Development Cycle Archive

My R3 droid was capable prepatch to repair droids, now i cant use it, it's useless :'(

I've read through many of the messages on this forum. They appear to have the same general theme: "Droid Invasion" is a joke and would have been more aptly titled "Droid Evasion".

What I think the DE community is missing is the simple fact that the current developers of this game are a group of talentless buffoons. Don't expect much out of them. The developers that designed this game have moved on and what we are left with are a group of half-wits that probably spendmost of theirtime making excuses to their managers about how sophisticated the design is and that changes can't be made without creating havoc in the system -- or some such bull.

If a softwareproduction team doesn'tdeliver a finished and well-made product by release date, it is HIGHLY unlikely that it will improve much afterward. The talented developers that are a part of the initialchallenging endeavor to create the software get bored and burned out. They move on and are replaced by formula hires --the product of the marriage between thecorporate human resource machine and IT wannabe's with MBA's, who shun talent out resentment for not having any themselves.

I posted the following message earlier but it appears to have been deleted by the board's "moderator". I'll continue to re-post it if it gets deleted again -- If I get posting rights revoked, I will use an alias to post it.

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I've read through many of the messages on this forum. They appear to have the same general theme: "Droid Invasion" is a joke and would have been more aptly titled "Droid Evasion".

What I think the DE community is missing is the simple fact that the current developers of this game are a group of talentless buffoons. Don't expect much out of them. The developers that designed this game have moved on and what we are left with are a group of half-wits that probably spend most of their time making excuses to their managers about how sophisticated the design is and that changes can't be made without creating havoc in the system -- or some such bull.

If a software production team doesn't deliver a finished and well-made product by release date, it is HIGHLY unlikely that it will improve much afterward. The talented developers that are a part of the initial challenging endeavor to create the software get bored and burned out. They move on and are replaced by formula hiring -- the product of the marriage between the corporate human resource machine and IT wannabe's with MBA's, who shun talent out of resentment for not having any themselves.

I've read through many of the messages on this forum. They appear to have the same general theme: "Droid Invasion" is a joke and would have been more aptly titled "Droid Evasion".

What I think the DE community is missing is the simple fact that the current developers of this game are a group of talentless buffoons. Don't expect much out of them. The developers that designed this game have moved on and what we are left with are a group of half-wits that probably spend most of their time making excuses to their managers about how sophisticated the design is and that changes can't be made without creating havoc in the system -- or some such bull.

If a software production team doesn't deliver a finished and well-made product by release date, it is HIGHLY unlikely that it will improve much afterward. The talented developers that are a part of the initial challenging endeavor to create the software get bored and burned out. They move on and are replaced by formula hiring -- the product of the marriage between the corporate human resource machine and IT wannabe's with MBA's, who shun talent out of resentment for not having any themselves.

Smurfwalker said:

Whilst I'm not weighing into the actual argument over what are good/bad changes (I don't have an opinion yet), these changes have been on the test center for quite some time, and it would not have taken a whole lot to read the release notes or hop onto the test center to discover these things for yourself while there was still time to be involved in the development process.

Complaining about things that have been known for some time (ie. no droidekas etc.) is counter-productive, and contributes to a whole lot of emotional wind that the developers have to sort through to actually find any bugs.

If the changes affect you so much, you should have read the notes and checked out the test center, and the test center forums before it went live.

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This statement is not appropriate. DEs have been tracking the issues on TC both in TC and on the DE forum. All the criticisms you are reading in these posts have been posted ad nauseum on the DE boards and to the point where the DE community decided to just wait and see. To my knowledge none of the issues complained about have changed at all since the publish went to TC. Bugs were fixed on TC, but everything I have read on the forums indicates that the publish was not changed at all prior to going live. Fact is, the DE community has checked out the TC and has made comments. And guess what...we're still not happy.

Prin Eckbo

Master Droid Engineer, Shadowfire

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Naufragus wrote:

why is that NOT feasible????

why must EVERYTHING in the game be compared to a Level 10 pet...

This is pure CH protectionsism....

They are AFRAID to give us decent droids because it would undermine the Beatmasters...the same way that once we had speeders, mounts became irrelevant.

remember all their excuses about needing camps to protect scouts...

there just seems to be a pattern of the devs being stuck in the UO2/EQ2 mentality and trying to keep this game stuck in some medieval fantasy world.

Maybe they need to rethink their CL 10 system because its holding DEs and BEs back

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Actually, CHs were among those most vocal about removing the camp calling requirement.

Many CHs are fans of the DEs and have been begging the devs to give the DEs useful droids that appeal to the entire player base. Not necessarily combat droids, but droids that perform useful work and are desirable as an enhancement to the play experience of everyone.

Unfortunately, this would endanger the precious time sinks that the devs had planned for all the players to prevent them from advancing in their professions to quickly. So BLLs don't lift anything. Droids can't be used to tend to harvesters, or augment surveying. They can't be used to perform repetitive tasks...the things droids are ideally suited for.

If you want to control something higher than CL 10, invest the skill points in it. Don't ask to control the power available to a CH for free. This is the equivalent of demanding that everyone be certified to use a flame thrower, wield a vibro knuckler, or toss AOE poisons. Many CHs think it's a crime that non-CHs can order ANY creature to attack anything.

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SioBabble wrote:

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Naufragus wrote:

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Actually, CHs were among those most vocal about removing the camp calling requirement.

Many CHs are fans of the DEs and have been begging the devs to give the DEs useful droids that appeal to the entire player base. Not necessarily combat droids, but droids that perform useful work and are desirable as an enhancement to the play experience of everyone.

Unfortunately, this would endanger the precious time sinks that the devs had planned for all the players to prevent them from advancing in their professions to quickly. So BLLs don't lift anything. Droids can't be used to tend to harvesters, or augment surveying. They can't be used to perform repetitive tasks...the things droids are ideally suited for.

If you want to control something higher than CL 10, invest the skill points in it. Don't ask to control the power available to a CH for free. This is the equivalent of demanding that everyone be certified to use a flame thrower, wield a vibro knuckler, or toss AOE poisons. Many CHs think it's a crime that non-CHs can order ANY creature to attack anything.

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i had to holo grind CH.....so i do have a little experience....

most every creature in game is well above level 10...most NPCs are 20 +...they average about 32 i believe

Check the SWG resource center for listings....

I really belive that ANY player should be able to us a level 20 creature and below...

IMO the CHs job should be to TAME creatures and mounts and SELL them to other players...not just use them for themselves...

but CHs get a huge bonus in the game...they can send out 2 tanks that do a good amount of damage and combined with a combat skill gives you big adbvantages in the PVE area..

can't anyone use weapons they dont have a cert for, the damage is greatly reduced?

something is just wrong when animals are fully functioning at release but droids havent even been worked on...they should have been a priority 2 years ago...not a year after release.

What kind of galaxy do we live in where big chickens are more powerful than machines?

The point of droids and robots in general is to do work for man...to extend our abilities and do things we cant do, to do menial tasks to free us up to important things

trying to match droids to pets is just wrong

Publish 8 appears to be even a bigger joke...we get nothing but a disco ball droid and a spam-bot...lets get some useful droids

WOW a lot of posts i have them all now

1.rj00789 great work you made the best out of nothing

2. Its allready a droid invasion the droids are attacking theed from time to time (dont ask me at what time i dont know)
that justexplains name of patch for me (they attacking theed palace btw .. )

I am pleased with what we have so far....

I as a DE that has followed the forums closely, was not surprised that we didnt get any new chassis or droidekas, and I understand the wallpaper thing as it relates to the Corvette, although thats not here yet! I wish Most of us would quit whining about what we don't have and workin with what we Do, and continue to offer CONSTRUCTIVE criticism as to what can be made better! I for one made over a half million dollars last night in Coronet makin the new droids by hand!! I didn't overexagerate their capabilities at all, I told everyone that they were equivilant to CL10 pets and advised them of the HAM and Damage before each purchase.I was able to sell the R3's at 65k, and the Probots and LE's at 55k all night! My main problem was the DE's that are so ashamed of our product that the totally undersold it!!!! I talked to several DE's that were offering R3's for 30k!!! Thats just nuts considering the time,resources and effort involved in the makin of these puppies! I actually had one customer stick with me even though one of his guildee's had just got an R3 with very similar stats for 30k. I told him I wouldnt blame him for going to the other DE and he Declined and asked me for TWO droids, so I gave him both for 100k total!..........So what I'm gettin at here this....we can all keep on griping and probably never get anywhere with the DEVS, or we can embrace what we have and TRY move forward together and make everyone want to own a combat droid as the are and keep workin with the devs RESPECTFULLY on the issues like armor and and upcomming modules and etc. I am confidant that if we show the DEVs and SOE that we are willing make an effort with what we already have they will be more willing to make an effort to help us get what we all want!!! Thanks TH for your work, Thanks to Drashk for all his great work and a special thanks to TK for his willingness to jump into the LIONS DEN!!!!!!

Oh PS , we can't call out a pet and a dropid at the same time, lol that should satisfy the Bug requirement for this thread!!

Sincerely, Peyote

MasterDE/Master Artisan/Master Fencer,Flurry

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Animi wrote:

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Shislkah wrote:

This post is for players who want to know how the Droid Invasion publish ended up so weak where droids are concerned. The answer is, Forum Users. The Devs came to the DE forum in January with a plan involving REAL combat droids, including droideka. At that point I was a DE who was thinking of dropping it, and I was totally jazzed to see their plan. Then the most peculiar thing happened, DE's used the forums to collectively say "We are only interested in crafting, combat droids aren't part of the continuity." Over the course of a week or two some very perplexed Devs (who had been hearing "Give me droideka!" for months prior) listened to the "DE community" (or that 10% of it that makes their voice heard) and decided that the customer is always right. This publish, as far as droids, is exactly what the DE's asked for: no meaningful combat, no new droids, and a couple slots on a the Adv. BLL.

Go to the DE forum and read the neat stuff posted from January through early February by the Devs, and read how players ground it to a halt in mid-development, resulting in this publish.

Personal Note: No skill is worth being angry and bored, if it's not working for you, drop it and get a new skill that you enjoy - this will solve 90% of your in-game problems.

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Quoted for Truth.

This is exactly what happened. DEs shot themselves in the foot and ostracized their customers. The entire playerbase was looking forward to combat droids, and I daresay they would have been fine if it was implemented via a new droid commander profession. The DEs ruined that vision by complaining about a lack of "utility" droids. I was amazed when I saw the Devs agree to shift course mid stream.

Utility droids = futility droids.

Totally useless and not worth the effort. This publish was a huge disappointment.

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No we did not shoot ourselves in the foot. What we tried to do was expand our markets to every profession. We provide concret reasons why everyone should have the ability to handel droids and took great exception to the droid system being an exact copy of the P*O*K*E*M*O*N system. There is no reason why a elite profession can't handel a combat driod of a levle heigher that 10. This should be part of the profession and not treated as free points. DEs should be able to use every type of droid they make as we're the only ones who truly understand what's going on under the hood. Perhaps with some loss in effectivness but we should still be able to use them. Everyone should be able to use a class 10 combat bot and novice marksman/brawler should be able to use a level 15. Now for the argument that combat droids are banned. So they are baned it's just one more counterband device that can get us in trouble. Dose slicing being baned stop smugglers from doing it???? I'd say after a certain level, you have to start worrying. And if you get really high on the level you risk being hunted, or something like that. There's your balance. Balance is not giving us healing packs, which are hard to use in battle, and nerfing the armor. While you're at nerf the at-st armor as well since it's all the same stuff....

What the devs are failing to take into account here is that the % of programmers/computer people is very high compaired to other games and we simply do not like being blindsided and told half truths.

As for game balance, i wish the devs would stop worrying about it so much. If they had given us droids with a cert system in place the balance would have been just fine. Also i think they are calling unbalance when there is no need to do at all.

There have been some good points made here about combat droids and the DE profession in general. As a long time player of this game I think having a really cool CL10+ droid would be cool. As a DE I would love to make these droids and also control them. But really the real issue with DE and one of the main reasons I consider dropping it everyday for architect is that DEs have no demand for any of their products. I have been a DE for about 3 months now and have sold a total of 25 droids. I sell primarily med droids with food/chem crafting and storage droids. I have sold one droid with a clothing/armor crafting station in it. Most of my droids though consist of MSE storage droids. Now combat droids would be cool and controlling them would be cool, but hey weaponsmiths dont get to use the weapons they make, unless they take up a combat class, architects sell a lot of harvesters,city structures, houses and furniture and dont fight. The point is we put our skill points into crafting, as a DE we usually get master Artisan, and often pick up most or all of Merchant for sales; that leaves few skill points left for anything else. Are we a broken profession....yes...and here is why.

1. Experimentation means almost nothing in utility droids. Better resources and more experimentation points will translate into a higher quality rating for the droid but overall the functionality of the droid will be the same whether it is experimented or not. now the new combat modules do take experimentation into effect a little but overall it usually is the difference in a few HAM and that is it.

2. Droids do not decay or die. Take out your probot and let some humbaba smash it to bits and then wait 60 seconds and recall it. Sure now you heal droids, but why do ever need another droid? Im not sure if vitality is factor in combat droids, but if you buy a medical droid from me, you will not need to buy another one. SO because of this we end up with this:

3. DEs have few salable products and few return customers. Because we lack experimentation that Master DE downthe road isnt really making anything better than the other DE. We all know where to go for the best armor, weapons, BER 13 harvesters and what not, but where do I go for that great medical droid?.....well you go to any DE that can make level 4 med modules, which is most.

So the real problem is that we fail as a crafting class because no one wants to buy our products and the new combat droids have increased sales temporarily, that too will soon die off. We have a binary load lifter that can hold 10 items and so can the MSE, thats a difference in cost of about 40k.

I would like to see more useful expendable droids, that work off a charge system like the seeker droids. Droids for surveying, repair, maintenance, etc. Unfortunately this game is so combat driven, and that is fine, that unless the DEs can find a way to fit into that niche, or at least provide support professions (medics and crafters) with better droids,it will always be broken.

Prin Eckbo

Master DE, Shadowfire