Development Cycle Archive
Thread: IC4: Path of the Jedi
ScuzzFuddly
Thu Aug 05, 2004 11:12 pm
#1561
I would like to see a trainer that would be like a Jedi Master that would guide the padewan through their quests. I think this would be very important for the feel of star wars. Likewise, have Dark Jedi Trainers performing the sameas well perhaps. 
decoy33333
Sat Aug 07, 2004 8:16 pm
#1562
I'm haven't gotten around to reading all of the quest ideas so I apologize if it has been said. Say you are on the lightside, an NPC would tell you to find and talk to someone. This NPC would be traitorous and the person who you visit would attack you. I think that would be a cool idea but that is just my opinion. Rate my post to let me know how it sounds.
Kodamasan
Sat Aug 07, 2004 11:41 pm
#1563
Hello,
There is one thing that we haven't seen in the Jedi population or at least nothing that has been openly said as been done:
The Master and Apprentice relationship
What would be very neat to seen done is Jedi actually comming together and actually playing together and experiencing the game together making the SWG universe a lot more vivid on the whole.This alsomight end a list of several roleplaying problems that seem to annoy most people with the current status of Jedi; those being Jedi demonstrations in public areas as well as Jedi camping major spawn areas.
Basically what the idea is that the two Jedi characters would form a union, much similar to marriage in the game. The character who is to be the Master would propose mentorship to the Apprentice and the Apprentice would have to accept. The union could also be destroyed but there would be a delay period of one day so as to discourage one-night-stand relationships.
The advantages of this Union would be that when the Jedi are playing within a certain distance they would get an XP bonus, Anywhere between 5%-10%. This would naturally be an immediate incentive for Jedi to pair up and begin playing together.
What would be dangerous in this union would be the XP death penalty and visibility. When a Master or his Apprentice is to die, the other Jedi would also feel some or all of the XP death penalty as well as sharing all or some of the visibility that their partner has acquired. This would prevent such power grinding unions of two Jedi pairing up for the XP advantage and then proceeding onto the grind. The Jedi would naturally think of his partner in terms of visibility and death and would natrually be wary as to how his partner is accumulating XP and death penalties. Essentially, the careless Jedi would be hit twice as hard for their carelessness and would be rewarded for actually roleplaying. Powergrinders who aren't capable of actually roleplaying would naturally not progress as fast as those who actually are.
Some basic rules andideasfor this system would be:
-There can only be two per union, as per Jedi tradition and to prevent many lesser Jedi pairing up with a stronger "XP Cow" Jedi
-Force Regeneration between the two Jediwould be somewhat higher when they are within a certain distance, i.e. 100-200m
-Both Jedi would appear on the boards when the the visibility of either Jedi reaches the sufficient level
-Those in the Apprentice part of the Relationship could recieve XP bonuses (Much like Discounts) when being trained by their Master so that there would be reasons to change the Union once the Padawan feels he has learnt all he has to learn from his Master.
Thankyou for any attention this recieves.
Kodama
Lunitarri
Sun Aug 08, 2004 12:17 pm
#1564
I like the idea of being able to play a Jedi at some point, but I personally do not actively seek to become one. I think the proposed path with Pub 10 is much better than the hologrinding that was going on before, however, I have a concern that others I have spoken to share.
What we do not want to see is an army of Jedi running around dominating everything in the game from static spawn sites to PvP. I understand the Devs position to make the game enjoyable by the largest audience, but too many Jedi would be a very bad thing. You may as well have made the time line during the Sith Wars or something rather than the current setting.
One way to help limit the amount of Jedi would be to make the profession of Jedi so demanding that only those with unsurmountable patience would be able to see it through to the end. If it is made too easy, then nearly everyone will be Jedi.
I don't have all the answers, but many players that post on these forums have great ideas. But I strongly feel that if the game becomes dominated by Jedi players it will become most unenjoyable and loose the original idea for which the game was created.
Some sort of population control would be in order I believe. Perhaps limit the number of Jedi per server based on total server population?
Basically what I am trying to say is that I know and understand Jedi are going to be a part of the game. It is the Holy Grail that most are trying to achieve, I'm sure. But keep a leash on them please. It would be too easy for the Jedi class to destroy the game for the average Joe, like myself, that plays casually.
Cnotiog
Mon Aug 09, 2004 5:40 am
#1565
I think that vellas made some very good points in his post ages ago. And I agree that the path to force sensitivity must be a solo and personal path and all training thereafter. In my opinion if combat missions are made so difficult that you need a large group to complete them it will ruin the path. Therefore maybe some instanced solo missions could be put into the training.
Also during jedi training I feel that a large bulk of the training should be taking place in an obscure area away from large cities with the jedi maybe wandering into cities e.t.c to perform certain required tasks, as a jedi in training being able to continuously walk into a city and hack down a load of stormtroopers dosent go well with the timeline; and if a jedi does something like this there should be consequences.
Also it would be very nice to have some kind of player jedi knight-padwan relationship where a player has to take on a padwan and they have to do missions together to advance further. But I can see there being problems with a system like this but it would be very nice if it worked...
Also during jedi training I feel that a large bulk of the training should be taking place in an obscure area away from large cities with the jedi maybe wandering into cities e.t.c to perform certain required tasks, as a jedi in training being able to continuously walk into a city and hack down a load of stormtroopers dosent go well with the timeline; and if a jedi does something like this there should be consequences.
Also it would be very nice to have some kind of player jedi knight-padwan relationship where a player has to take on a padwan and they have to do missions together to advance further. But I can see there being problems with a system like this but it would be very nice if it worked...
BigRig
Mon Aug 09, 2004 1:33 pm
#1566
I don't get what's going on here.
First off, is my main character supposed to turn into a jedi and then I get a new slot to do something else with?
Or is he going to do something that opens up a jedi slot?
Jedi's usually start down the jedi path as little brats, not industry moguls, elephant hunters,and businessmen, right?
As far as what my main character has to do to become a jedi, I don't even care, but if he's going to have something to do with it I'd prefer he did something factional and that led him either to the dark or light.
I think the best thing to do is just give everybody the slot with a minimum of fuss and focus the content on what they do with that slot though.
What I DO think will be fun is quests for jedi padawans learning to be better jedi and working with other jedi (which is what a lot of folks here seem to be talking about).
Seeing how tough they made them I think it's important to either keep 'em separated from the regular guys (jedi-vs-jedi only) or make them not so tough. Actually making them weaker than a master carbinerwould help "balance" things a lot and non-jedipeople wouldn't hate 'em so much I bet heh.
All the "jedi should be rare" junk I hear sounds like "thank you sir may I have another" talk to me. Being hunted bygoon squadsand staying incognito as part of some Jedi underground (I guess light an dark sides would be part of that since Vader hates 'em all),can easily be part of the whole fun, instead of a punishment for everybody.
Really I just want to have some star wars fun, so I hopethis ends up asfun, for regular peopleand not some goony MMOG badge of honor thing that'll remind me of people who can't introduce themselves without telling me about their 60th level character in EQ.
Dargoth69
Mon Aug 09, 2004 8:11 pm
#1567
Well, i think the Jedi need a REAL reason to hide and not to demonstrate their Force Powers on the most populated places. For example, if a Jedi is acting with force (showing saber, use of any Force) in big cites within a specified time a troop of special (unbeatable) Troops send by Lord Vader would appear and kill him if he's still there.
This would Jedi give a real reason to get hidden and to act like a real Jedi in this Storyline.
DiverBuoy
Thu Aug 12, 2004 1:39 pm
#1568
Please make it so that using 50 players in a guild a player can't do the knight quests 14/14 in a single day. To insure this some (a few not all) quests should be fixed time quests insuring the road to jedi is difficult and hard and cannot be shortcutted. For example gather X per day of X for a period of 14 days - could be done concurrently with another quest of course .. but would insure that a 14 day period is inserted into the leveling. If there were 100 quests to novice (or whatever) 5% or 10% should be time quests with at least one UBER time quest - of 14 or 30 days in length.
Draknel
Mon Aug 16, 2004 1:35 pm
#1569
Why is it that everyone wants to guess how many Jedi there are or should be. It seems there is alot of discussion on how difficult or not difficult a Jedi should be to get and play. First of all why don't the devs simply come up with a way to count the number of potential jedi. I know some people never plan on being Jedi and others are just to the point of quitting if they can't play a jedi so why not come up with some way to count how many Jedi there might be per server.
There are almost 20 servers with 250,000 players spread between them, how many Jedi are we looking at per server, also how many will be on at different times during the day. He's some interesting numbers to think of: ~250,000 in the game with ~20 servers which means 12500 per server if the distribution is equal. Now at any given time if 50% are Jedi that only leaves 6000 Jedi on a server then figure that at most half of them may be playing at one time which leaves you with 3000 across 10 planets. Now if you figure on this set of numbers youmay have 300 Jedi on an entire planet. This would be of varying levels so the 300 would be FS to Master. 300 seems like alot but if you increase imperial prescence on planets so that they are hunted its really not that many at all especially if you start to have NPC enemies. Remember this 300 per planet is assuming 50 % of people will want to be jedi and that is all. I am sure some people will not like Jedi and will want to go to other professions and still others will want to hunt jedi which will add for a new aspect to the game.
I think the true challenge is making progression difficult not getting to be FS.So why not limit the progression of the Jedi rather than the progression on how to get to Jedi. I personally would only want to be able to be a knight I am not interested in being a master. And eventually I might like to be a dark jedi hunting the good ones. I have played the RPG for a couple of years and there isn't any type of limitation on being a jedi in it. Remember just because the jedi knights were destroyed does not stop the FS people from existing and learning of their heritage. Who is to say there aren't hundreds or even thousands of people with lightsabers running around, it would still take some skill to use and maintain and this would have to be found and learned.
The
baw
Mon Aug 16, 2004 5:04 pm
#1570
I saw a really excellent idea on the boards one day, but I've been unable to find the original post. If you're the original poster, don't fret, I'm not trying to take credit for your idea, but it is a good one. I also apologize if it has been mentioned already in this thread.
Jedi should be paired up as Master/Apprentice teams. They gain slight bonuses for hunting together, crafting lightsabers, etc. and do not gain visibility from one another.This would also provide a system in which Jedi could advance in the FRS ranking without them having to kill anything or anyone. As the younger Jedi advances, the Master would gain FRS up until the Apprentice becomes a Knight. Then both would be free to take on a new Apprentice. This would be incentive for Jedi to RP, creating an immersive environment for Jedi and non-Jedi players. It would also serve to give new Jedi a leg up.
Yoda had trained hundreds of Jedi, and he was, as a result, highly ranked, so to speak. This system would allow for alow-combat, more lightJedi-like FRS, if that were the player's choice.
Issues with Bounty Hunter missions and TEF's would have to be resolved, as it would be much more difficult to kill 2 Jedi than to kill one, and if FRS was incorporated, the numbers would have to be carefully balanced. Aside from that, I think I conveyed the general idea in the original post, and I think it is a quite good one.
LordReaver
Tue Aug 17, 2004 2:24 am
#1571
got my vote for that 
...but i still want a jedi for my true vet char
...but i still want a jedi for my true vet char
TalKatarn
Tue Aug 24, 2004 6:35 pm
#1572
Trying ever place in hopes you'll see this because too many people including me want improvement!
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FRS v2 Ranking and Levels:
As a jedi gains FRS points, they gain Levels, such that someone can gauge their progress up the virtual ladder. This will be used as a relative gauge of seniority based on pvp experience, but not necessarily directly tied to "Rank". These levels are never revoked and work similar to how faction items work - i.e. you use points to gain your level, or you use them on bonuses (see below). They are gained based on the number of Force points you gain, i.e. L2 = 10000 FRS points, L3 = 25000, etc.
"Rank" will signify achievement through either a duel (dark) or voting (light) and require a certain "Level" to qualify. Alternate mechanisms for achieving Rank may be there in absence of participants (i.e. initially tie it to levels until there are sufficient ppl to duel/vote).
"Rank" Requirements per week:
Every week, certain ranks are required to perform certain tasks, which could be x number of npc quests of a certain type, pvp of a certain jedi rank of the opposing faction, certain number of apprentice points per week (i.e. training a padawan is required at certain ranks), etc.
"Rank" can be lost if:
1> A Jedi is repeatedly killed in a span of time for that Rank. i.e. An Advisor is allowed 2 Deaths in a week, and a Consular is allowed 1 death in 2 weeks.
2> A Jedi loses a vote or duel for their Rank.
3> A Jedi does not complete their Rank Requirements for the week.
With a "Rank", you gain specific bonuses that stack. For example, when you gain Sentinel (R2), you get all of knight + sentinel.
(Sorry if this is wrong order - don't know the proper list)
Jedi Knight:
+5 LS/Jedi Toughness, +250 FP, +5 to Power/Healing Efficiency? (D/L), +250 jedi_private_difficulty
+5 LS/Jedi Toughness, +250 FP, +5 to Power/Healing Efficiency? (D/L), +250 jedi_private_difficulty
Jedi Sentinel:
+5 SP, +5 LS/Jedi Toughness, +250 FP, +5 Force Regen, +5 to Power/Healing Efficiency? (D/L),+250 jedi_private_difficulty
+5 SP, +5 LS/Jedi Toughness, +250 FP, +5 Force Regen, +5 to Power/Healing Efficiency? (D/L),+250 jedi_private_difficulty
Jedi Advisor:
+5 SP, +5 LS/Jedi Toughness, +500 FP, +5 Force Regen, +5 to Power/Healing Efficiency? (D/L),+250 jedi_private_difficulty
+5 SP, +5 LS/Jedi Toughness, +500 FP, +5 Force Regen, +5 to Power/Healing Efficiency? (D/L),+250 jedi_private_difficulty
Jedi Oppressor:
+10 SP, +5 LS/Jedi Toughness, +250 FP, +5 Force Regen, +5 to Power/Healing Efficiency (D/L),+250 jedi_private_difficulty
+10 SP, +5 LS/Jedi Toughness, +250 FP, +5 Force Regen, +5 to Power/Healing Efficiency (D/L),+250 jedi_private_difficulty
Jedi Guardian:
+10 SP, Add'l Special Attack, +5 LS/Jedi Toughness, +500 FP, +5 Force Regen, +5 to All Efficiency? (D/L), +500
+10 SP, Add'l Special Attack, +5 LS/Jedi Toughness, +500 FP, +5 Force Regen, +5 to All Efficiency? (D/L), +500
jedi_private_difficulty
Jedi Advocate:
+5 SP, +5 LS/Jedi Toughness, +250 FP, +5 Force Regen, +10 to Power/Healing Efficiency? (D/L), +250 jedi_private_difficulty
+5 SP, +5 LS/Jedi Toughness, +250 FP, +5 Force Regen, +10 to Power/Healing Efficiency? (D/L), +250 jedi_private_difficulty
Jedi Consular:
+5 SP, +5 LS/Jedi Toughness, +250 FP, +5 Force Regen, +10 to Power/Healing Efficiency? (D/L), +250 jedi_private_difficulty
+5 SP, +5 LS/Jedi Toughness, +250 FP, +5 Force Regen, +10 to Power/Healing Efficiency? (D/L), +250 jedi_private_difficulty
Jedi Master:
+1 SP, Add'l Special Attack, +5 LS/Jedi Toughness, +1000 FP, +5 Force Regen, +25 to All Efficiency? (D/L), +500 jedi_private_difficulty
+1 SP, Add'l Special Attack, +5 LS/Jedi Toughness, +1000 FP, +5 Force Regen, +25 to All Efficiency? (D/L), +500 jedi_private_difficulty
Where:
1> Power/Healing/All Efficiency is a percentage mod that will decrease the amount of force required to use a power. e.g. At Guardian,
1> Power/Healing/All Efficiency is a percentage mod that will decrease the amount of force required to use a power. e.g. At Guardian,
25% less, and at Master, 50% less force required per special.
2> +SP is only used for jedi skills. At Master, you get 2 more lines + 1SP for Master box, and Guardian 1 more line (20SP).
3> An additional special attack/skill is given at Guardian and Master as a bonus for that Rank.
So, a L2 in FRS may not equal a Rank of Sentinel, esp if there are a bunch of L2's. It gets balanced via the original idea.
FRS v2 Special Benefits:
The FRS Point system is used as a bank to "purchase" special skills/features as you gain levels. There must be a very diverse and high number of these so that people can have diversity of gameplay, but some like Replenish, most people will get so they should be more expensive. SOMEExamples (MANY more possibilities here - these are examples):
Force Replenish I/II/III:
Req. Powers or Heal
At Replenish I, 1500 force points with a timer of 1 hr. 10000 FRS pts
At Replenish II, 3000 force points with a timer of 1 hr. 25000 FRS pts
At Replenish III, 4500 force points with a timer of 1 hr. 50000 FRS pts
At Replenish I, 1500 force points with a timer of 1 hr. 10000 FRS pts
At Replenish II, 3000 force points with a timer of 1 hr. 25000 FRS pts
At Replenish III, 4500 force points with a timer of 1 hr. 50000 FRS pts
Force Reflect I/II/III:
Req. Defence or Enhancer
Req. Defence or Enhancer
At I, 100% of all force attacks are reflected back for 5 attacks - 15% change of fail. 25000 FRS pts
At II, 100% of all force attacks are reflected back for 10 attacks - 10% change of fail. 50000 FRS pts
At III, 100% of all force attacks are reflected back for 15 attacks - 5% change of fail. 100000 FRS pts
At II, 100% of all force attacks are reflected back for 10 attacks - 10% change of fail. 50000 FRS pts
At III, 100% of all force attacks are reflected back for 15 attacks - 5% change of fail. 100000 FRS pts
Force Siphon I/II/III:
Req. Enhancer or Powers
At I, 25% of incoming force attacks are converted to your force bar for 5m - 30m timer. 15000 FRS.
At II, 35% of incoming force attacks are converted to your force bar for 5m - 30m timer. 35000 FRS.
At III, 50% of incoming force attacks are converted to your force bar for 5m - 30m timer. 55000 FRS.
Req. Enhancer or Powers
At I, 25% of incoming force attacks are converted to your force bar for 5m - 30m timer. 15000 FRS.
At II, 35% of incoming force attacks are converted to your force bar for 5m - 30m timer. 35000 FRS.
At III, 50% of incoming force attacks are converted to your force bar for 5m - 30m timer. 55000 FRS.
Force Vision:
Determine if a BH is coming for you, and how close he is. Timer of 30m. 25000 FRS pts.
Determine if a BH is coming for you, and how close he is. Timer of 30m. 25000 FRS pts.
Also, having a particular skill may have pre-requisities and exclusions. For example, If you have Replenish, you can't get get Siphon (and vice versa).
---
As an aside for those that are non-jedi, PVP Rank/Bonus system should also be implemented based on the Pvp Rank w/ Titles and a pvp points pool with non-force bonuses like HAM Bonuses (either just Health or Action or Mind, or maybe a combined), Will/Focus/Strength/Stam/Quick/Con Bonuses, Combat Equilibrium, Defensive Acuity I/II/II, Terrain Negotiation I/II/III, Melee Def I/II/III, and other mods as it pertains to the current system or the post combat balance.
These should be modeled on some of the food bonuses but bigger and more complex gains, with SOME on a timer and others not. Like one bonus could be HAM I/II/III +250/+400/+600 as a all the time bonus, and there could be a different purchasable benefit like a one time MIND +500/+1000/+1500 on a timer. They also would have exclusions and pre-requisites to prevent a stacking imbalance. There should be a very large and diverse set of these so that people can have huge diversity of gameplay. This would obviously be tied into the combat rebalance and HAM changes.
Comments?
Costello
Tue Aug 24, 2004 8:09 pm
#1573
69 pages of ideas, wonder if anyone will read this idea. I dont know if this has been brought up but I figure all Jedi quests should be done Solo and unbuffed. Other than his trusty droid who did Luke take with him to see Yoda, that would be a no one. And why unbuffed what basis do I have for that. Well simply put what test is their for a jedi canditate, his tactical ability and bravery if he is supper buffed and cant be hurt. Or the quests are set at the difficulty so onlya full buffed jedi trainnie with a doctor as his ally can complete them which will lead to poor people who dont know a doctorusing the plannetary chat to track down doctors for buffs. The Jedi quests should be like Luke walking into the cave, your buffs you will not need them.I dont know why SWG's turned into an experience only playable buffed but I sure hope that the Dev team dont know start encouraging having to be buffed to do anything.