Development Cycle Archive

Thread: Understanding the Crafting Experimentation Changes

Gnirak
Fri Mar 12, 2004 4:33 pm
#157

and now the miners who sell there resources for 25 cpu that i couldn't afford will now be charging friggin over 100cpu for the good stuff... guess i drop crafting and go bh like my holo told me






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Layurame
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LadyLeala
Fri Mar 12, 2004 4:36 pm
#158

I have yet to experiment with the new crafting system. I'm not a Test Center player, so I won't do anything with it until the publish is released.


From what I've seen people say in regards to it, it sounds "interesting".


But one thing really raises a flag with me. And that is the idea of this being a "fix for the economy". I don't see lowering the overall quality of products as a fix to any economy.


I am leary about this change, though. I have so often seen "profession revamps" or "system revamps" for things that have bugs in them. You know... when I buy a new version of Windows, it has bugs in it. But they don't release another version of Windows 3 months later and say "This will fix all the problems with the last version." Likewise, I don't buy a new car that has a factory defect and then expect to just get the thing replaced when something is wrong with the climate control. I get it fixed.


I feel very strongly that the economy is not in the shape it is due to monopolies. It is much moreso due to lack of decay in the right areas.


Paint decay? Wrong target. Vehicle decay? Correct target. Why isn't it this way? No clue...


Factional buildings purchased through recruiters only? Wrong target. Factional SCHEMATICS purchased through recruiters and crafted by players? Correct target. Why isn't it this way? /boggle


Colors are removed from item naming to make it "fair" for how people sell on Bazaar? Wrong target. Bazaar sorting and vendor planetary map advertising is broken at best (see merchant forums) andneeds to be addressed? Correct target.


I'd like to see more attention paid to areas such as this.


I'm very curious about the effect on crafting and/or the economy with this new system. I fear that with a huge drop in the player base (meaning if many people cancel their subscriptions), that will just undo any potential enhancement to the economy anyway. I wait to see...



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PanzerGR
Fri Mar 12, 2004 4:37 pm
#159

HORRIBLE IDEA!!!


oe of the biggets problems on my server is PRICES. we pay double what most other servers pay for items.


while i agree that there needs to be mor evariety...this is NOT the way to do it...........oh man i cant wait to see prices sky rocket *sigh*






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plonger
Fri Mar 12, 2004 4:39 pm
#160

Well, I was personally disappointed with their explaination for this crafting change as there are much more direct ways of controlling or fixing a broken economy that won't affect how the players currently make items.


Here is how I would suggest a crafting revamp be done, using a pistol as an example. A pistol can be crafted using five parts that include a barrel, a powersource, handle/grip, scope, and body/casing. The variety of the finished weapon comes into play by making each of these parts variable depending not only on the quality of the resources used to craft them, but also the types of materials too. For instance, the barrel could be crafted using aluminum, copper, steel, titanium, or whatever metal you had laying around. A aluminum barrel would be very lightweight, but wouldn't last as long as a steel one. A powersource could be made to last a long time, or provide a bigger surge of power, but at a reduced lifetime.


Now once all these sub-parts were made, they would have various effects onweapon durability, ham cost, damage, speed, and accuracy. Using this system, one smith could produce a high damage/speed weapon, but in order to do so, would have had to make some choices early on that would allow them to change five aspects of the weapon. This system would allow the newer smiths to use materials that have better stats on average like aluminum to compete with the smiths who had some uber steel stashed from months ago, only thing is that the new smiths gun wouldn't last as long, or might be less accurate.


I'm sure somebody with more experience crafting could expand this to make more sense, but that is how I would like to see crafting in this game.


Chrysalide
Fri Mar 12, 2004 4:40 pm
#161





RallyFire wrote:

Oh and one more thing I know you guys say you always read and lurk around but just checking... are you guys reading this?




Yes, we are!





AnXdietywrote:

Have a fun and safe weekend with the other dev's as this seems to be the norm now. Its now normal for you guys to post volitile information on a Friday afternoon, let things get heated up and walk away from it. Thanks for having a "discussion" rather than a statement. Just shows how much the player base's ideas and input actually mean to the core systems of the game.





I assure you that we are not doing a "post-and-run". We will be still be reviewing the comments and questions for a good while this evening, and over the weekend as well. I havecompiled a list of the top concerns from the thread already, and have put it up for discussion and commentto some of the other developers. We will review these and get some comments and feedbackto you all as soon as possible.


Thank you to everyone for all of your comments and suggestions (both good and bad) so far.




Jeff "Chrysalide" Carpenter
SWG Lead Systems Designer

DarthPierce
Fri Mar 12, 2004 4:42 pm
#162




Wow... I know all I'm doing is echoing the sentiments of many others, but this is just silly. By making products depend more heavily on the quality of resources used, you do nothing but gaurantee that only the richest, oldest crafters are able to produce goods anyone wants. Only the richest and oldest crafters will be able to afford the best resources. In any given crafting profession there has been one shift of a certain resource that is "the best" that resource has ever been. Those who have this best resource will now have an even greater advantage over those who do not. New crafters will not be able to compete in any sense of the word unless they too can get ahold of this resource, either by having a new better resource come along while they can get it or by paying insane amounts to obtain it from those who have it. All doctors who craft on Intrepid for example know and covet several resources:


Eikoro Dolovite iron (why? because it is a lot better than any other dolovite ever on the server);


Hiawhe dantooine berries (why? because they are much better than any other dantooine berries);


Auwhe Talusian water (why? It's superior to all other Talusina water);


Gaibblow Lokian wild wheat (yes, again the best wheat ever)


The list continues... my point is that those who do not have these resources are unable to make meds as good as those who do. So say you are a relative newcomer to the Doctor profession: (You've been a doc for only 3 months) do you have any of these resources? You might have the iron if you found about about it before it was gone... it didn't last long. So after publish 7, docs who have all the old resources will still be producing say 880 power buffpacks with 3 hour duration. Your new doc will be producing 500 power buffpacks with 2 hour duration.


Now that means to consumers that Doc Old can buff them for say 2200 on each stat (since there is now no variablility in buffs) while Doc New can buff them for 1250 on each stat. Who is going to be selling buffs? The 2200 buff for 3 hours or the 1250 buff for 2 hours?


If you could buy the same type of weapon (gun X) with100-300 speed 4.5 weapon for 25k orone with50-180 at 5.5 for 4k? would you pay 1k? 300? anything at all for the inferior weapon produced by the newer master weaponsmith without the Uber resources? is this going to make it easier for your aspiring 2-2-2-2 weaponsmith making (gun x) with even worse stats... like 30-120 at 6.3 speed? would you even let it sit taking up space in your inventory if someone paid you to have it when you could get such a superior weapon from an old time smith?


This is helping balance crafting how?


Newcomers to a craft are hurt tremendously... unable to produce a product anyone wants without spending tens of millions on resources or waiting months or years for new resources to spawn. An increase in competition, you say? All the old time crafters have the same Uber resources and will continue having identical products, while new crafters products look oven worse in comparison.


This is going to lead to new crafters how?


Sigh.... well, at least i will have more time for other things... warm weather is coming, and it will be good for me to stop wasting hours on this game... lol


FulminataXII
Fri Mar 12, 2004 4:42 pm
#163

* boggle *


I just don't understand how the devs can't see that this "solution" will actually exacerbate the problems they described.


Jehdrick
Fri Mar 12, 2004 4:43 pm
#164

another thought!! you have stated all along you don't want this to be a soloable game you "Like" groups etc etc well now since you have made good resources cost an arm and 2 legs!! we shall all now (if we are crafters and continue to play) be forced into solitude to survey and maintain harvesters!!!


a journey of a thousand miles begins with one step! ..Chinese proverb


We fix whats Not broken and leave brokenunfixed!! .. SOE proverb





Heane
Egdee
Fri Mar 12, 2004 4:48 pm
#165

Thank you for the explanation. This just confirms the speculation that the development team are illogical morons



This isn't flying, this is falling, with style!


TroThorns
Fri Mar 12, 2004 4:49 pm
#166






Chrysalide wrote:





RallyFire wrote:

Oh and one more thing I know you guys say you always read and lurk around but just checking... are you guys reading this?




Yes, we are!





AnXdietywrote:

Have a fun and safe weekend with the other dev's as this seems to be the norm now. Its now normal for you guys to post volitile information on a Friday afternoon, let things get heated up and walk away from it. Thanks for having a "discussion" rather than a statement. Just shows how much the player base's ideas and input actually mean to the core systems of the game.





I assure you that we are not doing a "post-and-run". We will be still be reviewing the comments and questions for a good while this evening, and over the weekend as well. I havecompiled a list of the top concerns from the thread already, and have put it up for discussion and commentto some of the other developers. We will review these and get some comments and feedbackto you all as soon as possible.


Thank you to everyone for all of your comments and suggestions (both good and bad) so far.








Well I hope you listen to the right people. This whole thing reminds me of a scene from Armageddon. Where the presidet's advisors are telling him to detonate the nuclear weapon on the surface and the NASA scientists says that is a horrible idea, and that the president's advisor got a C in astrophysics.


SOE the fact you even considered implementing this change means you are listening to the C student. Whoever you are listening to clearly doesn't have a clue. It is time to listen to people who know what they are talking about. This change will accomplish none of the purposes you have stated for its goals. In fact it is counterproductive to those goals. It doesn't take a genius to figure this stuff out. Really. It is pretty simple.




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CaLVines
Fri Mar 12, 2004 4:51 pm
#167

Sorry, this is total b*ll**edit**.

You (as in you, SOE) haven't listenend to out concerns. Heck, did anyone even read the threads we posted? You argumentation is as stupid as it was before, and every single argument in this post we have heard before and have proven before why this is bad.

You want that people have to make tough decisions? Well, currently, evceryone maxes out damage/speed on a weapon, and then makes the decision where to put the remaining points. With you new system, everyone will put every point into damage/speed. Now you tell me how this is better?

You want new crafters to get into the market? Well, with your new system, we depends even more on resources. Better resources = better weapons. Only the established smiths or very rich players will have the best resources. Even worse, given equal resources and your new system, there will be NO difference between the products (where as I said above, currently at elast some poeple choose HAM, some choose range, some choose condition). And of course, the ridicoulusly expensive experimentation tapes are only available to the established and rich crafters. Now you tell me how this helps new crafters getting into the market?


You say that "We believe that the introduction of items with a wider variety of attributes". Please show me how this is achieved with the new system. All your new system does is making items even mroe dependant on resources and garuanteeing that only the richest crafters can put 2 points in more than one attribute.

This is the most insulting and unlogical answer you could have come up with. All your lack of resepct and lack of communication and lack of professionalism aside, you are not making any sense.

I'm not sure if you guys just wanted came up with something to make us shut up without even thinking about it, or if you really believe this. Either way, if you push this to live, I'll finally cnacel my accounts.
Cresto
Fri Mar 12, 2004 4:52 pm
#168

You need to completely re-think this.


Your logic is completely flawed.

Itis clear thateither:

1) You have no idea how crafting works in practice


If you want people to care aboutattributes other then encumberance, resists, damage, speed, etc. then you need to make experimentationmuch more effective on those underutilized attributes.


Shimond
Fri Mar 12, 2004 4:52 pm
#169

If you really are trying to fix the economy what are you doing about all the massive amounts of weapons/armor/etc being crafted right now in anticipation of this patch?

With the kind of advanced warning the Devs are giving the playerbase and just the rate at which good things decay (people are STILL selling 'pre-patch' FWG5s and when was the patch on those? months ago) I don't see how this change does anything to fix the economy within the next YEAR or so.

-Shi
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