CUEmu - Thread Posts

Imbreum

Sat Mar 20, 2004 1:09 am

I just recently re-subscribed to Star Wars Galaxies after taking a six month break. I originally decided to take a break because I wanted to play a commando, and at that time the profession was a mess. I am utterly shocked to see that not only is the commando profession still a mess, it is WORSE off now than it was before.

I am disgusted and will not be renewing the next month. I am very disappointed that the developers of SWG care so little for this combat profession. It only takes a cursory glance at the Commando boards to see what the state of the profession is in,SHAME on the combat developers!

Raptor2k1

Sat Mar 20, 2004 2:37 am

#158

Yeah, but right now, the commando looks like a duck, barks like a dog, and acts like a Llama, so I'm not too sure what the heck it should be called aside from confused - which is why we have this thread to flesh out the comminty's ideas on where the proffession should be headed.

Kyeran Halkyon

Master Gunfighter and Demolitionist of the Old Republic Navy
SWG Commando Forum

Raptor2k1

Sat Mar 20, 2004 2:41 am

#159

Before I forget, I'd just like to make a quick comment on upcoming changes to the commando proffession as well, covering issues that need to be addressed regardless of what your vision for the proffession is.

The problem with commando right now is that the profession is put togethersoakwardly,in terms of how you get weapon skills and certifications, that it's almost impossible to add a new gun to the proffession, without it being just a variant of either the FT, the HAR, HSW, or grenades. I really hope this is being addressed in the combat rebalance, or this is going to severely hurt the profession's longetivity.

As each weapon in the proffession is currently directly tied to a secific skill for it, it would be impossible to expand on the proffession as it is in it's current state via adding new weaponry of any sort. As is, it would be impossible to integrate something like a repeater (or any non Heavy Acid Rifle/Flamethrower for that matter) without completely having to revamp one or more skill trees, if not the whole proffession.

Basically, I think the fact that each weapon applies to a skillset specifically for it, and it alone needs to be addressed in the Commando proffession. My personal suggestion would be to combine skills into a single, clear skill. An example would be combining all of the current heavy support weapon skills (there are 4 or 5 different skill sets in this tree alone, rather absurd for a single weapon type) into a single skill titled: Heavy Weapons (which would at the same time address the issue of non-functional skill-tapes and accuracy on non-rocket launcher Heavy Support Weapons.)

Placing the HAR into the Flamethrower tree wouldn't seem to unreasonable either, as the weapons seem to be clones of eachother as is. Things could be greatly simplified if the two skills were combined into a single skill titled something like 'close range weaponry', since they pretty much use the same specials as is. This would free up a fourth tree for more a more general-purpose weaponry skill, fleshing out the proffession to it's full potential.

In addition, the consolidated and more generic skills resulting would be set up in such a way that adding a new weapon of a given skill type wouldn't require creation of a whole new skill line, all for the one weapon.

Anyways, there's my thoughts on something I think is rather pertinent, I hope you guys take a thoughtful look at it.

Kyeran Halkyon

Master Gunfighter and Demolitionist of the Old Republic Navy
SWG Commando Forum

heapum

Wed Mar 24, 2004 7:24 am

#160

Ok, I posted my ideas on how to fix the commando on this thread about a month ago, and I am now here to check out every elses ideas on fixing commando. Ya know see how the ideas are developing. As I was doing this I was listening to the MGS2 (Metal Gear Solid 2) theme song. While passively listening away I was reading a post that proposed the idea of giving accuracy and speed mods to Rifles, Carbines, and Pistols in commando. After reading the post an Idea occured to me. Solid Snake reflects alot of the ideas presented in this thread. He uses pistols, sniper rifles, fully automatic rifles (machine guns A K A the star wars carbine), along with grenades,stinger missle launchers, and some unarmed moves when he was caught without a weapon. Now I know Metal Gear Solid and Star Wars are two completely different things. But the idea of Snake being an elite soldier and the commando being an elite soldier are derived from the same concept. Special forces, navy seals, murines, the guy who is trained in all sorts of different types of combat forms so that he can do the job of the soldier by far more effeciently then the average military GI. The elite soidier.

Now when it comes to the Star Wars commando there isn't much information about a Star Wars commando out there. I have not seen or read about a single commando in Star Wars once. The team that accompanied Han Solo and Leia to Endor in The Return of the Jedi are specualted to be commando's. But thats just specualtion. I consider this the biggest problum of the commando in star wars. It is not defined by the starwars universe prior to this game thus being extremely hard to define in Star Wars galaxies.

As some people put it, the commando is waddling like a duck, barking like a dog, and thinking like Lhama. There refering to the poor skill/weapon design of the commando profession. Is it anti artillary or anti infentry the only artillary in here is turrets and AT STs and AT ATs. So there is not a bright future for the commando in this area. The rifleman serves as a better AT ST killer then the commando at this point. So what does the commando have now? Anti infentry, and there is no shortage of NPCs, Creatures, and Players to shoot at.

So here is my Idea for the commando, based off of alot of other ideas posted here, a little bit of Metal Gear Solid, and the real commandos of our time (Those Navy seals, murines, army rangers, etc)

To start with the commando should be both anti-infentry and anti- artillary/vehicule. The skills to acieve this will be givin in the commando class itself. The heavy weapons, the grenades, flamethrower, etc, these skills and skill mods come purely from the commando profession. Now the anti-Infentry aspect of the commando will build upon the previous skills aquired from marksman and the unarmed tree. Accuracy and speed mods will be given for Rifles, Carbines, and Pistols and they should be very close in comparison to the professions dedicated to their specific weapon type. the rifleman has an accuracy of 160. The master commando should have a rifle accuracy of 130. the carbineer has an accuracy of 130, commando should have 110 at master. Commando pistol accuracy sould be 100 flat. the commando will not get any accuracy bonuses for shooting on the move or standing still or any other mod. These are the mods for the weapon specific professions. The commando will just get accuracy similer to the bounty hunter. a few weapon specific randomHAM damaging specials should be added as well. one for each weapon type as novice and one of each weapon type at master. The specials at master will a higher damage multiplier to reflect the commando's mastery of his weaponery.

Now for the unarmed skills, An unarmed accuracy and speed mod should be given. These mods will be sub par to the Tera Kasi's mods by one third. no damage mod will be applied, making the vibro knuckle a weapon the commando must use to do any damage. The certification should be givin at novice commando as well along with one random HAM damaging special some where in one of the skill trees, and aonther special at master with a higher damage multiplier. No other unarmed skill mods should be givin. the commando only knows the most effective strikes of a martial arts and does not have the training like the TKA to prefect the deadly art. The unarmed, rifle, carbine, and pistol accuracy mods and specials can be lumped togather into one skill tree.

The other heavy weapons and grenades can be givin their own skill tree since they are similar to each other. The heavy weapons accuracy and speed mods should be compiled into one mod. I will address the weapons themsleves later on. the accuracy and speed mods should be very high. A commando trains specifically to hit their target with whatt ever they got and do it in a reasonable amount of time. Being slow to miss your target means death to the commando. A 150 accuracy and 70 speed mods would be perfect, reflecting the training in the other weaponery.

Now for the grenades, these should be the most accurate weapon of the game for the simple fact that they are area effect explosions. this is why the grenade is so dangerous to begin with. An accuracy of 150 would do well here. Also ther has been ideas for adding status effects to grenades. I am not to fond of this idea since the commando was meant to be a pure damage dealer and should be capable of taking out targets without having to rely on status effects. The only two status effectsI would apply to grenades is knockdown since it is an explosion. Maybethe blind status effectblind fi there was a flash bang grenade.

As for the flamethrower, Heavy Acid Rifle and other special heavy weapons these will be put togather in one skill tree since they are so similar to each other. Keep the flamthrower specials as they are but change the acid rifles specials to be long range oriented. I see the Heavy Acid Rifle as the weapon that projects the commandos power at long distances where the flamethrower cannot. the rifle can be faster and a little less accurate then the flamethrower, but the specials should be just as powerfulsince the Heavy Acid Rifle a dot. But that flamthrower should be extremely accurate. its near impossible to dodge a massive jet of flame being blasted in your direction and not get burned in some fashion. Give it a 150 accuracy but keep the speed the same.

Finally the last skill tree will contain oddball weaponery and some passive skill modifiers. I say oddball weaponery because of they way they are used. This is where the skill mods would go for the using the E-Web launcher and the modifiers for planting mines and timed grenades and such. The commando will be able to plant temperary mines and set up the E-Web launcher. the accuracy and speed mods for the launcher would be in this skill tree the commando would be extremely accurate and fast with this weapon since it is imobile. Accuracy mods would be applied to the planted explosives showing the commandos effectiveness in planting them, and giving the target a chance to dodge or be missed by the blast. these can both be used in conjunction to defend the commando from on rushing forces.

This skill tree will also contain the malitagation skill mods and the only defenses the commando will have. These defenses are plus 10 to melee and ranged defense and a plus 50 verses knockdown and posture change nothing else. Also range and melee malitagation two should be added. A commando is tough capable of withstanding punishment to get his job done or those shots off to save his hide. On his back he does not shoot. Currently the commando has to get into melee range to use the flamethrower which is pointless since he is just knocked down, dizzied, and killed. the opponent even has the leisure offour and a half seconds to get the knockdown dizzy combo off. This is one of the biggest reasons commandos usually pair TKA or pistoleer with commando. These mods will reflect the commandos toughness, and capability to stay in the fight.

The last thing that needs to be addressed is the commandos weapons themselves. all blast weaponery (rocket launchers, blast damage grenades, and mines) need to have the knockdown status applied to them to reflect the explosive nature. You are not going to be standing if you survive the blast of a rocket. The heavy weapons should be combined into one launcher with ammunition types. There types will affact the commando's accuracy, speed, HAM costs, and damage. These ammo types will not have a minus 119 at point blank or max range to hit. With all these defensive mods mods its near impossible to hit anything. minus 119 was fine when defensive mods were few and far between. With a single launcher only one accuracy and speed mod is needed. grenades trowing time needs to be cut down. Its not hard to throw a grenade quickly. also the grenades need to act as a one time dot effect to reflect the time it takes for them to go off. Commandos can get out of range before the thing explodes so they are not in capped in the process. the dot effect should be dogable to give the impression that the person is running for cover.

Now for the E-Web and the planted explosives. the grenades are those explosives and the weapon smith can make a explosive plantinc kit of the commando to plant these bombs. the planted will cease functioning after an hour and disappear from the world so as not to lag the server. The kit will have a set amount of cahrges. The E-Web will also be made by the weaponsmith and will only be useable by commandos. It will offer some form of protection in resistences and hit points so the commando is not zerg killed out of it immediatly upon setup. Once the hit points are gone the weapon ceases function and its power generator might explode doing high amounts of damage to the commando or killing him or her. The E-web will be extremely powerful since no specials will be applied to it.

The Commando would be a completely different class even if half of these changes occured and be alot better combat class for it. what I have detailed out above is focused on extremely high accuracy and damage output. Commandos should be the highest Damage dealing combat profession in the game, easily taken out due to lack of defenses but still able to dish out the damage to their last ounce of life. Capable of using all range weaponery effectively to deal with whatever situation they come accross, and some melee weaponery if need be. Make the commando that elite soldier if random HAM destruction. With all that said I can now finally hit the post button.

Exp24

Wed Mar 24, 2004 8:44 pm

#161

I like all that. But commandos do need to be faster in a lot of areas. Currently they're sloths with big guns. Just look at the defenition of "commando"

a. A small fighting force specially trained for making QUICK DESTRUCTIVE raids against enemy-held areas.

b. A member of such aforce.

We're certainly not quick, and as far as destruction goes all we're good for now is blowing up turrets. Yeah, great. That's really worth 114 skill points.

In fact. I wish it required more. Because blowing up turrets makes the game what it is. What, with the GCW in full throttle and all? Wow! Talk about fun.

Here's what'd make it really fun. Nerf it right out of the game. Because you guys are killing the profession. I mean, fireblankets now? Pffft please.

Here's an idea! Let's give weaponsmiths the ability to make water guns or fire extingishers that when sprayed at a commando will make his flame thrower cease to function for 10 mins! That'd totally make commando a lot better.

Oh, I got another one. Instead of grenades, we'll give the commando rocks!!! Because what do they need weapons for? I mean. Really. We're "highly trained, elite soldiers".

Ok, I'm going to quit now. I know that all these ideas (which incase you missed it were highly sarcastic) will probably be incorporated into the game now. Let's face it. That's what the devs do. Right? They brainstorm and write down all sorts of ideas and pick the worst possible ones.

Oh P.S while you're at it. I really think CM poisons should be more potent. And speed up rifles!!!!

Beezer62

Thu Mar 25, 2004 12:26 am

#162

How about new abilities instead of weapons?

How about fixing the HAR by adding heavy armor peircing, make it faster, and set it's ideal range and special range to long range. It is a rifle afterall.

Move it's skills and mods to the flamethrower tree, and change it to the commando special heavy weapons tree. Maybe even add some pistol mods and launcher pistol moves to it...

Name the new tree the Battlefield support tree.

Level 1: Fox Holes: Builds a small structure similar to how a ranger builds a camp. Anyone in the fox hole gets a bonus to ranged attacks from people outside the fox hole. These should be buildable right up next to a building. This should be an insta skill, no crafting required, high action cost.

Level 2: Sand Bags (well, we'll need a more hightech name): Builds another structure with similar rules to the above, except instead of a bonus to defense roles it acts as armor for everyone inside of it. It will be destroyed and removed from the world once it's durability hits zero.This should require hides and minerals to build, and can be built on top of a fox hole.

Level 3: Restraint. 2 Skills in here. First is a dispersal unit, which is built over a fox hole and provides those inside a defence vs poison and disease. Second would be restraint fields. These act how walls use to in the battle feilds, they restrict movement and los, but can be destroyed. These should require power and a small amount of minerals to craft.

Level 4: Turrents: Allows the commando to craft a turrent similar to those bought from faction recruiters, but a player (not nessesarily the commandomust enter the turrent to control it. When the turrent goes boom it will kill whoever is manning it. The commando's skill in crafting it will determine the to-hit ability. Not sure on what should be used to construct it, probably parts that would have tobe aquiredfrom a weaponsmith or artisan.

Master Box: Pillbox: A combintation of the previous skills, crafted from resources that still need to be determined. This would act as a sandbagged foxhole with a toxin dispersal unit that people could enter and use, and contain a turrent that one of the people inside could man.

I think this would add a lot to big pvp battles.

P.S. I'm unfamiliar with what an Eweb is... could someone describe what one is to me?

this is not my work i just copyed what someone else wrote but i thought this would be ecelent to add to the commando proffesion beezer-62

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Gatgatsugatling

Thu Mar 25, 2004 1:01 pm

#163

I am going to keep this short. The weapons need to be truely looked at because in Star Wars Glop Gernades contain a stickey material that is to restrain targets in a aera effect, not do acid. The terms acid should be desolve. Flechetts are another weapon group that is missing from the game. Missing with a gernade shouldn't be an issue because if your a foot from a explosion you will be hit. The roles in combat of a commando and a bh are messed up because commando sould have a sciouting requirement. One solution to the artillery problem is have a new tree that falls under the support branch of the marksmen tree. Commando should have an equal rival in the braling tree like a "ninja" the ninja uses the support treein marksmen to use cal trops and other snikey traps. Commando as isn't a anything resimbling what a commando should be.

Do the devs or the correspondants even read this because It seems that the commandos are one of the most unrepresented professions in the game.

If their is a problem with commandos being too powerful if it is Changed then make it require other skills or use more skill points because without another profession cross classing we are dead. The only thing we have is the flamethrower because the acid rifle is nice but all in all is poor and not very useful. : Note I have a flame thrower that has the same stats as my acid rifle and the flame thrower is better even with the fire blankets in the game. Gernades have no use as is. Traps if they could be used on everything would be more useful then gernades but they both are poor. The artillery tree is another one of those things that is nice but isn't pratical because It is all about the flamethrower.

Vurtorax

Thu Mar 25, 2004 7:44 pm

#164

Please don't nerf our Flame DoT, it's one of the only things we have going for us. Yes, we deal massive amounts of damage, but we have the longest "reload" time of ANY fighting class. I think our flame DoT should be left alone, if we manage to actually hit someone with our terrible accuracy then he/she should suffer. I'm also incredibly disappointed by the Heavy Acid Rifle. The accuracy and speed for this weapon is terrible for lack of a better word. I'm a Master Commando and I frequently miss nunas and butterflies 3, 4, and 5 times in a row with the H.A.R. when I normally hit the 1st or 2nd time witha Flamethrower. Also, the time between fireacidsingle/cone seems to be much longer, even when my Heavy Acid Rifle has a speed slice for 3.9 and my Flamethrower has 4.8 speed. I feel that since I've used 169 skill points to master Commando, I should hit with my weapons a majority of the time, just like ANY other combat profession that's mastered. I also have terrible accuracy with my other heavy weapons, Heavy Particle Beam Cannons, Rocket Launchers, etc. I don't mind spending 20k and up for these weapons, but at least let me hit my target some (heck,I'dsettle for half)of the time. On Lok the other night I used all 31 uses of my Rocket Launcher (after aiming at least 5 times mind you) on one Kimogila and I hit it 2 times. 2/31 isn't exactly desireable anyway you look at it, especially when it costs you 20k, that's 10k per hit! It's not just Rocket Launchers though, the only weapon in the entire commando profession I have reliable accuracy with is a Flamethrower. So why do I have to use so many skill points for one weapon?

I suggest you fix the accuracy of the H.A.R. at least. I would like to be able to use it on Rancors and other fire-resistant monsters. I think the HAR and Flamethrower skills should be combined too, they are identical except for the weapon that's used. That'd be like having to learn Stopping Shot for a Republic Blaster AND for an FWG5, and since other professions don't have this penalty I don't think Commandos should. I'd also like to see some specialsand speed/accuracy mods for pistols. Commandos only have +60 pistol accuracy and the skills from Pistols I-IV. If we're given a special pistol certification, then it makes sense that we should be able to use it proficiently. This is a key area to me because Commandos need to have a weapon that is fast and accurate and can be used from longer distances. The way things are now we're doomed to the use of slow, innacurate weapons with short ranges (unless we use some of the few remaining skillpoints we have left in the pistoleer/smuggler skill trees). I'd also like to suggest that the flame and acid single/cone specials should have a chance to KD. If you think about it, a blast this powerful in reality would hit very hard, and if apistol shot (Low Blow for those of you who don't know what I'm talking about) can knock someone down then a blast from a flamethrower or H.A.R. should too (I mean specifically the single/cone specials, not a random shot). This would give us a little grace period during which we aren't totally vulnerable after using flame/acidsingle. A lot of people might think I'm trying to UBERIZE the Commando profession, but if someone is willing to spend 169 skill points for Master Commando, then we should have a more diverse, balanced arsenal then some of the professions that spend only 92 skill points.

I'm pretty happy with defenses the way they are set up now for Commandos. I don't think we need any special defense v. "fill in the blank". That would totally frustrate melee classes. They have to get within the range of our most deadly weapons to do any damage, and if Commandos are impossible to KD then the melee's don't stand a fair chance, at least in my opinion. I don't want anyone to think I'm bitter, I just have a lot of expectations and hopes for us Commandos. As it stands, it's a very fun profession, shooting big guns with big explosions. I'd just like to see some improvements in the areas I've listed so that Commandos can become the PvP fighters we were meant to be, but not GODS. If the Commando class can't be improved, then at least cut us some slack and reduce the amount of skill points it takes

VURTORAX

BOUNTY HUNTER

BANE OF JEDI - PVP GOD

Exp24

Thu Mar 25, 2004 8:09 pm

#165

Heh, where have you been? Flame DOT was nerfed plenty already.

Vurtorax

Thu Mar 25, 2004 8:47 pm

#166

Haven't played in 3 weeks.

VURTORAX

BOUNTY HUNTER

BANE OF JEDI - PVP GOD

BendoDark

Fri Mar 26, 2004 1:09 am

#167

Ienvision the commandos as heavy units. They should be like mobile artillery. The should have rocket launchers, mortars and heavy repeater rifles. The rockets launchers and mortars could only be launch from a kneeling position and could only be used every 30 seconds. But their rockets and mortars would be devastating. There could take out a AT-ST in a few shots with a rocketlauncher. Their mortars could be a long range (100m+) AOE that could reek havoc on tightly knitted groups of advancing soldiers. The heavy repeater rifles would need to be mountedand restricted to a prone posture.However, It could lay down, highly inaccurate but highly devastating AOEs that could blanket an area with a halo of blaster bolts for minutes at a time.

StarNick

Sat Mar 27, 2004 12:44 am

#168

Ivoni tho, our defense mods are good..we seriously need a Counter..doesnt have to be around +100 like other elites..just maybe +50..just something..and perhaps even defense acuity to tie unarmed in..

Dont know if you said that...and i missed it...hehe...but i do believe without counters, Hybrids will never be as viable as the elite profs

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TheDukeofPolo

Sun Mar 28, 2004 7:53 pm

#169

Make the Heavy Acid Rifle count as a Rifleman gun too so Master Commandos and Master Rifleman could be actually work

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