Development Cycle Archive

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Thunderheart wrote:

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What defines theCommando role in combat?

Overall i see the commando as filling two diffrent roles. The first one is that of a versatile "jack of all trades" in terms of the 'normal' ranged weapons (Pistols, rifles and carbines). A commando should never outdo a pistoleer with a pistol or a rifleman with a rifle. But he be competent enough with them to be able to use them as viable weapons. Commandos are the class in the game with most diffrent weapon certifications.. the problem is that they currrently are next to useless with the vast majority. The second role is that of the heavy weapon specialist. With heavy weapons the commando should be the top damage dealer in the game. High AP rateing weapons with high damage to go with them. The tradeoff should be the lack of defence, little or no defences of anytype. Commandos should be your best friend when you want to bring down the toughest targets out there, AT-ST's, Krayts, Nightsisters etc.

What basic combat elements should they possess?

Lots of damage at all ranges, but little to no status effect specials aside from the flame dot. No knockdown/dizzy's, no blind, stun or what have you.. just a some really big holes in the target.

What offensive abilities?

See above.. lots of damage, little to no effect specials

What defensive abilities?

Little to none. No class should need tanks as much as the commando

What unique abilities?

Possibly something special to use against turrets (like explosives mentioned several times earlier in the thread), aside from that.. just lots of damage.

Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?

Biggest damage dealer in the group, but more dependant on others to avoid damage.

How could/should they interact with other professions?

They would of course buy / interact with weapinsmiths, armorsmiths, chefs, docs and entertainers like all combat classes.

What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?

The commando would in general be more dependant on 'tanks' than any other combat class due to thier low / non-existant defences

What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?

Damage output and possibly one of the few classes with access to blast damage, they would be extreamly usefull in base assaults, to take down turrets, and / or AT-ST's

Surgested specific changes:

To give the commandos more versatility and to add meaning to the master marksman pre-req, add some moderate bonuses to pistol, rifle and carbine speed and accuracy, as well as one decent damage oriented special. Possible put the damage special in master marksman, currently the master marksman box is sadly lacking (a real simple solution would be to simply remove the weapon decay effect from overchargeshot2). The bonuses and special should be nice enough that a commando would be able to use some of his marksman weapons pretty effectivly, but not so nice that he is in leauge with the professions specializeing in these weapons.

To help the heavy weapons along, i would like to see a new 'machine gun' heavy weapon added to complement the flamethrower. Either make the acid rifle a long range weapon or just remove it in favor of something more interesting. As for granades and disposable heavy weapons i would love to see them changed to the weapon itself was no long disposable, but rather need to ammo added. The ammunition could work like powerups for other weapons. Drag and drop 'photon granades powerups' to the granade launcher to lead it for a number of shots, drag rockets to the rocket launcher ect. Also look these weapons over closely, currently thier damage and attack speed as well as other issues (no movement with heavy weapons, high ham cost, risk of hurting yourself with granades), makes them next to pointless in my experience (except to 'farm' combat xp)

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Thunderheart wrote:

Given the basic considerations listed above, please answer the following questions:

What defines theCommando role in combat?

Well, we require the MOST combat skill points of ANY profession, so we SHOULD be powerful...

What basic combat elements should they possess?

Better HAR, grenades that actually hit outside of blast radius, easier to make heavy weapons, and SOMETHING that uses our Master Marksman/Unarmed IV abilities! (lets face it, all the prequisets are WORTHLESS!)

What offensive abilities?

We require the most points right? Really good offensive abilities then.

What defensive abilities?

First off, damn you for the return to us being given another to-hit bonus for melee guys. We require 167(or was it 267?)skill points, lets actually be able to defend ourselves!

What unique abilities?

The ability to actually fight...we have lacked it for a long time...

How could/should they interact with other professions?

Be able to blow them up

What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?

Blowing stuff up

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I think grenades should play a more prominent role in combat for commandos. Here is what I suggests.

Grenades

• Grenades should have a chance to do a special ability upon impact if they hit. Ex. Thermal detonators should have a XX% chance to KD all targets that it hits in the blast radius.


• Addition of new grenade types Flash Grenades, Concussion grenades, Plasma Grenades, Sonic grenades, Gas grenades, Ion grenades




• Flash grenade- Blast dmg, relatively low dmg, chance to blind the target's in the blast area


• Concussion grenade- Blast dmg, relatively low dmg, chance to dizzy target's in the blast area


• Plasma Grenade- Heat dmg, high dmg, chance of lighting the target's in the blast area on fire


• Sonic Grenades- Stun dmg, low-medium dmg, chance to stun all targets in the blast area


• Ion grenades- Ion dmg, high dmg vs. droids (this would require adding a new type of dmg obviously)

With just those few additions it gives a commando more options than just running around with a flame thrower lighting everything on fire, makes them a more valuable assetin both PVP and PVE in enclosed environments such as dungeons, It would encourage the use of an expedable item and therefore help further the economy.

- Defence Mods: we have virtually nothing, and what we do have is useless. For instance, we can't PVP, unless it's against Novice Marksmen. -

New Weapons: Ok, we've got flame.....Well, I've used everything else and it's useless. Plus, nobody really makes those other weapons, and most of them are expensive and have very limited uses. Some sort of assault rifle or weapon of mass destruction would suffice.

- PVP Playable: Currently, you'd have to have some insane buffs to make it far in PVP. This is due to many factors, two of which have already been mentioned above. Defence, weapons and finally the fact that the role of a commando in combat is "support"....Well, this needs to change. The fact that Commando is a hybrid profession and requires more skill points than Pistoleer for example. Yet a Master Marksman/Pistoleer/Carbineer can drop a Commando easily is simply unfair.

Sure, all professions have pluses and minuses. But take into consideration all that is lacking from this profession, the number of skill points needed, the fact that we have to be at melee range to do any real damage. Is this realistic? NO! Take the first flame throwers used on the Western Front in 1914. They had a max range of 25 meters which was later upped to 40 meters! Considering this is Star Wars, where weaponry is so advanced, shouldn’t the flame thrower be a LONG range weapon? Rather than some Poor excuse for a weapon which can’t even compare to something used in 1914??? Also take into consideration that if you used a flame thrower at such close range in reality. You’d either catch on fire or who/whatever you were attacking would probably Charge towards you and set you on fire too!

Overall: DOTs need to be stackable; otherwise damage has to be increased dramatically. Why? Look at the rate of fire on flame throwers, it’s so slow. I’m often dead before I can even heal myself because I’m waiting for the flippin’ thing to reload.

Basically the whole problem started here. Commando was great, until stackable DOT was removed due to “Exploiting”. Then creatures HAM was increased 10 fold. So when it comes to hunting, we stand no chance. Add the poor defence we have, the poor rate of fire, the range we have to be at, and the fact that flame DOT stinks and that = Instant death even against a simple Piket. Most mobs will dish out more damage, faster. And in the end we’re on our backs watching them clap or laugh.

The whole idea of Commando as support role has to be dropped! It's either that or change the required skill points to like.....5...Because that's all it's worth in its current state.

1) What Defines the Commando's role in combat?

What is a commando? A commando is an elite soldier specially trained in weapon use(sniper, heavy weapons, drop off charges like shape charges or claymores, grenades), communications, field medicine, demolition and explosives techniques, hand-to-hand combat, land warfare, recon and intel gathering, covert infiltration of a target via air, sea or land and on and on. I found this information, and quite a bit more, on the officail Navy Seals web site. I thought of checking the Green Berets too, but figured the information wouldn't be too much different.

So, in comparison, what should a SWG commando's role be? If you're calling something a duck it should look and act like a duck. So, since we're calling it a commando, it should be like a commando: Hand-to-hand combat, demolition and explosives expertise, multiple weapons expertise including both light and heavy weapons and field medicine-after all, who patches up the commandos in RL? They do.

Commandos are highly trained soldiers, specially trained to function together as a self-reliant unit. Their roles in combat are to hit with precision and swiftness doing extensive damage to their target due to their expertise and special weapons capabilities.

2) What basic combat elements should they possess?

To coincide with what a commando truly is, SWG commandos should possess skills in heavy weapons, ,hand-to-hand combat(though they should truly extend past their current level-if we're required to build a skill, for God's sake, make it useful), basic field medicine(require a little bit of medic to get there-perhaps one column), explosives techniques(encompassing grenades, booby traps, wall breaching) and weapons specialty skills(such as sniper skills, close quarter arms skills, knock-down shots, etc.) Hmmmm.... Most interesting - there are four skill trees in a profession and how many combat elements(not counting basic field medicine)did I name? Very interesting.

3) What offensive abilities?

I believe i covered that under #2, above, but I'll throwa couple of ideas in here, as well.

The commando currently has 3 columns that require heavy weapon's experience. Currently, commandos develop the flamethrower column and continue to use the flamethrower to develop all the other columns as well. That's just lame. How does using a flamethrower train me to use an acid rifle? It shouldn't. And it shouldn't train me to use a grenade either. These things must either require seperate experience or be lumped into one tree, the heavy weapons tree. This column should require as much heavy weapons xp to complete as the 3 columns in existence now require. Commandos can suck up the experience likea hungry hog at the slop trough eats a meal, so why not require them to work to get there? I mastered commando on a steady diet of war gronda in about a week, and I did not play 24/7. It should not be that easy.

Also, if possible, there should be a column dedicated to those weapons the commando had to train in to become a commando, the pistol, carbine and rifle. Perhaps this column could be built with combat xp and could build upon the skills gained in the ranged support column of the marksman, but should include skills commandos truly use-such as sniper skills with a rifle, close quarter combat with a pistol and perhaps knock-down shots with a carbine. Some things as basic as that would show a true purpose to having trained in those weapons in the first place.

Many commandos feel the brawler column was nothing more than a hindrance to becoming a commando. If a commando is truly required to perform hand-to-hand combat, there should be a hand-to-hand column in the commando skills. It should not be anywhere near as powerful as a master TKA by any means, but should include certification in Vibro-knuckles as well as some skills that truly make the commando's hand-to-hand combat skills useful at times, so we don't just run around flaming everything.

EXPLOSIVES: This is where commandos should truly shine seperately from the other professions. If a commando is a demolition expert, then please give him true demolition abilities. There should bea column requiring demolition xp or explosives xp, which can only be gained by use of hand-grenades, drop-off charges similar to today's claymore mines and shape charges, setting explosive booby traps like today's commandos actually do. Maybe breaching walls is something that would be too difficult to integrate into the programming of SWG, but we should be able to set explosive traps for people, the way scouts can set traps for creatures.

4) What defensive abilities?

Commandos function best under the cover of darkness. It provides a level of defense far superior to daylight operations. You'll find that all insertions into hostile territory are plannedas night time operations. Sometimes, things don't work out as planned, but the effort is made to function in the dark as an added measure of defense.

Commandos also operate at a pace that maintains safety. They don't rush into an unsecured area without just cause. Casualties are kept toa minimum by not going any faster than necessary. Commando units crossing land frequently travel at the speed of one mile per hour. We know they can really move faster than that but they are being smart and protecting their most valuable asset - each other.

So, what is a commando's best defense? Using their brain. I don't know if a commando needs any special defensive skills. Perhaps they might receive a passive bonus to things like knock-down or dizzy - after all, commandos are trained to remain awake for days at a time to accomplish their missions. Their focus during battle should be a little more unflappable than others. But, beyond that, the commando's offensive might should make up for any lack of special defensive capabilities.

5) What unique abilities?

The heavy weapons skills and explosives/demolition skills should be the primary unique abilities of the commando. Also, perhaps a skill that denotes the battle focus a commando should be able to maintain.

Furthermore, there really should be a definite skill or skills that seperate the master commando from the "grenadeer" or whatever that title has become. Building one column of flamethrower skills should not make a character as powerful in combat with a flamethrower than a master commando. Yes, the master gets flamecone2, but it rarely works as intended and definitely does not work well at moments when the commando could really use it. So, besides just wanting to, why did I become a master commando? Oh, yeah, the cool title.

6) Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?

Commandos are the heavy hitters, utilizing modern heavy weapons such as heavy machine guns, grenades, drop-off charges, grenade launchers, anti-tank guns. Their purpose should not stray far from that. Their advantage would be in the traps they can set as well as the heavy weapons they can use for extensive damage, especially against AT-STs and AT-ATs should the latter ever appear in the game. They should also be able to function in other capacities, such as sniper, should the need arise. Their skill should not rival that of a master rifleman, but should surpass the master marksman by far.

7) How could/should they interact with other professions?

I believe everyone else's posts havesummed it up pretty well. Commandos need supplies from weaponsmiths, armorsmiths, medical professionals, chefs. They need services from doctors, entertainers, combat medics. And no matter how tough a character is, there's alway something or someone who can kick your butt, so grouping together will always happen.

8) What interaction/dependencies should exist with other combatants?

The commando is not a great PvP profession. The attacks are just too slow. I've dueled with a buddy for fun and he kicks my patoot because his pistol attacks are so much faster than my flame thrower(which is sliced down to a 3.2 attack speed-pretty fast for a flamer). He knocks me down first thing and I can never get back up, he keeps knocking me down and firing away. So, a commando definitely has his vulnerabilities in combat. As part of a group the commando will interact just as everyone interacts - the commando will do as much damage to the enemy as possible and try to stay alive. Not much different than everyone else. With some basic med skills the commando could also serve as a back-up medic to help out the group.

9) What should be their unique role in galactic civil war?

They should be the military demolition experts, the advanced soldiers who take out the heavy guns before the main troops make their way in. The covert soldiers who sneak behind the lines to infiltrate the target and take it out or secure and defend it.

If all my ideas were implemented somehow, the commando as we know it would be totally changed. It wouldn't be fair for those who've mastered commando as it is to suddenly gain master level skills without having earned the xp for these new columns. Perhaps the combat xp, apprentice xpand skill points spent on skills that no longer exist could be refunded and the commando could then choose to continue on and regain master commando status or they could simply maintain their heavy weapons column if that is all they are interested in and gain skills from other classes. I would prefer this myself, so that the new master commando skills would be ones that I had earned through a variety of skills, and not just by burning everything with a flamethrower.

Also, I realize my proposals would make the commando an incredibly powerful profession, but they should be highly skilled and very tough. And, if each profession receives this kind of revamp to make them all more fun, then they'll all end up more powerful and everything will even out in the long run.

Thanks for taking the time to read this. I hope the revamp of commando does take place and all the columns in the skill tree become truly useful. That would make the commando a true joy to play.

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kenrw24 wrote:

If you're calling something a duck it should look and act like a duck. So, since we're calling it a commando, it should be like a commando

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