Development Cycle Archive
Thread: Great Expectations, Major Schedule Changes and making SWG the finest MMORPG ever
robertread wrote:
Can next fridays feature be about astromech numbers again... i want to know how many players quit over this week
All i can say is i dont think it is right to go ahead with JTL while thing stand as they are. Fix combat and weaons, sort out some of the worse bugs in professions, then by all means get everyone working on JTL. Oh and a vet reward of a ship we will al replace sucks.
I would like to see how many people have quit per month over the last 6 months and also how many have joined over that same 6 months............ But then again How would I know if these numbers are correct.
Foth wrote:
I disagree and think this is good,
First, I have been very critical of Thunderheart, Ive always said his name sounds like a carebear to me,in the past and now that he seems to have some real authority we will see if hes any good. Now, I have restructured and and launched many many professional projects, departments etc. Though, never a game department or the likes, but the concepts remain the same. First and foremost in any restructure to get better theres gonna be some sacrifices, or if you like, its gonna get worse before it gets better.
Second, I have not seen any patch come thru without causing problems and some trauma to the community. Ive been here since the second month of SWG and ive been a BH since the day my newb butt fell on Rori. The only thing that keeps me going is the fact its Star Wars and hey, its got to get better right? Ive been chewing on those words for a long time and often the taste is bitter. Though it is getting better.
Third, So what if we have to waite for the combat rebalance and GCW fixes. If its done right is the only thing that is important to me and imho the vast majority of the swg community. Like I said, the restructure he talks about is conceptually sound so for the first time, I have an ounce of faith in the outcome at the end.
Fourth, Time will tell and anybody that has been in the game for some time has to admit that this game has essentially remained in an advanced Beta form. The fact that their needs to be these changes is an operationaladmission and at best it shows an acknowledgment that the direction and management has been flawed.
Summary:
With all these things said, I believe the game has a firm potential of becoming what many of us hoped it would. I base this onthat direction of the restucture is conceptually sound and has a proven record of success in other industries. For myself the waite is welcome with the understanding that it will be a quality rebalance.
My only concern is that it appears the timing is not in line with Marketing. Though in the end it may prove to be of little importance. Not having the balances in at the time of the JTL launch may turn off some potential players. However, most people coming to the game in this time period are coming for the main reason of the JTL. So by the time many of these people level their characters it could be a non-issue.
So it is with these reason I believe the end results have a high likely hood of achieving a quality success.
On a side note: What I would really like to see is some new servers added when JTL is launched. I think this may give the game a new perspective, a correct perspective.
Message Edited by Foth on 07-16-2004 11:52 PM
if anything they need to merge some servers...especially now with alot of people cancelling acounts, you may be seeing big parts of servers just fall
Summary:
With all these things said, I believe the game has a firm potential of becoming what many of us hoped it would. I base this onthat direction of the restucture is conceptually sound and has a proven record of success in other industries. For myself the waite is welcome with the understanding that it will be a quality rebalance.
My only concern is that it appears the timing is not in line with Marketing. Though in the end it may prove to be of little importance. Not having the balances in at the time of the JTL launch may turn off some potential players. However, most people coming to the game in this time period are coming for the main reason of the JTL. So by the time many of these people level their characters it could be a non-issue.
So it is with these reason I believe the end results have a high likely hood of achieving a quality success.
On a side note: What I would really like to see is some new servers added when JTL is launched. I think this may give the game a new perspective, a correct perspective.
Message Edited by Foth on 07-16-2004 11:52 PM
I'm not sure you're still checking this but I wanted to ask you a few questions. First off, very good post. I still agree with you that this game has HUGE potential. It's mostly unrealized at this point. It seems to me that the Devs priority isto make the game look like Star Wars (ie droid revamp, Space, and of course JEDI) rather than making the game fun to play. Where does your optimism for the revamp come from? Have the Dev's shown you in the past that they are capable of making a well thought out, fun, bug free patch so far? With the reposting of TH's own statements, can we really trust that they are putting the effort and thought into the combat revamp like they say they are? Not a flame, just questioning some of the things you had to say, because they are questions I've asked and can't seem to answer on my own.
After reviewing the two "Great Expectations" threads, I'm glad I did. The Devs just don't seem to get it, and as near as I can tell, upper management isn't paying attention. We're looking at some 2,000 account cancellations since the initial thread went live. Pretty telling, though with the peril-sensitive sunglasses TH and pals are wearing, it's hard to tell whether it's going to have any effect.
Sad, really. The game had a lot of promise. Right now I'm playing FFXI -- started the day I cancelled SWG. I'm having a blast. So far, after a week of solid play, I haven't encountered a single bug. Better yet, there's actually a storyline involved. SWG is far too freeform to remain interesting for long, I fear.
Metherian wrote:
AntiM767 wrote:
Answer:
People will cancel their accounts. Potentially a good number of people will cancel their accounts. This possibility, while altogether undesirable, is not overly concerning in the grander scheme of things. The influx of new players into the game seems to be healthy enough based on Mos Eisley crowds. The most unhappy players are likely to be the older end-game level players they have more vested in the game and are less likely to quit as a result. The ones that do will likely return in substantial numbers once JTL is released along with many new subscribers which should more than compensate for those that left never to return (plus they'll ALL be paying for it ;p).
Second,all this talk about new players flooding the game when the older players leave is pure, unfounded conjecture based on nothing but subjective whimsy.
No, it's based on the crowds in Eisley on multiple servers. Yes I knowmost of those are trial account people.
Given the fact that SWG launched with one of the largest playerbases indicates that a large majority of die-hard SWG players have already been 'in game', have already become accustomed to the bug-ridden ruin that it is, and have finally just given up and moved on... to better, well-written games that are actually fun to play. What new players should the SWG dev's expect to find, when they've already tapped the Star Wars fanbase for the past year? How many new fans of Star Wars canthey possibly lure with empty promises?People fail to recognize the fact that the MMORPGmarket "audience" is finite. In spite of common belief, there is not an infinite playerbase of MMORPG'ers, especially those who are willing to pay a fee, month after month, for what is essentially a broken game.
Guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this. The game has problems but there's still fun to be had. I have missed logging in a grand total of about 6 days since the game launched. I've never played an MMORPG in my life - but I play this one because it is Star Wars. You honestly think this game has already brought in all the star wars gamers there are? The JTL being twitch based is gonna bring all the Quake guys who love Star Wars but detest turn-based combat (I would fall in this category actually). I'd be willing to bet green dollars that there are more FPS fans than there are MMORPG fans to begin with. If it aint more it's at LEAST as many. The release of the dvd set this fall will also drive people to SWG. You can probably bet the farm that there'll be an expansion out right around the time of the next film too. In other words, there's no shortage of fans. Is it infinite? No, but I suspectthe surface has barely been scratched.
Third, these claims are declared with no regard for any of the newer games that are on/or will be entering the market by the end of this year. Regardless of whether a person isa die-hard fan or not, if a game is 'pointless', 'worthless', and thoroughly 'unfun', a gamer is not going to play it, and all the optimism in the world is not going to bring a person back to a bug-ridden game and a development team that has consistently screwed up and shown little to no regard for their current playerbase. Also, older gamers, in my opinion, are more likely to leave a game such as this, and not return; remember, these are people who have real life responsibilites (like jobs, families, etc.), and hardly have the time/inclination to put up with the ongoing, needless frustration provided by playing this game; it's just not worth it.More often than not, these people will choose to finda better game to play, one that is supported by a dev team who knows what they're doing.
I'm 32, I have a wife, 2 kids and a job. I play every night and have since the game hit the shelf. I'm not alone either. Your argumnet here relies on the premise that this game is pointless, worthless and thoroughly unfun. While that may be your opinion, it isn't necessarily a fact for everybody else. I am a bit bored with the game, it needs more content. But I can generally find something to get into. The older gamers do come back. If 20% of the playerbase quit tomorrow, over half of them would be back as soon as JTL hit.
The SWG dev's knew they had to 'make good' with the combat rebalance. They've known since the first month of release that the most fundamental game mechanics (combat, buffs, armor, etc.) were seriously flawed and open to gradual abuse. And yet, in spite of all their talk and 'flowery' prose about how much 'better things will be', they have essentially pulled a "bait and switch" routine with this announcement.
The dire need for a rebalance isn't even common knowledgeto a huge portion of the playerbase. Keep in mind, these forums are a teeny tiny slice of the playerbase. I have guys in my guild that may play 4 hours a week. They don't know - nor do they care -that melee is the best for hunting jedi or that combat medics can throw things too far. The game as it is right now in t's present form provides plenty to keep the casual/moderate player engaged.
This, in addition to everything else, is also a bone of contention, I think.. this whole "bait and switch" nonsense.Had the dev's been honest from the beginning, and simply told everyone that, 'Hey, sorry--we screwed up thegame (with hologrinding, buffs, armor, broken professions, etc.), but maybe next year we'll get around to fixing it"--well, had they said that, many people would have just outrightquit right there and then, including me. But they didn't do that. They weren't truthful. Instead, they dreamed up some elaborate 'miracle' fix and pawned it off onto the public with a nice set of empty promises they had no intention of honoring. So, instead of quitting this game months ago, we have hordes of players who find themselvse in the bewildering position of having the rug pulled out from under them: they stayed onwith this game, for one thing only (combat rebalance), and now they're told, "Gee, we're sorry, that won't happen until next year--becuase, you know, Jedi players and the JTL are more important than you. Have a nice day."
I don't see it as lying. You wanna go to the real world with real credits? Wait'llAMD announces that they aren't going to meet estimates for this quarter. Are they guilty of lying? Happens every day. I work for an Internet company myself. We have lots of programs and programmers. If a project is due at the end of next week but isn't finished at the end of next week because 3 other projects pre-empted it, I don't accuse them of lying. It's the nature of the beast. You set goals and you work towards them. If it has to be postponed then so be it.
In the business world, this is known as a 'show-stopper', and it usually signals the end of a viable customer-business relationship.
Personally, I think having a Star Wars game where the only way to get from planet to planet is to wait for a shuttle to take me to a load screen if far more damaging to the long term health of this game. Gotta have space ships. Period.They can, and will, I expect take care of some of the glaring problems with combat between now and the rebalance. In the meantime, you can play, take a break, quit, whatever you want to do of course. It's your $15 and noone is making you spend it on anything. Just don't be too surprised if the game doesn't disintegrate into nothing and fail because they delayed a combat rebalance for a few months.
Message Edited by Metherian on 07-16-2004 11:07 PM
Colonel Tambo Snea'kya
Please join me in congratulating Thunderheart on his promotion to Community Relations Manager. Thunderhearthas done an outstanding job working with the community and bringing their top issues to the attention of the developers. In his new role, he’ll have more power to push those agendas through (previously he attended Design meetings, now he will also attend Lead meetings). He has always been a firm champion of the community and the promotion is well deserved. w00t!
BAHAHAHHAHAHA
He gets promoted and this is what he does. What a **edit**ing retard.
Message Edited by ChFry on 07-17-2004 02:16 AM