Development Cycle Archive

Thread: Test Center Update Notes Mar 5, 2004

RaydonRout
Sun Mar 07, 2004 7:12 pm
#157

Commodities Market/Vendors: Fix to no longer allow people to sell bags that are not empty on vendors.

I have to echo what everyone else is saying here. This seems a quite ridiculous change that will only make the role of a merchant far more difficult. This should never reach the live servers, it is a very bad way of solving a very minor issue. I for one have never been misled as to a bags contents. This change should only be made when items can be placed on a vendor with the option to have only a specified person able to collect them.
DarkFloyd
Sun Mar 07, 2004 8:15 pm
#158

Well, I'll just say this about the issue having to do with selling bags of equipment. SOE has once again done half of their job. This is good thinking to prevent lousy, unhonestplayers from ripping people off, but they should have thought about its uses in the game currently and how they could fix this problem BEFORE putting the kabosh on selling bags of stuff. They need to realize that if they are revamping stuff, they need to get out with the old and in with the new ALL IN ONE STEP. Otherwise it only makes people impatient and/or upset. This bag issue is not a huge problem as far as I am aware, and they should have waited to fix the system before breaking it.



PNokkata- Evil Wookiee Padawan/ TKM/ Fencer
Chameleo- Master Doctor/ Swordsman
IGR (Imperial Galactic Reserves)- Sin City Too, Dantooine
Can I be Fingernail?
Rufkin
Sun Mar 07, 2004 9:16 pm
#159





aibo220 Wrote:


Oh, thats another bug... Yellow dots turn to red? Extremely annoying.






yeah, that was obviously a quick fix gone wrong. I think they intended it to stop the creatures from aggroing speeder riders and knocking them off their bikes. It happened several times on places like Endor...


Now we get to be surprised. Is a rancor, or a purbole. Wait it hasn't loaded yet...
aibo220
Mon Mar 08, 2004 1:10 am
#160

Tailors coloring the item is fine too.


I'm just going by how it was done on UO.


Earlier I was thinking it would be neat if the Architect could paint and install carpet in the homes. Them generics are so plain inside, and the white walls with the ctrl-l, and then the lamps... too much!





"What a piece of 5|-|17 I returned to." [ Tiphini ]
/cough "Damn book." /cough

Leshyn
Mon Mar 08, 2004 2:15 am
#161



Mohr wrote:


Kevm wrote:


Do you have any idea the database capacity that would be needed if there weren't limits placed on storage? I'm against not being able to sell loaded bags on my own vendors, but there are needs to limit the amount of things everyone can horde.

This wasn't addressed to me but lets put some math to this....and assumptions of course which might be wrong but its an approximation anyway right?

300,000 Registered Users....lets assume 10,000 active accounts on a given galaxy. Each item is described by a set of properties that are all typically numeric. Lets say each "item" has a max of 50 numeric properties, an ID to a picture, database ID, OwnerID, LocationOwner & Coords (if in a house), item name (50 characters maybe...never checked this). So estimating high...each item we work with is maybe 500bytes. Lets say an "average" user might have 500 items....a mega-crafter might have 5000 items? So lets assume an average of 1000 items per active account. So average item storage in database is going to be 1000 * 500bytes = 500KBytes. OK...so 10,000 users * 500Kbytes = 5Gbytes per Galaxy for item storage. So...even if I'm off in any of the above by a factor of 10 we are still talking 50Gbyte and I would hazard to say most of us have a hard drive in our personal computers that are at least this size.

I don't know what SOE is using in their server clusters but 5Gbytes is not "BIG" as far as commercial databases go. Please feel free to comment or point out where I might be mis-estimating.

I realize vendors and factories could throw a wrench in some of my numbers but having been a crafter (WS) for a while I can't imagine I ever had over 5000 items including all my houses, vendors, factory inventories, etc. I also think most "casual" non-crafters have a lot less than this (even if they kept everything they ever touched).






You forgot the fact that item names are probably unicode. Also, items probably a creator name (this is redundant, but for performance reasons and since accounts may be deleted I'd venture they store the creator name with each item instead of having a relation between item and character, which would be at least 2*4 bytes for the bridging table anyways), also in unicode. In fact, I think it would be wise to stay fairly far from third normal form in a MMORPG database, just to get extremely quick lookup. Insert and update times are probably less of an issue than selection, so some redundancy is probably in there, too. There is also the issue of relations between item and owner tables, links between items and where they are stored, and so on. It is even possible that 64 bit integers are used for id:s and serial numbers, that makes 8 bytes per id. Without making a more elaborate calculation, I'd guess each item takes at least 1k of space.

But space is probably not really an issue in itself. It's the throughput of all operations done on the fairly massive amounts of data that is the problem. This is not your everyday large corporate web site database with few inserts and perhaps a couple of hundred thousands of lookups per day. Each time somebody opens a bazaar window a select is done on all objects and calculations on time-left-on-sale is done. There's probably a join on bids to see who is the highest bidder, since some items on the bazaar are on auction. Lookups and updates are also constantly made when characters move around. Scheduled jobs do selects and updates on all objects at tick intervals. Object and character locations informations is updated on every shuttle trip and every server boundary crossing. XP gain is stored for every character as soon as it happens. At the same time, weapons dacay, their damage ranges are recalculated and stored. The list goes on, I'm sure, and all the time these things are done in transactions, sanity checks are made and things are logged. Disk activity is probably along the lines of that in a major NNTP hub that carries all newsgroups -- the disks are never ever idle.



In-game name: Leshyn
Vendor at -1331 -2988, 650 meters from Bestine Starport, Tatooine, Flurry.
mib666
Mon Mar 08, 2004 5:07 am
#162

Wookie armour yippee, completed marauder queats last night and recieved a full set. With regards to backpacks, this has got to be the best thing you guys have done so far, this will remove most of the vendor lag as the database wont have to keep refreshing through all the crap people horde using the backpack bug.



__o o__ o__ o__
_ \ ,_ _. / _ _.>/ _ _. / _
(_)/ (_) (_) \(_) (_) \(_) (_) \(_)
Koradin
Mon Mar 08, 2004 5:41 am
#163







Rogue_5 wrote:






Commodities Market/Vendors: Added error messages for attempting to sell items in trade windows, non-empty bags, and un-tradeable items like goggles and light sabres.




Does this change effect locked containers? if it does it mean the only way to pass the container to a smuggler would be drop it in a house and then give the smuggler admin rights. And i doubt very much people would give smugglers full access to the contents of thier house.





In regards to crafters selling package deals/bulk orders. How about allowing crafters to create a container that can only be used to store relivant items in it, such asarmour container, weapon container, med containerand so on. These containers would then be able to be sold on player owned vendors only. There could be several sizes of containers from novice of the skill up to master.



TougeFreak
Mon Mar 08, 2004 5:48 am
#164

cool






TF armor division .*Naboo/Kaadara 5181 5725*-*NEW Coronet Branch -353 -5547*

now making 67% base 80% special low ham composite. 47% stun PSG slice them up to 63%!
RIS certified . 38% stun 65% base composite with 295ham helmet now in stock

The Dark Jedi Knight AS soon to be Guardian.
Overdwarf
Mon Mar 08, 2004 8:52 am
#165

One other point is that this wookie looks like crap.

It has 25 % Kinetic and 15% rest

And it has no helm only bracers, chest and pants !
SiliconSmiley
Mon Mar 08, 2004 9:29 am
#166

No helm? Bah. The helm is what we needed the most.


Is the first mission of the quest still broken and not rewarding the helm?


Can you wear a smock over the armor?


Can you wear other clothes with the armor?


Never had armor before.


Ewrrl







Dr. Ewrrl - Drier than Dood's Martinis -
"Oh, my, god. Illien, look at Ewrrl's butt." Vespasian

SiliconSmiley
Mon Mar 08, 2004 9:37 am
#167

Commodities Market/Vendors: Fix to no longer allow people to sell bags that are not empty on vendors.

What what what?!?!?!?! Why? So now in addition to the craptasticly lame vendor interface, their functionality is also being nerfed? There's already not enough functionality for dealing with large numbers of items. No command to buy multiple items, no command to sell multiple items at the same price and now their removing the abilty to sell custom orders with multiple items in one pack?


Take this idea back to concept please. It is excessively limiting to Merchants and our customers.


Ewrrl



Dr. Ewrrl - Drier than Dood's Martinis -
"Oh, my, god. Illien, look at Ewrrl's butt." Vespasian

yethek76
Mon Mar 08, 2004 9:51 am
#168

Good stuff! But why are you giving wookiee's human looking armor? Wouldn't it fit better to model some bamboo looking armor or something


Yethek, Sheriff of Corsair Isle


Warrior of Kashyyyk



Long Live the Republic!
Leshyn
Mon Mar 08, 2004 1:18 pm
#169



PlayeroftheDay wrote:


Rogue_5 wrote:
Corellian Corvette: Fixed the case where party members would sometimes end up at 0,0,0 on the first transport after a server restart.


Well SE debaters there you go, due to this information it is obvious that the Space Expansion will have an active Z axis.





The Z axis is already "active" in the game. And it's existence is well known, since developers tend to give coordinates in the x,z,y (yep, not a typo) format.

--Leshyn



In-game name: Leshyn
Vendor at -1331 -2988, 650 meters from Bestine Starport, Tatooine, Flurry.
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