Development Cycle Archive
Thread: Crafting Experimentation Changes... resolution.
JustG wrote:
End of the story first.
We are going to revert the Experimentation changes. They are baked into P7, which goes out tomorrow morning, but we will take them out with a hotfix Wednesday morning.
I consider this a real bad idea as someone might well find and exploit something you didn't expect (possibly producing a 15 BER medium harvester or something) orthe hotfix won'twork as wellas you think and force aone day rollback.This will damage the already fragile economy and possiblycause a lot of people to loseXP. It would make much more sense and be saferto delay the patch for a day or two to properly take out the crafting changes and update the download you trickled out. Or delay several days and retrickle the patch if you can't fix it before applying it.
I would like to take you through the process so you have a little behind-the-scenes insight into how this has come about.
You should know the history of the desire for this change from our side. We want to balance out the game as best as possible. Sometimes these balances come in the shape of a Nerf. A couple of weeks ago,we called a meeting because there was concern about the way this change would be seen by a majority of our players. The design team successfully argued their point, and we decided to move forward with the change, provided that we put up a post to the players explaining exactly what the changes entail. This post went to the coorespondents at the beginning of last week. After tweaking it with their feedback, it went out to the players on Friday. As we read over the responses, it became clear that the majority of the players were NOT in favor of these types of changes. I wanted to take the weekend to read through and reflect on the communities response. We did. The community does not welcome the experimentation changes.
A few points here. I'm sure the correspondents were very against the change if not outright hostile to it. That should have been your first hint this was a bad change. This issue shouldnever have gotten as far as it did. To be honest we still are not sure whether you were trying the nerf what you said in the document (economy, level crafting)or something else (power of the player base). If it was the former, the document said nothing that would have anyone who has crafted at least to a novice advanced profession could believe would help those two issues. In fact, the changes would make the economy even more overheatedand the chasm between established master with skill tapes and more money and resources than Holo and newbie novice even greater. If the latter, trying to sell a power nerf as something to fix the ecoomy is shady at best and will seriously hurt your reputationwith the player base. I may not have always agreed with Holo, but he'd flat out tell us what was going on in a manner we could understand and debate. And he did it before setting a change in stone as a rule.
As a rule, we are trying to enact changes that are fun to the game. This one was not fun. Publish 7 is staged to go out tomorrow, and the crafting changes are baked into Publish 7. However, we will revert the changes on Wednesday morning (unless something critical comes up as a result of the publish... in which case we will revert them out as soon as possible.)
This is an opportunity for you all to play with the changes for a day, so in case we ever want to go down this road again, you will better understand what it is we want to do.
This is a bad idea, see above. Now, this is the second time you have tried to force this nerf on us. You have given no reason the first time and reasons that have no relation to the problem you are trying to solve the second time. Do us a favor, bring the problem at least before the corrspondents and ask for some input (The real problem, no little white lies). Let them bring it before the playerbase before you decide to spend development time on it. I have seen you and THrecently answer posts with, "the development schedule is packed right now". I wonder if instead of trying to force changes on a system that is far less broken than many other systems to a solve a problem that it is not a part of what you attribute it to, youhad spentthat delevopment time on groups that really needed it.The game might be more fun for more people right now.
By the way, incase you haven't realized it yet. The fact that all players have the highest quality of goods is a result of the broken economy,but not the cause. Nerfing the result angers everybody and takes out none of the causes of the problem, which will then persist. The only money that would have gone out of the economy would be sitting in the already rich accounts of the eldest master crafters. People who be forced to push even more missions and pump even more money into the economy to buy "pre-nerf" equipment. New crafters would still have no chance to break into the economy because the combat players would just exploit the mission system a little worse than they already are to afford the "best" equipment. You need to either slow the faucet (to use Holo's terms) by decreasing high-end mission pay out or making the high-end missions tougher or you need to increase the drains on the economy in terms of decay (very unpopular) or costs (such as shuttle fees).
Thanks for the professional responses to this issue.
Best,
- g
Reldun wrote:
Tunturi wrote:
Whinners win again
You know 10 to 1 the majorty of the people who play this game day inand day out would of excepted the changes. The whinners on these boards only make up a small percentage of the people actually playing this game. You dont hear from the ones who are having fun because of just that, there having fun and dont need to spendall there time in here whinning about every little thing. Sure this gamefor the most parthas some majored flaws in it, but by complaining everytime theDev's try tofix the stuff wont make it any better. If you let the whinnershave there way,they would have it so MasterCrafters would get 100% in all catagories so they could make god weapons/armor.
To me this new patch would of added a little more balance to the game.
Bad thing is the ones that were whinnig the most will probably end up leaving the game anyways from boredom. Boredom appears when you take out the challange from the game. These are the same people who when playing a single player game break out all the cheat codes so they can win easily. It's to bad the Dev's cater to them so much.
Personaly I would of welcomed the new changes, anything to add depth to this game would be welcomed.
Heh whiners? I have been playing as a crafter since launch. I don't think some of you get it. Stats would have been less on on every item that uses multiple line esperimentation across the board.
Supports one of my previous point perfectly. People see a slight drop in stats and scream bloody-murder.
Do you have any idea how many weapons I could have churned out with prepatch stats if this had went live?
This could have been dealt with, although it would have caused more screams (delete those items that are not in use).
At the very least enough to last me into the fall or next winter. How exactly again does that level the playing field between new masters and old masters? Oh wait, it doesn't. Yep, us "whiners" kept a change from happening that would have made any new gear you bought be one of two things, lower overall stats or hellaciously expensive.
So, we still have a boring and thoughtless crafting system. Wonderful.
Clue check bright boy, you can't kill things wihotu armor and weapons and meds and food. Yep us whiners won, which means you get to buy better stuff... cry more noob.
That last comment towards Tunturi negates anything constructive you thought you had.
Heh whiners? I have been playing as a crafter since launch. I don't think some of you get it. Stats would have been less on on every item that uses multiple line esperimentation across the board. Do you have any idea how many weapons I could have churned out with prepatch stats if this had went live? At the very least enough to last me into the fall or next winter. How exactly again does that level the playing field between new masters and old masters? Oh wait, it doesn't. Yep, us "whiners" kept a change from happening that would have made any new gear you bought be one of two things, lower overall stats or hellaciously expensive. Clue check bright boy, you can't kill things wihotu armor and weapons and meds and food. Yep us whiners won, which means you get to buy better stuff... cry more noob.
Bryan1138 wrote:
By the way, incase you haven't realized it yet. The fact that all players have the highest quality of goods is a result of the broken economy,but not the cause.
The reason why every player has the best equipment is because the crafting/resource system is broke. Crafters churn out crates and crates of the top items every single day. Exceptional resources are way too easy to get, and the crafting process is all about dumping points into one experimentation line. That creates identical crafting experiences, unfortunately.
Nerfing the result angers everybody and takes out none of the causes of the problem, which will then persist. The only money that would have gone out of the economy would be sitting in the already rich accounts of the eldest master crafters. People who be forced to push even more missions and pump even more money into the economy to buy "pre-nerf" equipment. New crafters would still have no chance to break into the economy because the combat players would just exploit the mission system a little worse than they already are to afford the "best" equipment. You need to either slow the faucet (to use Holo's terms) by decreasing high-end mission pay out or making the high-end missions tougher or you need to increase the drains on the economy in terms of decay (very unpopular) or costs (such as shuttle fees).
This doesn't mean that you guys gonna give on fixing the economy, right? right?
/bow
My faith in the system is renewed. This was the right thing to do. Intent was not in question...the method and timing were the issue.
JCatano wrote:
Reldun wrote:
Tunturi wrote:
Whinners win again
You know 10 to 1 the majorty of the people who play this game day inand day out would of excepted the changes. The whinners on these boards only make up a small percentage of the people actually playing this game. You dont hear from the ones who are having fun because of just that, there having fun and dont need to spendall there time in here whinning about every little thing. Sure this gamefor the most parthas some majored flaws in it, but by complaining everytime theDev's try tofix the stuff wont make it any better. If you let the whinnershave there way,they would have it so MasterCrafters would get 100% in all catagories so they could make god weapons/armor.
To me this new patch would of added a little more balance to the game.
Bad thing is the ones that were whinnig the most will probably end up leaving the game anyways from boredom. Boredom appears when you take out the challange from the game. These are the same people who when playing a single player game break out all the cheat codes so they can win easily. It's to bad the Dev's cater to them so much.
Personaly I would of welcomed the new changes, anything to add depth to this game would be welcomed.
Heh whiners? I have been playing as a crafter since launch. I don't think some of you get it. Stats would have been less on on every item that uses multiple line esperimentation across the board.
Supports one of my previous point perfectly. People see a slight drop in stats and scream bloody-murder.
Do you have any idea how many weapons I could have churned out with prepatch stats if this had went live?
This could have been dealt with, although it would have caused more screams (delete those items that are not in use).
At the very least enough to last me into the fall or next winter. How exactly again does that level the playing field between new masters and old masters? Oh wait, it doesn't. Yep, us "whiners" kept a change from happening that would have made any new gear you bought be one of two things, lower overall stats or hellaciously expensive.
So, we still have a boring and thoughtless crafting system. Wonderful.
Clue check bright boy, you can't kill things wihotu armor and weapons and meds and food. Yep us whiners won, which means you get to buy better stuff... cry more noob.
That last comment towards Tunturi negates anything constructive you thought you had.