Development Cycle Archive
Thread: I'm out of my cave!
mochloD
Mon Aug 02, 2004 6:58 pm
#144
Shug_Ninx wrote:
current combat system is great and doesn't really need any changes). There are some fundamental changes we want to make to combat, but adding starfightersis also critical to the experience.
I'm ALMOST one of those people Haden.
I think that the HAM revamp (so we arent killing ourselves when we do specials) is a great start but im REALLY worried about the massive nerfage. Combat in this game is close to being good, it just needs to be tweaked. Mitigation makes it so that we don't damage each other at the master level, take it out. We also only do 25% of our maximum damage to each other in pvp, with armor being as high as it is..... have there been thoughts along the lines of "lets increase their damage to each other first before nerfing the crap out of everything"?
This Buff/Nerf ssytem you guys have done since launch gets annoying. Melee professions have been brought to god-like levels of power while ranged professions have been left in the dust. Many other professions have been ignored completely since launch. Carbineer...... there are more carbines flying around the movies than any other weapons yet the Carbineer profession still has busted specials and a level of uselessness that borders on insanity. The only "working" trick that the carbine had was the Chargingshot bug. Pikeman..... well, you guys do know that pikemen exist.... right?
One more thing, the AP/AR system needs to be looked at very closely. Medium/Heavy AP weapons dont seem to get the 25% damage multiplier when going against Light Armor or no armor. A Teras Kasi Master and a Master Pikeman can duel, unbuffed without armor doing nothing but auto attacks and the TKM will win the majority fo the time. A Jawa Ion rifle outdamages a Heavy Armor piercing T-21 in PVP all the time.... thats just crazy.
It's my opinion that a BALANCE is needed way more than a total REVAMP. If you fix some specials (look at pistoleer specials first, they seem to have more than a few broken ones) and balance out the damage that we do to each other we'll be doing ok.
Message Edited by mochloD on 08-02-2004 09:33 PM
Jadin
Mon Aug 02, 2004 7:01 pm
#146
Haden,
I rarely post but since I've been reading the forums more intently recently, I thought I'd share my $.02 along with the rest.
I'm one of the quiet ones that plays casually and rarely posts anything. I'm probably typical of that player type you never hear from andis always overlooked in-game since my gameplay is soooo casual (my coming across a Dev in-game would be like winning the lottery). I have to admit that I do see the posts that are made by others and can easily weed out the legitimate problems/concerns from the fluff/flames. The reason I don't feel the need to make my voice heard is because I really feel that you "are" addressing the concerns I have. Its not that I'm in-game 100% happy all the time, or that I don't visit the forums and therefore remain clueless of many issues... I read, and I play, I understand the problemsAND Ifeel that the Dev team is aware of whats wrong and working on it as fast as they can.
So, being "quiet" is neither agreement nor disagreement with the state of the game. My opinion is that being "quiet" is more likely a state of being content with the games growth & development. It is not an uninformed silence but rather and "informed" silence. (just my version of what you've already said)
In some ways, all those that actively address problems and post them on the forums (without flaming) are servingalarger purpose/rolefor the rest of the gaming population. Many of us have no desire to contribute to the discussion because the cohort of players that are vocal (combined with the forum structure and correspondent system) are effectively stating important issues for the rest of us. (My thanks to the many that do this in constructive ways). My theory is that if the current cohort of players who actively post problems/issues were to mysteriously disappear (hehe, hypothetically) then a new group of players would surface to take their place. Hence, a vocal minority is all that will ever "be" vocal because it is all that is needed by the population as a whole. Its a form of forum equillibrium.
Anyway, I just wanted to say that as a quiet player,I'm not blind to the issues facing the game but I'm also having a lot of fun. My thanks to the vocal minority for serving its purpose and allowing MANY of us to focus on playing. Its comforting to know that the Dev team has multiple means of collecting data to make decisions.
Jadin
Sha_Ja
Mon Aug 02, 2004 7:01 pm
#147
Shug>
When will block EVER be fixed for rifleman and pike? Everytime i do block, which is rare, i'm still taking damage and my armor is still getting hit, Its been a VERY long time, and with all the little pushes and fixes for things, do you think this could be adressed at all?
When will block EVER be fixed for rifleman and pike? Everytime i do block, which is rare, i'm still taking damage and my armor is still getting hit, Its been a VERY long time, and with all the little pushes and fixes for things, do you think this could be adressed at all?
raz1337
Mon Aug 02, 2004 7:04 pm
#148
Jedi Robes.
Please, Haden, do something about it, we were promised defense, and were delivered normal clothing. I refuse to continue playing a gimped Jedi without knowing when we're getting some kind of compensation.
OHMSS225
Mon Aug 02, 2004 7:21 pm
#149
"This sentiment was repeated throughout the thread, and I totally agree. That's why we actually seek out comments from people who don't actively participate on the forums, through surveys, focus tests, in-game chatting, etc."
While I don't want to put down the opinions of people not active on the forums, I have to say that it's likely they lack the information to make decisions on what game priorities are. I admit that my opinions on the future of the game would be drastically different if I wasn't exposed to the amount of perspectives and opinions that I read here. Asking players in game, that don't read the forums, what direction they would like to see the game go in is like asking someone who has never read a newspaper or seen a news broadcast what action should be taken in the war in Iraq.
And while I'm sure you try to be as unbiased as possible
, I'm sure that there are certain embarrassing topics that you fail to point out to them that we on the forums have informed each other about, such as reintroduced bugs, etc. While they may not know such things exist, they may be considered top priority by people on the forums.
I'm not trying to discourage you from gathering these types of opinions, but I am asking that you give them the correct amount of consideration and put them in perspective. Just because they've never experienced certain bugs themselves or been faced with the same difficulties as the rest of the community does not make those less of a priority by any means.
While I don't want to put down the opinions of people not active on the forums, I have to say that it's likely they lack the information to make decisions on what game priorities are. I admit that my opinions on the future of the game would be drastically different if I wasn't exposed to the amount of perspectives and opinions that I read here. Asking players in game, that don't read the forums, what direction they would like to see the game go in is like asking someone who has never read a newspaper or seen a news broadcast what action should be taken in the war in Iraq.
And while I'm sure you try to be as unbiased as possible
, I'm sure that there are certain embarrassing topics that you fail to point out to them that we on the forums have informed each other about, such as reintroduced bugs, etc. While they may not know such things exist, they may be considered top priority by people on the forums.I'm not trying to discourage you from gathering these types of opinions, but I am asking that you give them the correct amount of consideration and put them in perspective. Just because they've never experienced certain bugs themselves or been faced with the same difficulties as the rest of the community does not make those less of a priority by any means.
Darius2
Mon Aug 02, 2004 7:22 pm
#150
NickHeel wrote:
"I'm not a smuggler, but after all the talk of a Smuggler Revamp, this comment was bordering on infuriating. What about Greenmarine's posts on a Smuggler Revamp? What were you meaning by this comment?"
If I recall correctly, the original question involved smugglers, specifically, being upset over the combat balance coming after JTL. I personally don't know if we ever promised that the combat balance specifically would include a Smuggler Revamp, but I wasn't aware of that being part of the plan. We have talked many times about a desire to do a Smuggler Revamp. I was apologizing if any smugglers out there were upset because we confused the two. We dostill plana Smuggler Revamp. I don't have an ETA.
Where does Blackman get off thinking we as a single profession were upset about the Combat Revamp/JtL crap? We're upset that they're now blowing us off and sweeping us under the rug until they want to bring us out at their own discretion. The Smuggler community has been PROMISED, scheduled for, and bumped back countless times on a specifically stated, announced, and planned Revamp of the Smuggler profession along the lines of the Chef, Droid Engineer, Jedi, and to a small extent the Image Designer revamps.
I hope Smuggler_Caylin canuse allhis powers to get this cleared up by anyone before all of the Devs are laying the "I don't ever remember the Smugglers being promised a Revamp. We'll have to look into them sometime in the future and see what needs to be done, no ETA on that though" on us. Absolutely ridiculous!
They do have a point Hayden. I too remember Green Marine's posts and I'm not even a smugler. I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt after you apologized, but now, are you either manipulating information or are you ignorant of the past?
Please let me know as apologizing only to continue to manipulate history will convince me that both you, AND SOE are completely untrustworthy and that I am paying for a product with seriously flawed management.
Lying to your customers is a great way to lose them. Which is it? Ignorant or liar?
Cafa
Mon Aug 02, 2004 7:25 pm
#151
Shug_Ninx wrote:
Okay, trying to answer some questions/comments. Not responding to flames.
[snip]
Haden Blackman
LucasArts Producer
Okay, all possible flames aside.
Will you make a public statement that, as a producer of this game, you will guarantee that the maintenance clock does not speed up anymore and poof structuresand you will publicly guarantee that your CSR community has reasonable standards by posting their directives from management to this forum?
ringhrive
Mon Aug 02, 2004 7:42 pm
#152
TheWardog wrote:
Here's another gripe. I just bought that Black Mountain wookiee armor. Figured I'd give it a shot. Granted I was unbuffed but I nearly DIED fighting Chunkers outside Coronet (I think that was the place...). This of course is after NPCs are able to use special attacks, but crikey! Between the armor and my PSG my health bar went down quicker than Monica Lewinski in the Oval Office....
Istill don't understand how people that have to buff just to wear armor can continue to wear that armor when the buff runs out. I've still yet to get an answer on that question...
Wardogus
Heh... welcome to the wonderful world of wearing armor
TennerRavenstar
Mon Aug 02, 2004 7:43 pm
#153
Welcome back Haden.. We've been waiting for you /insert scary music
Oh well.. Some issues I'd like to bring up.
First off: Developer-Player communication. I recently finished my master's thesis on the topic of player participation and communication in MMOG's, and as such It has been more than a little interesting watching affairs lately.
As I see things, it's clear that the developers (with the 'developers' I’m referring to the team behind the game in general) intended from early on to encourage and maintain a high level of communication with the players. Both the actions of the developers (especially in the earlier stages of the games lifetime) and later the introduction of the correspondents system and the re-structuring of the boards and website to clearly present the 'in concept', 'in development', 'in test' and 'in live' forums. As such I have never really doubted to developers intent to communicate, but I am rather sad to see the current state of that level of communication. I believe that some of all these trouble could have been avoided or at least reduced, if the player base who participates in the forums actually had a feeling of being listened to and their opinions respected.
Tell us what’s going on.. and preferably not in the 11th hour.
I think the development team is failing somewhat to put themselves in our shoes. I don't doubt that all of you work very hard, are very committed and passionate about the game. But from the players side of the fence there’s very little that shows this. It’s exceedingly rare to see developers post on any of the profession forums for example. I know the idea of the correspondent forum is to act a conduit between the professions and the developers. But when a developer posts on a profession (or any other forum) it not only generates feedback, it shows us that you are alive, working and care about us and your game. Consider some of the professions with some of the more serious and long standing problems. If there’s months or longer between seeing a developer post on their forums, while they have to make do with a buggy or problematic playing experience they are going to feel left out and ignored, which in turn will lead to the perception that 'the devs doesn’t care'. Currently this has evolved to the point where experience has shown the players that the only way of getting feedback or a dialog with the developers is to scream, rant and throw a fit. To counter this, you need to beat us to the rants. Post on various issues. Especially the ones you know exists, ask if everything else if wrong on a regular basis .. Don't wait for those 60 page posts of 'burn the devs, they s0x0rz' to start posting.
I think the development team is failing somewhat to put themselves in our shoes. I don't doubt that all of you work very hard, are very committed and passionate about the game. But from the players side of the fence there’s very little that shows this. It’s exceedingly rare to see developers post on any of the profession forums for example. I know the idea of the correspondent forum is to act a conduit between the professions and the developers. But when a developer posts on a profession (or any other forum) it not only generates feedback, it shows us that you are alive, working and care about us and your game. Consider some of the professions with some of the more serious and long standing problems. If there’s months or longer between seeing a developer post on their forums, while they have to make do with a buggy or problematic playing experience they are going to feel left out and ignored, which in turn will lead to the perception that 'the devs doesn’t care'. Currently this has evolved to the point where experience has shown the players that the only way of getting feedback or a dialog with the developers is to scream, rant and throw a fit. To counter this, you need to beat us to the rants. Post on various issues. Especially the ones you know exists, ask if everything else if wrong on a regular basis .. Don't wait for those 60 page posts of 'burn the devs, they s0x0rz' to start posting.
The combat revamp affair is another example. We first heard about this mysterious combat rebalance back before the New Year. Time goes by and while the first approximate timeframe for its release approaches we hear nothing from the developers on what’s planed of how things are preceding. We don't see examples or get asked for feedback and then it disappears.. Only to be rescheduled. These announcements pushing it back is not posted in a clear thread by a developer stating what has happened by rather as something of a by the way note in a 'team letter'. To be honest I was very surprised. The combat rebalance seemed to completely break with the developer’s tradition of asking and informing to players. This has been going on until now. The HAM revamp document is the first actual, concrete result of the combat rebalance we've seen for over six months. It's very hard to trust you people when you don't let us see some results, plans or information once in a while. Especially, when you essentially asking us to wait patiently for so long while you work on things.
The bottom line is that you NEED to keep us in the loop if you want to receive usable feedback and reduce the kind of back lashes we saw following the combat reschedule and your interviews. We NEED to have our faith in the developers’ team reaffirmed on a running basis. Especially when were sufferings from game issues that are slow in fixing. Make a point of visiting the various forums on a regular basis, not just when things blow up and people are screaming for blood.
Fix some problems
I know, it might seem rather harsh to ask this, I'd imagine the developer’s team feels that this is something they've been doing at a breakneck rate since launch. But to put it bluntly, it rarely feels that way from the player’s side of the fence. There are so many bugs and issues still plaguing the game, quite a few which has been around more or less since launch. We see you make new grand schemes for great things to come, it sometimes feel like your to busy with ambitious plans to 'bother' with the less glamorous maintenances and fixes. It seems you are aiming at fixing lists of issues in the ‘pre-revamp bandaid’ publish. Please! Don’t let us down. Please show us some actual improvements that we can feel in our day to day game play. We really need this if we are to have any chance of keeping up any hope in the future of the game.
I know, it might seem rather harsh to ask this, I'd imagine the developer’s team feels that this is something they've been doing at a breakneck rate since launch. But to put it bluntly, it rarely feels that way from the player’s side of the fence. There are so many bugs and issues still plaguing the game, quite a few which has been around more or less since launch. We see you make new grand schemes for great things to come, it sometimes feel like your to busy with ambitious plans to 'bother' with the less glamorous maintenances and fixes. It seems you are aiming at fixing lists of issues in the ‘pre-revamp bandaid’ publish. Please! Don’t let us down. Please show us some actual improvements that we can feel in our day to day game play. We really need this if we are to have any chance of keeping up any hope in the future of the game.
Jwmc4
Mon Aug 02, 2004 7:47 pm
#154
Notice they wont touch the FUBAR Force ranking System or even ackknowlede the problems
Really would like some coment on wether you guys even know its really broken?
And im not just talking about a tweak in numbers the system is fundementally broken!
Jacoba
Mon Aug 02, 2004 8:12 pm
#155
Sewoo wrote:Thanks for the response.Here is the meat of the nut for many, many people:It doesnt seem as though you have enough programers writing code. The discontent is that we are not waiting for enhancements to the game - we are waiting for working systems.There are many things that are flat out broken and need attention. Asking customers to continue to pay for a game, where many aspects don't work as intended/don't work at all is really, really frustrating.I don't mean to sound cruel, but I don't care what the problems are. I am paying for a service that I have certain expectations for. Fix the game - now. If that means you have to hire 35 more programers, then do so.
Amen, Amen and Amen
Jacoba
Mon Aug 02, 2004 8:27 pm
#156
Mr Haden
As a formerly paying customer, I insisted on 3 things
Good, timely, professional service
Truthfullness in communication
A playable game
Of the 3 I have experienced none of the above. I had to go so far back in January of this year to submit a complaint to the BBB in order to get any kind of response from your Customer Service Reps at all.
The situation was then handled, but it was only after 3 in game reports over 3 weeks and finally a letter to the Better Business Bureau.
On the GCW/CR issues we have been lied to constantly since last November. You can call it what you want, but in the end, when you promise for 9 solid months that things will happen "Soon", you cannot then turn around and tell me that you are going to push back a critical fix for this game because you want to sell an expansion. THAT sir, is a series of lies capped off by greed.
The game is playable only as a large 3d chatroom. Most of what myself and my friends do in the course of an evening is filled with bugs. That sir, is NOT a playable game.
3 failures out of 3 desires spells a financial loss for SOE in my book. A loss of 30.00 in my case per month.
So go ahead, make your precious JTL and ignore those of us who have stuck around for over a year. I will not be buying your expansion, furthermore I will not be renewing my last account which runs out the 7th of August.
Don't piss on my head and tell me it's raining.
As a formerly paying customer, I insisted on 3 things
Good, timely, professional service
Truthfullness in communication
A playable game
Of the 3 I have experienced none of the above. I had to go so far back in January of this year to submit a complaint to the BBB in order to get any kind of response from your Customer Service Reps at all.
The situation was then handled, but it was only after 3 in game reports over 3 weeks and finally a letter to the Better Business Bureau.
On the GCW/CR issues we have been lied to constantly since last November. You can call it what you want, but in the end, when you promise for 9 solid months that things will happen "Soon", you cannot then turn around and tell me that you are going to push back a critical fix for this game because you want to sell an expansion. THAT sir, is a series of lies capped off by greed.
The game is playable only as a large 3d chatroom. Most of what myself and my friends do in the course of an evening is filled with bugs. That sir, is NOT a playable game.
3 failures out of 3 desires spells a financial loss for SOE in my book. A loss of 30.00 in my case per month.
So go ahead, make your precious JTL and ignore those of us who have stuck around for over a year. I will not be buying your expansion, furthermore I will not be renewing my last account which runs out the 7th of August.
Don't piss on my head and tell me it's raining.