Development Cycle Archive
Thread: Understanding the Crafting Experimentation Changes
FangbonerX
Fri Mar 12, 2004 4:11 pm
#144
Chrysalide wrote:
To put not too fine a point on it, the game economy is in poor shape.
Please try using your 'fine point' on this....because simply saying the economy is in 'poor shape' doesn't justify squat. It definitely doesn't make me feel any better about this blanket weapons nerf masked as a crafting improvement.
Kevy
Fri Mar 12, 2004 4:15 pm
#145
This change sucks worse than crap! DON'T DO IT. HOW MANY TIMES DO WE HAVE TO TELL YOU? DON'T DO IT! DON'T DO IT! STOP THE MADNESS. Just don't.. do it. It's stupid.
darthmole12
Fri Mar 12, 2004 4:16 pm
#146
Chrysalide wrote:
To put not too fine a point on it, the game economy is in poor shape. There are a few factors that contribute to the detrimental condition of the economy, and we are reviewing and assessing them all. Of these factors, one of the most significant is the ability for many crafters to easily maximize the attributes of items and equipment through experimentation.
I really don't see thus asthe most significant problem. IMHO, the problem is inflation, and the cause of inflation is artificial injection of lots of credits into the economy. Why can WS get away with charging 100k for their FWG5? It's NOT because their FWG5 is 90% experimented; rather, it's because to a fighter, 100k is basically nothing. People who only have a few skills in an elite combat class can easily solo Savage Quenker missions, which in an Improved Job market pays out almost 8k credits...you run 12 of those and you can pay for that top-of-the-line FWG5. The crafting change will NOT change the prices for a top-of-the-line FWG5.FWG5s of today sell for as much as, if no more than, the top-of-the-lineFWG5 pistol before the power supply change that weakened them. And Savage Quenker missions are only a tame example. I know several high-end combat characters who can solo Enraged Rancor missions and make like 25k a mission.
The other major problem is the credit/resource duping. Granted, I'm sure you all have banned lots of people who were caught, but for everyone who was caught I'd venture to say there were two who weren't. This caused a huge amount of inflation, all of a sudden there was a lot more money in the economy, and lots of prices went up.
I think that in order to fix this problem, what needs to be done is either mission payouts should be decreased, reducing the amount of money injected into the economy, OR increasing the number/cost of sinks for the high-end crafter, as to balance out the amount of money that comes in and goes out of the system.
Thanks,
Ragnaat
Fri Mar 12, 2004 4:17 pm
#147
Chrysalide and or any other designer reading this:
I am not currently a weaponsmith, just an informed player. As an informed player I have noticed that resources are so important to weaponsmithing - even before this experimentation change - and for some the spawns so far apart that I have already begun harvesting them (when I don't need the 'crap' for slice tools or spices) in anticipation of moving into weaponsmithing in a few months. Now, with this patch, I am strongly reconsidering my future. When you have a situation that Skevon gas or Ryll Gems or whatever else doesn't spawn on a server for 2 or 3 months and then it does and it is 1/5 of the quality of that same resource that other have hundreds of thousands of units stockpiled I'd argue that resources are already, in many ways, too important to the new crafter breaking through.
But moving beyond that (mostly because that point has already been stated by many others in this thread) I just have one question for you as designers of this long term system:
Q: Since this change was based on the long term health of the game's economies what is your projection for the length of the pre-nerf market for Weapons, Armor, Foods & Medicines?
I already decided that I'd deal with the resource competition aspect of becoming a weaponsmith. I realized it would take a couple months of reloading harvesting to ramp up to a point where I would be happy with the product I could sell. But faced with 3, 4 or 6 months of competing with established Masters with 3rd and 4th accounts filled with crated prenerf'd 12exp. point weapons I'm just not going to do it.
So now I'm left wondering what I'm going to switch to when I get bored with my current smuggler/tkm template (which given the lack of any reason to keep smuggler is going to be pretty soon). Unfortunately, one of those options I'm strongly considering is go full on combat tempalte until I get bored and quit.
I am not currently a weaponsmith, just an informed player. As an informed player I have noticed that resources are so important to weaponsmithing - even before this experimentation change - and for some the spawns so far apart that I have already begun harvesting them (when I don't need the 'crap' for slice tools or spices) in anticipation of moving into weaponsmithing in a few months. Now, with this patch, I am strongly reconsidering my future. When you have a situation that Skevon gas or Ryll Gems or whatever else doesn't spawn on a server for 2 or 3 months and then it does and it is 1/5 of the quality of that same resource that other have hundreds of thousands of units stockpiled I'd argue that resources are already, in many ways, too important to the new crafter breaking through.
But moving beyond that (mostly because that point has already been stated by many others in this thread) I just have one question for you as designers of this long term system:
Q: Since this change was based on the long term health of the game's economies what is your projection for the length of the pre-nerf market for Weapons, Armor, Foods & Medicines?
I already decided that I'd deal with the resource competition aspect of becoming a weaponsmith. I realized it would take a couple months of reloading harvesting to ramp up to a point where I would be happy with the product I could sell. But faced with 3, 4 or 6 months of competing with established Masters with 3rd and 4th accounts filled with crated prenerf'd 12exp. point weapons I'm just not going to do it.
So now I'm left wondering what I'm going to switch to when I get bored with my current smuggler/tkm template (which given the lack of any reason to keep smuggler is going to be pretty soon). Unfortunately, one of those options I'm strongly considering is go full on combat tempalte until I get bored and quit.
Tuanga
Fri Mar 12, 2004 4:21 pm
#148
All I know is I'm making a ton of armor this weekend before the patch. Selling it off, filling my guildies pockets, then letting my 2 accounts run out. This will be the 2nd time I have quit this game and I can guarantee I won't be back. And yeah I'm a +12 Armorsmith so I should be happy that I stand to benefit from this patch, but it's just stupid to be making these kinds of major changes 9 months into the game. I feel sorry for any new crafter just starting out.
Ragnaat
Fri Mar 12, 2004 4:23 pm
#149
Let me just add one last comment on my previous post - It is not just the current crafters that will drive the length of the pre-nerf market, but also those consumers, who like me, have and will be buying a fair amount of goods now... its already common for me to buy 4 or 5 weapons at a time until I get some good slices... but realistically how long do you think my stockpile of half a dozen of each weapon I use should last me.
(given the only reason I've ever purchased a weapon is to get a better one and not to replace a broken one I'd argue that time frame for weapons is close to never)
(given the only reason I've ever purchased a weapon is to get a better one and not to replace a broken one I'd argue that time frame for weapons is close to never)
Marcalus
Fri Mar 12, 2004 4:24 pm
#150
Bravo for the change.
The game designer in me completely agrees.
You're gonna catch a load of flack for this...stick to your guns for the good of the game, please.
_Kevlar_
Fri Mar 12, 2004 4:24 pm
#151
I would say that a change now is too late. Due to the poor economy, most veteran players have stocked piled enough very good items to last them until they find another game to play. If my weapon and armor last me a month, I easily have a years worth of stock to meddle around with and now that I know about this change, I'll probably double that stock.
So in effect all this does is further place the new players are a spot of increasing disadvantage.
This is probably as bad as the bazaar change, which just upped the price of most raw materials, making the rich, richer and the "new" crafter have even a harder time getting into the market.
By the way, what ever happened to the ColoredText on craftables. We were supposedly going to hear back on this issue, but that was like 60 days ago. I would really enjoy hearing about how that change helped premium sales, which I still never see.
SaseO
Fri Mar 12, 2004 4:26 pm
#152
ok this has proboly been said before but how will it help the economy, it will create yet another pre-nerf market and make all item the same ppl want damage in wepaons ect we can only fill on line then no more exerimentation on it plain and simple pls devs pull your head out of your.....you know where im going with this. I give one month after this goes live and the economy will be even worse than it is. do any of you have a degree in economics well my wife does and she would laugh at this incompotent atempt to save the economy. you all must be republicans because you think saving the economy means the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. news flash it dont work that way . you do realize experimentation tapes prices will go even higher now you must realize that. well the devs realy know how to turn a bar of gold into a pile of crap good job (yes i mean sarcasticly) there im done ranting.
GrafvonSoden
Fri Mar 12, 2004 4:26 pm
#153
Crafting is the least of your problems as it relates to the "Economy" of the galaxies. Ninja looting, afk macro camping looting and ebay buying of credits etc is what is/has actually destroyed the economy. Some people have a bazillion credits while other have mere hundreds of thousands. Until that is corrected - there will be no real economy in this game. "YOUR TOO LATE" with the cure. The patient has died.
Martinb4
Fri Mar 12, 2004 4:29 pm
#154
People, people!
The poor will NOT get poorer....
The poor will leave the game, and newcomers will quit after the free month. Heck, i have a bunch of cash and do not want to deal with the hassles of a "pre-nerf" market. Someone who can't even afford it will just say srew it. Plain and simple.
alisdair
Fri Mar 12, 2004 4:33 pm
#155
Haha, this has to be the stupidest crafting change I've ever seen in any online game.
Tricki
Fri Mar 12, 2004 4:33 pm
#156
TroThorns wrote:
SAKyroCilliani wrote:
TO: SONY ONLINE ENTERTAINMENT, SW:G DEVELOPMENT TEAM
FROM: KYRO
SUBJECT: DESIGN DECISIONS
YOU ARE QUITE POSSIBLY THE BIGGEST GROUP OF RETARDS WITH ACCESS TO COMPUTERS I HAVE EVER SEEN IN MY LIFE. THE **edit**ING PROBLEM IS NOT YOUR **edit**MOLESTING "ITEMS" BEING TOO GOOD, IT'S THE LACK OF MONEY SINKS, WHICH A CHILD COULD OBVIOUSLY **edit**ING SEE. I WOULD LOVE TO HAVE YOU 100k A YEAR SALARY TO **edit** UP AS MUCH AS YOU MORONS, SO IF YOU HAVE ANY OPENINGS, PLEASE SEND ME A PM.
Normally I would disregard messages like this. But in this case I think it is absolutely accurate.
True.