Development Cycle Archive
Thread: Great Expectations, Major Schedule Changes and making SWG the finest MMORPG ever
Dodece
Sat Jul 17, 2004 7:02 am
#1717
Hey SOE you know why its been going down hill for months. If you put whipped cream on **edit** its still **edit**. Why pay to play a game that you cannot play. Pretty dosent and will never be the driveing point of selling games. You should know this by now. Its called game mechanics. You can toss on all the pretty you want, but until you fix the games engine. You can watch as more people leave. You know what is worse you hurt your reputation. Reputation is money in the bank. You squandor it for a little immediate dough, and you have to spend twenty times that to get it back.
All your doing is turning people away from your company. You are turning them from your company to the competition, and if the competition delivers. Your **edit**ed it will not take long for word to spread. Sony games blow blizzard games rock. So much promise fritted away.
Drizzt1980
Sat Jul 17, 2004 7:03 am
#1718
About Shade stuff, yeah we don't have the same way to play it, if you enjoy it like that fine. But lot of players expet much more for 15 dollars per month. Loads of MMORPG have been crushed for doing half of the mistakes SOE have done. And the development work is far the more awfull I have sawn since I'm playing MMORPG.
if you are fairly convinced that everything is fine, enjoy it, but don't ask people to do what you don't look to have done yourself : grow up. We are just in opposite position yours is not in any way better than ours, you should have read a bit more carefully the 65 pages they deleted yesterday instead of whining about angry people.
if you are fairly convinced that everything is fine, enjoy it, but don't ask people to do what you don't look to have done yourself : grow up. We are just in opposite position yours is not in any way better than ours, you should have read a bit more carefully the 65 pages they deleted yesterday instead of whining about angry people.
Spekter
Sat Jul 17, 2004 7:07 am
#1719
Thank you for what has been a pretty good time. Unfortunately, I can no longerjustify paying to be abeta tester. Maybe I'll return next July to see if the game's potential has been fulfilled. I desperately hope it will be, because the game could be something trulyamazing.
Perhaps this just proves, even further, that the game should have stayed in the originaldevelopment for another year. If the core gamehad been more nailed down in the first place, much of the duct tape and chicken wire would never have been necessary and things wouldn't be so hairy right now.Of course,it's easy for us to say that, isn't it. We aren't in the hotseat, having to put up with the suits breathing down our necks. 
Goodbye for now, 
Dodece
Sat Jul 17, 2004 7:09 am
#1720
If anyone says we are a vocal minority they are ignorant. Many of the people I have played with have quit over the past two days, and accounts dry up at the end of the month. Will not be resubscribeing. A major part of the population is leaveing over this. Upwards of a quarter of the players might leave over the next two weeks. Unreplaceable. Result is a cascade the game will be near or dead by jtl.
Strohm
Sat Jul 17, 2004 7:11 am
#1721
Metherian, very good post. I'm glad to see some reasoned responses from people who understand the business and technical world. I am so frustrated right now with the bait and switch tactics. And indeed, the verification testing/Quality assurance is severely lacking. I too work in the technical world and we have to rationalize finite resources. SOE should have prioritized fixing the current game before releasing JTL. I can't imagine that coming off flawlessly either. As for show stopper, I think the questionwas "will they keep paying for it?", and it was released.
And for those who mention Blizzard, you are right on. I'm in the WoW beta, and that game seems about as polished as this on is now. It is a bit simpler system though, so we might not be comparing apples to apples. For instance, the economy is not a key part of WoW, but rather a secondary consideration as you don't have any dedicated crafters, nor do you have to depend on player crafters (NPCs sell things). Blizzard is at the other end of the spectrum, they release few features of higher quality; where SOE has chosen to try and release more features with lower quality.
Folks, if you are frustrated with the way things are now, please see my thread "save our game" in the GCW forums. I've listed all the top executives in the Sony chain. We need to write and make our opinions known. I've now seen a post where the President of SOE acknowledged the need to fix EQ at one point, so we need to do the same thing here. We have to have a change in the management of this product, that is the only way we are going to get the game we want, deserve, and have paid for.
Strohm
Sat Jul 17, 2004 7:16 am
#1722
Madshade, the problem here is that they don't execute to the plan that they share. In fact, they have failed at almost every plan they have introduced to us. People pointing out the negative aspects of this game and it's management is not "whining". Some of us want the game to get better and are trying to have a reasoned approach to it. This game was marketed as an immersive experience in the Star Wars Galaxy, set in a certain time frame of that story. When does that game come?
MadShade wrote:
I'm sorry but the SWG forum boards attracts some of the most ignorant and self absorbed people that I've ever seen posting on an MMO forum. Alot of decisions that SOE has made that I don't agree with has come from listening to the whining and complaining of the selfish and know-it-all posters to these forums. Yeah, yeah squeaky wheel gets the grease and all that, but you guys over-do it. On the first page alone of this 2nd thread about the same thing you have the same posters that spammed the first thread about "what a horrible decision soe has made" and how they're leaving. If you're leaving, leave already.
I don't know what the huge uproar is about all of a sudden, I could have sworn it's been known that the combat balance was going to be after JTL. I at least have known it for weeks, so I don't know how people couldn't have found out if they tried.
This is a corporation folks, they set a plan and they work from it. The "1000 players" that have canceled on "the last thread alone" are not the only people that play this game. As a matter of fact I would be willing to bet that a majority of players don't even read the forum boards and could care less about all you drama queens.
The game works, there are no catastrophic failures and gameplay is fairly smooth. Now because the game doesn't work the way YOU want it to work you throw a hissy fit. Grow the hell up.
I'm no fanboy, as a matter of fact I jump from MMO to MMO and have just recently come back. The way SWG dev cycle is running isn't making everyone happy, but they are working on things and adding new content. The things they fix and the content they add is of good quality and comes on a timely basis. They are not "ripping you off" by choosing to do certain things in an order they choose.
I love pvp, I think most of the forum whiners have ruined pvp from the start ever before this game hit Beta. They have changed pvp ever since release and they will continue to change pvp to suit your whiney needs. Not only that, they are planing on doing a major overhaul on the whole combat system since most of you feel its broken. (which it's not, pvp works fine its just a little unbalanced atm).
Yes, they have chosen to push the combat balance back and release JTL first to distract you and give you somthing to do while they adjust pvp in this game. If you don't like it just cancel your account( permanently or take a break for a couple of months) and shut the hell up.
This game should not be your life..... its a game. Play it however you have to play it. If it doesn't make you happy.... stop playing it.
Boge
Sat Jul 17, 2004 7:29 am
#1723
First time i seriously post in this board.
-3 subscribers my friends.
A year ago i'd never thought about an account cancellation could be possible, because this game was "Star Wars", enveloped all my expectations and my dreams about that universe.
Well now i'm really pissed off, after the "hype period" you have to maintain a credible schedule of improvemnts, and i've seen none from the big patch from august of the last year (yes for me that was the only real publish).
Sadly this is true, maybe Jedi improvements are interesting, but this is not KOTOR Galaxies or Buff Galaxies, this is Star Wars and everyone needs to born, live and die by the rules of a credible universe, you didn't have to create a fantasy world, you had to create a reproduction of a possible future *real* universe WITH fantasy elements (as it's SW).
You missed this, as every developer missed it in the past year: you don't have to build a system where people needs to be GOD to survive (City of Heroes does this in a perfect way), you need to build a world where players could be "human(alien) heroes" who fights for a better future, or simply people under a rule they barely can control or really comprhend in its evil (as such the migthy Empire grip should be).
You were able to create a great piece of work with crafting and the rares system, but failed to understand that we need a set of rules to fight credible battles and duels with weapons and defenses styles which the effectiveness resembles the ones we have in our present world.
So no uber one shot-one kill weapons or unbelievable armors, but SIMPLY (SIMPLY; SIMPLY; SIMPLYYYYY) a balanced way to fight creatures and other players.
FIRST comes this, with normal equipment, THEN we can speak about legendary weapons and armors, physical and mental enhancements, body protection and whatever you like to implement in a sane way.
Hell this game was more balanced at start than now!
At least a PvP without buffs or armors required to select the right moves and fighting styles to avoid even auto-incapacitation, and those moves where REALLY EFFECTIVE.
Now: 25 damage with uber weapons against a full armored and shielded and buffed guy? **edit**??? You must be kidding... a direct volley (yes volley... no creativity, every special has to be "theoneshotthathasamultiplierbadassdamage" for you?) of blaster fire should fairly damage everyone!
Bah! I repeat: -3 subscribers.
-3 subscribers my friends.
A year ago i'd never thought about an account cancellation could be possible, because this game was "Star Wars", enveloped all my expectations and my dreams about that universe.
Well now i'm really pissed off, after the "hype period" you have to maintain a credible schedule of improvemnts, and i've seen none from the big patch from august of the last year (yes for me that was the only real publish).
Sadly this is true, maybe Jedi improvements are interesting, but this is not KOTOR Galaxies or Buff Galaxies, this is Star Wars and everyone needs to born, live and die by the rules of a credible universe, you didn't have to create a fantasy world, you had to create a reproduction of a possible future *real* universe WITH fantasy elements (as it's SW).
You missed this, as every developer missed it in the past year: you don't have to build a system where people needs to be GOD to survive (City of Heroes does this in a perfect way), you need to build a world where players could be "human(alien) heroes" who fights for a better future, or simply people under a rule they barely can control or really comprhend in its evil (as such the migthy Empire grip should be).
You were able to create a great piece of work with crafting and the rares system, but failed to understand that we need a set of rules to fight credible battles and duels with weapons and defenses styles which the effectiveness resembles the ones we have in our present world.
So no uber one shot-one kill weapons or unbelievable armors, but SIMPLY (SIMPLY; SIMPLY; SIMPLYYYYY) a balanced way to fight creatures and other players.
FIRST comes this, with normal equipment, THEN we can speak about legendary weapons and armors, physical and mental enhancements, body protection and whatever you like to implement in a sane way.
Hell this game was more balanced at start than now!
At least a PvP without buffs or armors required to select the right moves and fighting styles to avoid even auto-incapacitation, and those moves where REALLY EFFECTIVE.
Now: 25 damage with uber weapons against a full armored and shielded and buffed guy? **edit**??? You must be kidding... a direct volley (yes volley... no creativity, every special has to be "theoneshotthathasamultiplierbadassdamage" for you?) of blaster fire should fairly damage everyone!
Bah! I repeat: -3 subscribers.
Gunrunner6661
Sat Jul 17, 2004 7:35 am
#1724
/agree with most of the stuff said in previous posts, SOE is losing alot of subscritions over this
MadShade
Sat Jul 17, 2004 7:39 am
#1725
My problem with the forum whiners and complainers are not that they whine and complain, my problem is that they spam threads like this and work themselves up. Speak your mind and then let someone else say thier piece. The reason he archived the last thread is because so many of the same posters spammed that last thread and made it unmanagable.
Everyone bashes TH and the Devs for lies and misinformation when you don't even realize that they don't have to have this much community interaction. They can't hire tons of people with your 15 bucks a month and even if they did, you can only have so many people working on the same project. Most of the people here are arguing from a position of ignorance. You have no idea what its like to do thier job and you don't know what goes into it. Some others havea sort of a clue and have some well thought out complaints.
I don't love the developers of SWG, I left the game before, I'll probably leave it again. This game has certain features that are awesome and others that kind of suck. The game when it was released was not meant to be focused on PVP ( I would have liked it to ). So combat balance and PVP will be down on the list of what they're going to fix. The people that are working on JTL will continue to work on JTL.... do you think that they're going to just stop development on JTL just because you feel they should publish the combat balance first? What the hell type of job do you work at.... because in the real world it takes time and money to swap employee's around.
I've grown up and as I've grown I've become a realist. I like to play MMO's as a diversion, its entertainment but it isn't my main focus in life. If I stop enjoying myself when playing a game, I stop playing it and play another. If you have decided to cancel then do it. Will I be happy about it... no I'll be indifferant. I don't care what you do, its your choice to make.... and yes it will send a message to the developers. Will it ruin the game? No, have you looked at the subscription numbers for Shadowbane? It's still up and running.
WoW will not be the pvpers holy grail. Will the game be fun? Probably. Will people whine and complain about WoW? Most definately... then they'll threaten Blizzard with quitting for the next big thing.
Speak your mind, let your voice be heard.... but don't spam the forums because people just won't listen.
Aakhperkare
Sat Jul 17, 2004 7:43 am
#1726
So what has changed since the first version of this thread was made?
You still lied to us. You are still doing a lot of talking. You are still making bad decissions. And you are still worthless.
...oh, and a lot of your customers have quit...
Boge
Sat Jul 17, 2004 7:50 am
#1727
@madshade :
of course you're right, but certain people (me too) tends to see things they like in a more "romantic" way.
Yes that's reationally wrong to be applied in a game, but every other passion and hobby is wrong then, because "drains" time from our real life interests.
Well i like to globalize things and see even the smallest part of my existance as necessary, so i'm sad with what's happening to SWG.
I realize too we don't know how's these great business are managed and how to assign priority, but, sincerely, i see young developer teams with no mmorpg experience working better than veterans one (that's called the game EVE, far from being perfect, but a first creation to be proud of).
Then... talking again about "how thing works", i've studied a bit of "the culture of results in business companies", and i'm doubtful about results, the overall motivation, and the customer "touch" the actual SWG dev team has.
of course you're right, but certain people (me too) tends to see things they like in a more "romantic" way.
Yes that's reationally wrong to be applied in a game, but every other passion and hobby is wrong then, because "drains" time from our real life interests.
Well i like to globalize things and see even the smallest part of my existance as necessary, so i'm sad with what's happening to SWG.
I realize too we don't know how's these great business are managed and how to assign priority, but, sincerely, i see young developer teams with no mmorpg experience working better than veterans one (that's called the game EVE, far from being perfect, but a first creation to be proud of).
Then... talking again about "how thing works", i've studied a bit of "the culture of results in business companies", and i'm doubtful about results, the overall motivation, and the customer "touch" the actual SWG dev team has.
FettKenobi
Sat Jul 17, 2004 7:52 am
#1728
TH,
I have talked up the patience angle on this rather incredulous move by SOE by encouraging people to stick around, live with the busted poo that passes for a balanced combat system in this game until, gosh darn, you guys feel good and ready to get your priorities straight. To stick around while you back-flip, change your stories and push back, back, back the ONE thing that makes this game what it is (GCW and PvP combat balance).
Promises made, promises broken. Here's a thought: it would be better not to promise anything and do something rather post endless love letters about yourhopes and dreams. But no, the trainwreck keeps going. To top it off, you indulge the fanboi aspect of this game that was supposed to be RARE - and gave in to the Jedi poodoo. Yep, instead of waiting a bit and pushing the jedi revamp back to get the crucial aspect of this game resolved, you all just plain steamrolled that and turned your backs on the players that have supported this game through all of it's nonsense.
And in spite of it all, you then just decide to can the Combat Balance again and bring in TIE Fighter vs X-Wing for SWG. Something I imagine that will be riddled with game breaking bugs. And rinse and repeat.
I don't pay $15 a month for this game, TH. I live in Australia, where our dollar lags behind the mighty greenback. I pay OVER $22 a month (depending on market fluctuations) to play this game. And for that $22 US, I expect you to fix the Combat Balance. In fact, I'dbet that $22 a month that the majority of your customers couldn't give a toss if:
A) The Jedi Trials was pushed back a few months and
B) that JTL didn't appear until the end of the year
If it meant the GCW was cookin' with balanced professions and exploits eradicated etc etc. I couldn't give a fig if I NEVER saw an effing TIE Fighter or X-Wing EVER if it meant I had a fully functioning PvP system in-game. So don't sit hear reading this rant anymore - get of your asses and do something that is less time-consuming but more beneficial to you fan base and the size of your hip pocket:
Combat Balance is needed NOW damnit. Not in 6 months. You know what happened to the boy that cried wolf, right?
Hobbs_Nguyen
Sat Jul 17, 2004 7:52 am
#1729
Boge wrote:
First time i seriously post in this board.
-3 subscribers my friends.
A year ago i'd never thought about an account cancellation could be possible, because this game was "Star Wars", enveloped all my expectations and my dreams about that universe.
Well now i'm really pissed off, after the "hype period" you have to maintain a credible schedule of improvemnts, and i've seen none from the big patch from august of the last year (yes for me that was the only real publish).
Sadly this is true, maybe Jedi improvements are interesting, but this is not KOTOR Galaxies or Buff Galaxies, this is Star Wars and everyone needs to born, live and die by the rules of a credible universe, you didn't have to create a fantasy world, you had to create a reproduction of a possible future *real* universe WITH fantasy elements (as it's SW).
You missed this, as every developer missed it in the past year: you don't have to build a system where people needs to be GOD to survive (City of Heroes does this in a perfect way), you need to build a world where players could be "human(alien) heroes" who fights for a better future, or simply people under a rule they barely can control or really comprhend in its evil (as such the migthy Empire grip should be).
You were able to create a great piece of work with crafting and the rares system, but failed to understand that we need a set of rules to fight credible battles and duels with weapons and defenses styles which the effectiveness resembles the ones we have in our present world.
So no uber one shot-one kill weapons or unbelievable armors, but SIMPLY (SIMPLY; SIMPLY; SIMPLYYYYY) a balanced way to fight creatures and other players.
FIRST comes this, with normal equipment, THEN we can speak about legendary weapons and armors, physical and mental enhancements, body protection and whatever you like to implement in a sane way.
Hell this game was more balanced at start than now!
At least a PvP without buffs or armors required to select the right moves and fighting styles to avoid even auto-incapacitation, and those moves where REALLY EFFECTIVE.
Now: 25 damage with uber weapons against a full armored and shielded and buffed guy? **edit**??? You must be kidding... a direct volley (yes volley... no creativity, every special has to be "theoneshotthathasamultiplierbadassdamage" for you?) of blaster fire should fairly damage everyone!
Bah! I repeat: -3 subscribers.
I hear a lot of people going on about how they never thought they would quit this game because it was a Star Wars MMORPG. I honestly believe that's what was running through the heads of the SOE executives.
We won't lose that many players, because it's Star Wars and the franchise can carry us through the rough spots.
Now, I will be honest and say that I love Star Wars. The first three movies are classic, and while not as spectacular in terms of story (IMNSHO), the choreography of the Jedi battles and sheer effort put into the computer effects, makes the latest ones worth seeing. But do I buy the Star Wars toys? No, never have. Do I own a lightsaber, be it one of the hollowed out kid-safe ones or one of those custom-hilted, long colored plastic ones? No. Just because it says Star Wars doesn't mean I'm going to throw my money at it. (And yes, like many of you, I will buy the original three on DVD)
So if SOE thought that the franchise would make us all stay (forget make us forgive them), they're sadly mistaken.
And remember that line from Penny Arcade, children: It's only a crime to screw kids if you're a not a multinational corporation.