Development Cycle Archive
Thread: IC 1-17 Star Wars Galaxies Combat Profession Mix and Match
Im for no mix/match in the advanced Combat Professions.
When i hold a rifle, only my rifle Bonuses should count, when i hold my 2h Blade,
only bonuses from that profession count.
The possibility of amassig Dodge Bonusaes from 2 Profesions goes to
much towards doing the ultimata PvP-Character, and leaves all those who
fo other things in the minus, for Ex: Crafter/Figher, Entertainer/Fighter, Scout/Fighter
keep the templates but make theyre so powerful now that PvP is ruined by it. there should be things like split the defences mods out like you did on CHI feel the game setup has the right line of thought, it just doesn't seem to carry on in that line. For instance, if you learn Marksman and master it, you gain 'General Ranged Aiming'. This is obviously supposed to affect all ranged combat aiming. I mention this, because this line of thought I think is what would help minimize the biggest grief to me in the game. The entire defense stacking concept is horrible and lends to allow those that just like to simply terrorize people the ability to make everyone elses lives impossible. Somehow I don't think the 'Vision' was intended to include one person being capable of repeatedly, and with virtually no skill, being capable of taking down 10 people with combat masteries back to back. Why not set it where 'Melee Defense' becomes something like 'Unarmed Melee Defense' for brawler and TKM's and 'Pistoleer Melee Defense' for the Gunfighter profession and so on. I see nothing wrong with someone mastering Pistoleer and then mastering Teras Kasi, this gives that player an edge in both hand to hand and ranged combat. It perfectly makes sense. Any well trained soldier throughout history goes this route provided ranged combat was available at that point in history because it focuses on the 'Boyscout Theory' (always be prepared) but at the same time it completely eliminates people stacking 150+ melee and ranged defense, both ranged and melee mitigation mods and the obvious boost in special resists such as defense vs. dizzy and kd, self buffing (powerboost), etc., but it also fits the one idea which is the fact that if you defend yourself in hand to hand and have high melee defense skill earned while wielding a sword or being bare-fisted, then holding a 20 pound flame thrower with the end on fire would definately alter your balance and control in that style of melee defense which means you would require specialized melee defense while wielding that weapon. In a real life situation it might give you a small bonus to your alertness to incoming attacks but your ability to dodge and move would be considerably lower since your training in that area is not as intense.
Why not just add better bio-engineered clothing or droppable very rare equipment (that's my personal favorite) to grant bonuses to those mods like any other MMORPG? It would not only help get people into dungeons and go on raids and/or group but it would also boost the economy in game (as it stands now it's stagnating and has no real variety with exception to qualities which is only going to lean to 2-3 people on each server that have amassed huge chunks of the finest resources ever found) and would easily help balance people's choices in what's best. Should I wear that full composite with tons of resists or should I wear these pants that give +30 to all special defenses vs. XXX and shirt with +40 General Melee Defense and my +30 General Ranged Defense hat? These items break down, why not use that feature to it's fullest. Those people will eventually lose those items to wear and tear and it would help pronounce more skill in the game instead of basically macro killing people since you've become virtually untouchable when buffed and using that template?
1) What do you think the strengths of professions mix and match are?
The total ability for you to make whatever character you want. This is god for everyone: The roleplayer who wants to make a gay Trandoshan Image Designer wo can then drop you with the Teras Kasi Limp Wrist from Hell, the player who doesn't want to do the smae thing all the time (I'll admit to forcing people into a niche when I played EQ. "Dude, you're a cleric. Stop trying to hit the mob and HEAL!"), and the one who wants to make the best character possible.
The strength of stacking (which is something I don't htink should be done away with completely, just revamped) is that it allows you to mak eyour character really good at one thing.
The way the skills are set up so that you can be excellent in only one or two facets of a profession is very good. This is as it is IRL. Three doctors can be just as good as the other, but one is a brain surgeon, one is a plastic surgeon, and one is (God knows why) a proctologist.
2) What do you think the weaknesses of professions mix and match are?
The weakness of stacking is htat it makes (under the current system) some people too good. While the strength of stacking I mentioned above is a good thing, it should be that the professions are closely related. The current pistol stacking with BH/Smuggler/Pistoleer is unbalancing, to say the least.
Certain professions should be complimentary, yes, and have some overlapping benefits, but the thinking on some of the overlaps is confusing. Smuggler/Pistoleer is one I will use as an example (I can already hear the Smugglers screaming). Smuggling isn't something that you're supposed to fight about. In fact, if you're fighting a lot, you're a bad smuggler (you're getting caught too much, and as you get caught more the authorities are automatically more suspicious of you and you get caught more again, etc, etc). Han Solo wasn't amazing with the pistol (he did miss quite often, if you remember). He did however use his pistol in ways that got him out of trouble. Using that example, keep the Pistol specials, but lose the bonuses.
3) How do you think we should maintain hte unique skillset flavor the game is built on?
Keep the skills just how they are now. Just tweak bonuses and stacking a bit. It is good that you can just focus on a certain aspect of a profession, and how it works well with others. Just tweak out the interactions of skill sets so that a combination can give you unique options without being overly powerful.
4) What are some neat combination that would be good for the game?
I'm assuming you want new ideas. I'd say a pure soldier. Not a Squad Leader, nota Commando. Not even a new profession, but some bonuses between Unarmed and Carbineer that work well together to make this character concept a good one.
Perhaps give some combat bonuses through some non-combat classes. A Dancer/TKA would be complimentary as far as balance, movement, etc. goes.
5) Anything else you want to say on this topic?
Nope, I'm done.
mld0806 wrote:
Han Solo wasn't amazing with the pistol (he did miss quite often, if you remember). He did however use his pistol in ways that got him out of trouble. Using that example, keep the Pistol specials, but lose the bonuses.
I agree 100% with Milgram's idea. Its simple, it still rewards people that combine combat professions, but makes it where there defences aren't godly high.
Milgram 5 stars for you. 
here is wall you have to do to stop the uber templets... and still let people pick what ever they want with out having to get all 4 tree's... put a hard cap on skills at what ever master proff has the most so master 1hand sword dodge 80 lets say so no one can go above 80 with out skill plates and tape's but if you a pistoleer with lets say master gets 75 dodge then they can get part of fencer to top that off... stops all the deffence stacking and if some one wants 1 or 2 lines of 1 perfession thats ok but only hard cap like dodge/counterattack/block
rang deff and mal deff help and all but dont make you unkilll able like dodge/counterattack/block
The skills system allows a player to pick up skills from here or there, which is a strength of the system. This is also a weakness because players can find unbalanced mixes to gain an advantage over other players and the game.
The current tree system is too simplified, and does not allow for enough differences to allow for a really diverse player base where the characters will feel unique enough. To counteract this, it needs to be overhauled to allow multi-tree unlocks of skills and such...
i.e.
box a alone unlocks skill a
box b alone unlocks skill b
box a and b in combination unlocks skills a, b AND c
I am supposed to be working right now...
*looks around for boss*
...so I will have to get back to this question later. However, I do favor the current system as opposed to a class-based system - i never liked those systems because I think they lack imagination.
-Ratos
(Marine,Doctor,etc) Cause everyone can harvest meat on a dead animal, kill a creature small creature with bare fist (i said small) , shoot with a gun (even if you don't hit often), heal yourself etc(darnit), fly a spaceship, craft explosive,
What do you think the strengths of proffesion Mix and Match are?
The ablility to craft or create a chracter as envisioned by the player is the greatest strength here. I want a person who builds droids and can swing a Powerhammer OK! Here in SWG it can be done. Variety is the spice of life and the system allows for that...it keeps the players coming back to thier beloved characters as well if their proffesion choice becomes stale....becuase it allows them to switch it up as they see fit.
What do you think the weaknesses of proffesion Mix and Match are?
Because the proffesions are not currently balanced there are powerful game abilities that can be purchased with a little mixing and matching. These poweful abilities come at a small price in regards to thier inherint power. The ability to exploit these cracks in the system and use them to better yourself while hurting the rest of your MMO population is the weakness in the system.
How do you think we should maintain the unique skillset flavor the game is built on?
By putting the most powerful skills and abilities and certifications in the Master Boxes. A Master as we have seen has to pick up skill branches he/she may never even use, but it is the price you pay for Mastery of a proffesion. Obviosly you want there to be an incentive to dabble in every proffesion, but a Master Smuggler should be able to outshoot a Rogue in his own Dirty Fighting Branch. The incentives for Mastery do not have to lie only in unique abilities and skills....Certifications for the best items in the game should be in the Master Boxes ( this would give you thespecific roles you talked of in a classic MMO if you gave certainproffesiondefiningequipment only accessable to Masters).The option to gain further skills and further specialize should also be the bonus for becoming a Master. It seems simple..spend more points....become more powerful in your chosen field.
What are some neat combinations that would be neat for the game?
Crowd Control (NPC and PC). This role is non existant and I see it as a combo of Ranger/CHfor Creatures, and as a combo of CM/Smuggler for NPC/PCs
Prowler/Rogue. This role has some PvP possibilities and is non existant as well...I see it as a combo of Ranger/Smuggler or as a Basic Proffesion that is another avenue to BH instead of Scout.
Anything else you want to say on this subject?
Just to reiterate that Master Boxs should really mean something in terms of skill and power in this sort of MMO system. At present they are a hinderance and the incentive to achive them is not there. That is why we have less of a classic MMO roles system and instead have a more watered down enviornment of dabblers.