it's an important discussion.
I feel that a /declareOvert is of use within 50m, but rather somewhat limited. Where it helps is declaring and not getting ganked before you can drop the recruiter conversation AI. But will this really end recruiter camping? I don't think it will, and with the end of RTEF pending, its incidence will increase.
There's several very intersting ideas in this thread. I'm not in favor of overt anywhere anytime for the reasons you specify. However, Oracle_Centuria and Iram both accurately post that you can basically have that now, which is really somewhat lame.
The notion of allowing superior officers I think is interesting, but I'm not for it. What you'll have is one or two superior officers trying to stay safe/overt(receclaring others at no cost) and we're right back to clone wars. Unless you can simultaneously (or within a proscribed timer window) kill the senior officers the battle's won't end.
A better solution I think would be giving factional officers the ability to purchase mobile NPC recruiters. The NPC recruiter has decent defense but little to any offense. Moderate but not tank HAM. This mobile recruiter operates similar to the static recruiters now, but can only declare people outside of city limits (to discourage clone wars). Further, declaring via a mobile recruiter can cost a modest PF (50-100) per overt declare. My preference woudl be that not have the ability to return to covert status.
In this scenario, for a city war to continue ore or more PCs will have to remain overt outside of city limits redeclaring (providing a time and FP cost to death above the insurance money sink). I think this is reasonable. Clone wars might erupt but the string of clones leading to the mobile recruiter should be a giveaway to the other force, who can wipe that NPC and his handler out.
The main difference here is that it's done via permadeath NPCs and helps discourage layered overt PC recruiters that could effectively still create a neverending fight. Could it be done with this? Sure, with several layers of NPC recruiters. But you've made it a pretty expensive fight FP wise....and much of the suicide bombing right now is coming because its FP farming (certain classes can always win more than they lose).
Secondly, I think the idea of static recruiters calling reinforcements (limited time spawn) is an excellent one. Ultimately I think overpowering NPC faction forces is what will most effectively drive faction battles out of the city.
Thanks again for the thread,
Jacore, MD/MCM, Tempest
But please don't listen to these people who want to go overt any time. This would be awful. Whenever a covert sees someone with a TEF they would consider going overt and killing this person. They would only go overt though if it was obvious they would win. There would be no safe place for new players to run missions, because PKers would roam around covert looking for easy kills.
Once they are overt they would just kill themselves clone and go back out for more. If you want to attack people, you should have to run the risk of fighting people tougher than you.
For those people who want to remove covert altogether. Why? You can go overt 24/7 if you want. Let me be covert.
Of course, what would be excellent is for some places that are heavily factioned to have overt detectors all over the place. Or better yet, something that detects illegal substances--possibly including faction perks from the other side.
Smugglers should be better both at avoiding covert detectors and avoiding detection of banned substances.
SinjenRandall wrote:I like the idea of the /declare command, and I can't think of any problems with it. That would solve several problems with recruiter camping.
I LOVE the idea that a higher ranking player can be used to declare, though. What would be the problem with having an overt and high-ranking player act as a faction recruiter? It would give another reason to achieve rank, too.
how about as well as rank, you also have to buy the ability to do this with Faction points?
My beef is ... why can't I stay overt when I die? (is this to prevent clone camping?) man I would stay overt alot more often if I didnt have to redeclare my self all the time. After I die a couple of times I cant be bothered to shuttle back to a recruiter its annoying and makes pvp boring (more time spent traveling to recruiters).
I want to be overt and participate in PvE and PvP at the same time. I think its fun to be jumped by rebels while im out hunting but haveing to redeclare sux! and isthe reasonwhy im overt most of the time.
Draconos
Umm do doctors only exist on Chilastra? I know when I raid theed when I occasionally go down I don't clone. I get revived and keep my overt status. Make it so that people are taken out of the fight unless they are revived in some way. Sure RTEF helps...but all the time people continue to be able to clone, redeclare the defenders will always win. How about you can declare anywhere - except within a certain distance of an overt opponent? Stops "/declare;/kill" at least. Of course that way wars would still be endless unless you couldn't declare again within a set time of dying? Don't know just throwing ideas out not a solution. Personally I like the idea of being able to go away from the enemy, declare and then move in with my squad. At least people could see me coming. More NPCs in factional cities would be cool. I don't like coverts being able to go anywhere with no risk at all - how about as a seperate but related idea having lots of NPC spawns in cities - which you can attack and gain a TEF to join in the combat? But which also can attack you if you get too close to them (like they do anyway...sometimes at least they do for me). Would make coverts have to panic and hide when the squad of stormtroopers come marching through the streets...
Tie the ability to remain hidden to your rank? Lower ranks can hide where higher ones are more likely to be spotted and attacked. That would need a perk to make it worth having a high rank though...
Maybe there was something useful in there, maybe not...
Jalek, Carbineer/CH, Rebel.
How about combining it with a timer. The characters declares overt then gains a different color name.. or maybe a blinking icon. The player then has a minute to get out of the way. Having an indicator that the player is about to become overt can prevent this being abused.
Regards,
Artuk
My feelings on the issue of being able to go Overt should really depend on which side of the fight you are on. If you are imperial, you shoulsd ALWAYS be overt, unless you declare otherwise; if you're rebel, you should ALWAYS be covert unless you declare otherwise. This would stick to the Starwars-iness of the galaxy because the rebels are supposed to be fighting a gurrilla war against the overwhelming and repressive odds of the Empire. Because the number scale is tipped so much in favor of the Empire, NO rebel would want to be KNOWN as a rebel or he would be killed immediately. At the same time, an Imperial would want all of his/hers peers to KNOW that they are an Imperial Officer.
So the rebels would be able to declare instantly, while the Imps would have to find a recruiter to go covert. It would mean that if the Rebels got organized then, yes, they would have the upper hand in a fight...but they probably wouldn't try to take the fight to a city filled with Imperials. And if the Imperials got organized, they would try to travel more in packs/fleets to protect each other more.
It would make the game feel more like what the Starwars Galaxy was really like.
its a good idea but why not make it so that once u hit a certian rank u can make anyone overt if u are covert.
think about it.
Why not have a faction member, with enough rank, act as a recruiter, with perhaps an /offerPromotion command which would have to be accepted. Prevents covert ambushes to a great extent, where as if the recruiter is killed (not usable while incapped) no one else can be declared. So you'd have the strategy added involving when to have the group declare, too early and the group is prone to attack but too late and run the risk of having the recruiter nixed. Maybe even have it as a faction bonus for the desperately wanting Squad Leaders.
Just an idea. Sorry if I'm stepping on someone elses idea.
Larathorn wrote:
After watching a battle in Tyrena where 5 Imps walked in and a horde of Rebel's ran out the back to declare and come back in and overrun the Imps, I think that something needs to be done. The big issue wasn't that the Rebels could declare, it was that the 5 Covert Imperials that were in the cantina couldn't do anything to help their Overt buddies.
My opinion, make it so you can declare Overt anywhere, anytime. To become Covert you have to go back to the recruiter and wait an hour. There is no reason that I should have to be within 50m to put on my uniform or flash my military ID and fight for my ideals.
He's got a good point... or at least, something near this. It is annoying to see my friends being beat up on, but I can't do diddly-squat about it unless I group with them (And by the time they hit 'accept' or type '/join', they're incapacitated, and it's too late to do anything) or heal them (In which case a commando comes up to me and blasts me away before I can even shoot at anyone)
Larathorn wrote:
My opinion, make it so you can declare Overt anywhere, anytime. To become Covert you have to go back to the recruiter and wait an hour. There is no reason that I should have to be within 50m to put on my uniform or flash my military ID and fight for my ideals.
That would let you move in armies of safe people to the location of a fight, and have them all go overt at once and ambush...
-Raph Koster,
Creative Director
Isn't that the point of covert??
I mean if your a rebel, how else do you intend to get things done???