CUEmu - Thread Posts

Thunderheart

Wed Jun 23, 2004 12:18 am

caddelite wrote:

Get rid of GTEF... bring back REVENGE TEF!

Here is a great example of somethingthat has taken on a life of its own in the game.There is no such thing as a "revenge TEF". This is a game mechanic that wasn't put in the game specifically, but it has taken on a life of its own.

When you say "revenge TEF", what do you mean exactly? What is happening when you get one of these and how do you think it works?

Kurt "Thunderheart" Stangl
Community Relations Manager

Kane_Firestalker

Wed Jun 23, 2004 12:23 am

#145

Thunderheart wrote:

caddelite wrote:

Get rid of GTEF... bring back REVENGE TEF!

Here is a great example of somethingthat has taken on a life of its own in the game.There is no such thing as a "revenge TEF". This is a game mechanic that wasn't put in the game specifically, but it has taken on a life of its own.

When you say "revenge TEF", what do you mean exactly? What is happening when you get one of these and how do you think it works?

Revenge TEF was when player A kills player B. player B then clones and still has a TEF on player A because player A delivered the DeathBlow. player B can then get the first shot off on player A, hence the name 'revenge tef'.

edit: this was in game, but has since been removed.

Message Edited by Kane_Firestalker on 06-22-2004 12:24 PM

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JanuHull

Wed Jun 23, 2004 12:24 am

#146

Thunderheart wrote:

caddelite wrote:

Get rid of GTEF... bring back REVENGE TEF!

Here is a great example of somethingthat has taken on a life of its own in the game.There is no such thing as a "revenge TEF". This is a game mechanic that wasn't put in the game specifically, but it has taken on a life of its own.

When you say "revenge TEF", what do you mean exactly? What is happening when you get one of these and how do you think it works?

The Revenge TEF was the means by which a player recently cloned was still able to attack his killer.

This led to numerous zerg defense issues where a player simply could not be stopped from attacking because they would simply clone and come back for more. PvP battles could last for hours and someone in the right state of mind (Combat Medics or Commandos with the old DOTs) could come back from a Cloning Center, totally unattackable, and lay waste to whomever killed him in an unstoppable first strike.

Basically, there was no way to "win" a PvP engagement. Being victorious only left you open to the Revenge TEF strike from the cloning center from the person you just killed.

Note, this was an issue before Doc buffs were an active tactic, so a newly cloned fighter was on fairly level footing strength wise with the person who killed him.

Janu Hull
CertifiedjWing Nut
CFA
"This is not the ground game, please see a therapist for your outrage."

Taewyn

Wed Jun 23, 2004 12:25 am

#147

There is no revenge TEF....I think he is being sarcastic...

There was once a revenge TEF (as I am sure you know) and the devs took it out because it was "lame"....Somone could get the first shot in, which, usually resulted in the oppossing players death.

When they took out revenge TEF theyreplaced it withGtef...Which, is actually far far worse then revenge TEF ever was (because it does not require the person to die, in order to do it).

So, instead of one player getting a "revenge" tef on another....Whole groups form with 19 coverts and one overt, and Gtef the crap out of anyone who fights them...this is extreamly bad with CM's because 19 CM's can poison* disease*6 the person before he can ever attack them.

Message Edited by Taewyn on 06-22-2004 12:26 PM

Taewyn Alsan Lt Colonel in service of the Empire

Taewyn and Oqua's "As you like it" Armor and Clothing store. On Naboo, right outside of Kaadara Location: +5729 +6376.

TheLateAnakinSolo

Wed Jun 23, 2004 12:26 am

#148

O, the good old days

Revenge TEF would work like jedi tef's right now...

I remember sooo well... I was just talking to someone, and thinking about buying an item, and he came up behind me, and killed me. I jumped out of the cloner, burst ran, and slaughtered the same imp who killed me before. Now, where you have to worry about someone getting revenge... that was a good game mechanic (and back then you didn't drive people from PvP with decay... and dizzy kd wasn't even part of the game. THOSE were the good days

- I support keeping & balancing the current combat system
Face Loran (2 unlocks), Rostek Horn (Jedi Knight), Corbantis
*April 17th, 2004* to *Sept 13th, 2004.* *Dec 20th, 2004* to *Unknown*
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acecjast

Wed Jun 23, 2004 12:26 am

#149

Thunderheart wrote:

caddelite wrote:

Get rid of GTEF... bring back REVENGE TEF!

Here is a great example of somethingthat has taken on a life of its own in the game.There is no such thing as a "revenge TEF". This is a game mechanic that wasn't put in the game specifically, but it has taken on a life of its own.

When you say "revenge TEF", what do you mean exactly? What is happening when you get one of these and how do you think it works?

ill assume they mean he dies he comes out of the cloner stands right next to the person who killed him then attacks and kills that person who couldnt defend himself. that is revenge tef thought it was removed though. The only tef needed is that which is gained by healing an overt or attacking a factional npc

AldrakSWG

Wed Jun 23, 2004 12:29 am

#150

Kane_Firestalker wrote:

Revenge TEF was when player A kills player B. player B then clones and still has a TEF on player A because player A delivered the DeathBlow. player B can then get the first shot off on player A, hence the name 'revenge tef'.

edit: this was in game, but has since been removed.

Message Edited by Kane_Firestalker on 06-22-2004 12:24 PM

Yup, was a bug that made it to live for awhile. The TEF didn't clear correctly on cloning and it was a huge issue back in the day.

For my 2 cents: Remove GTEF from the game, period.

Issogi'ka Itydo

~Original Attention W**** Extraordinaire~

Jimbo and Asa's Egotistical Snobby Bish

...and occassionally Asaekai

Khragon

Wed Jun 23, 2004 12:29 am

#151

Thunderheart wrote:

caddelite wrote:

Get rid of GTEF... bring back REVENGE TEF!

Here is a great example of somethingthat has taken on a life of its own in the game.There is no such thing as a "revenge TEF". This is a game mechanic that wasn't put in the game specifically, but it has taken on a life of its own.

When you say "revenge TEF", what do you mean exactly? What is happening when you get one of these and how do you think it works?

LOL...TH you removed revenge TEF from the game. It used ot be that after you cloned you could attack the person cause they had a TEF for 10 minutes after, it was removed from the game many months ago, like the fall sometime.

JanuHull

Wed Jun 23, 2004 12:33 am

#152

GTEFing has been there all along. Its only gained prominence since the Revenge TEF was elminated.

Prior to the removal of the Revenge TEF (or the clearing of TEFs on cloning), people who grouped were able to attack the RTEFer regardless of status. So as you see, GTEF has always been there, it just wasn't the abused mechanic of the day.

Janu Hull
CertifiedjWing Nut
CFA
"This is not the ground game, please see a therapist for your outrage."

ChewGoBack

Wed Jun 23, 2004 12:34 am

#153

revenge tef was the win for commandos!

probably before your time though TH?

Message Edited by ChewGoBack on 06-22-2004 08:36 PM

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Rubicon49BC

Wed Jun 23, 2004 2:02 am

#154

JanuHull wrote:

Rubicon49BC wrote:

Don't make them overt, not even temporary. It only leads to new ambush tactics. Give people a TEF for grouping with an overt, otherwise you're just shifting the problem around.

How does this open new ambush tactics? Its eliminating the worst of them. If you act in any manner which could have given you a TEF, you are rendered overt. The GTEF is a whole separate ball of wax for its first strike ability, and your idea to TEF people grouped with overts is fine, in fact, if you temp overt players grouped with declared overt players, you can REALLY eliminate the ambush problem.

Ok, 2 scenario's.

I am a covert Imperial and I go stand next to a PC rebel base. I watch people going by and at a certain point an unbuffed overt rebel comes by. I shoot a rebel NPC, turn overt and then wallop the Rebel PC. Ambush nr 1.

I am a covert imperial with 19 covert imperial friends. We go into a group and 19 of us shuttle to a rebel town. Once we are in position, everybody geared up for combat, buddy Nr 20 who stayed behind goes overt with a recruiter. BAM, we are overt too and rip into our enemies. Ambush Nr 2. We can even fight forever as long as buddy nr 20 is overt, since even when we die, we clone overt since we are grouped with an overt.

One more thing, about the ambush. I'm not sure if everybody plays this way, but when I am overt and land anywhere where there are blue dots around, I will quickly turn 360 degrees while hitting the tab key to see if there are any TEFs there. Call me paranoid

Message Edited by Rubicon49BC on 06-23-2004 11:06 AM

Colonel Malachon Draco, Imperial Army
Commander of The Imperial Order
Starsider

Tyrst

Wed Jun 23, 2004 4:39 am

#155

I know I saw a post in here about the GTEF being a good thing because of ambushes, but here is what is wrong with that scenario.

1 overt + 5 coverts.

I am overt and I check and sure enough there is an ambush. I decide not to attack the overt because I do not want to get jumped by the other 5 people that are in hiding. The overt decides he isn't having this and fires on me. My choice is to either fire back and have to deal with 6 people or to not fire back by spamming /peace and risk getting killed by 1 player. Either way I die unless I can run faster than they can.

The GTEF system is also leading to people being purposely triple incapped in order to prevent clone zerging. This results in decay on items and in some cases severe decay on items. The GTEF system really needs to be removed from the game to restore fair play for everyone involved. I really like Jesters ideas and I think he is more aware of what is going on in the PvP community than anyone else.

Teer Sanbar
Widow Makers
The Emperors Servant

Mujaa

Wed Jun 23, 2004 5:16 am

#156

Here is what happened to me one night, i decide to do some pvp, i buff up, suit up and go overt. Turns out it was a seemingly slow night, and 2 hours pass /sigh uneventfully. So after going town to town starport to starport there i am in the 3rd hour of my buffs at the coronet ticket droid, and then WHAM. 4 red dots appear on my radar, each at a cardinal point of direction, each equidistant from me at abt 50ish meters, then before burst run can even kick in i am quadruple headshotted incapd and DB'd, didnt even make it to the ticket terminal, much less out of the starport. This is a primary example of the infamous, the insidious GTEF, which, i duno abt other servers, the imperials on starsider have turned into a rather deadly art form. Frankly i was flattered to be assasinated so profesionally, but disagree with thegame mechanic involved.How did they do it? in a bit but first some other relevant experiences..

Many Many times, I have been covert and joined a group of covert rebels to do some pvp, inevitably someone asks,"who is going to go overt?" some do some dont, What is interesting considering the posts just prior to this one, is that when some of us go overt, the other grp members, who are in the same "zone" city starport etc, DO NOT GO OVERT, OR GAIN A TEF.

I may be wrong in the case of a grp leader going overt, dont recall enough details, it may well be tht if the grp leader goes overt whilst leading a grp of coverts they may get a TEF, I have never heard of this happening, and have never seen it happen.

What does happen is when an overt invites a covert person into a grp, when they accept the grp invite they gain the coveted GTEF flag, which is altogether different from most TEFs.

So what happened in the case above, and i would assume in rubicons 20 grp ambush 2 scenario,but more specifically in my story abovewas this, Someone with a second computer has an overt b0t parked somewhere safe, that does the inviting, appropriate hotkeys have of course been made, and the 4 imps targeted me, put their fingers on headshot 3, hit their accept invite hotkey and started spamming.

What is bogus about this is that if i find myself covert in a Pvp situation i intend to join, so i stim a local combatant to gain TEF, but then i cannot attack anyone unless they attack me first, perhaps due to the nature of TEF, or more accurately due to them having TEF themselves and my second generation TEF being inferior to first generation TEF and of course overt.

Ideally the advantage conferred by overt, or a higher generation TEF should be INITIATIVE, the option to strike first in a game where pvp is decided within seconds.

In rubicons other example, attacking an npc for TEF, i would imagine he turned red at the moment, but hoping this Non-GTEF would be inferior to overt, the rebel probably attacked first, and then being unbuffd was "daddy womped".

My problem, and a problem many others have with TEF, is the GTEF b0t manuever affording the attackers total surprise and total intiative versus an overt, which pvp wise should be afforded the first srike vs TEFd opponents.

Often when i see a single red dot coming, with blues in tow, i know they will all accept his invite and turn red, and technically be overt with but a mere TEF, its even worse with the overt second comp b0t outside of town, you dont see anything coming.

I personally think, Thunderheart, that alot of people across all servers, of both factions, would be incredibly pleased if the current TEF system was left the same(with all its quirks and complexities), except for the GTEF overt grp leader invite, which IMO should be plain and simply removed, nothing irks me about MMORPG more than people with multiple comps being given unfair advantage in game, its bad enough to have buff b0ts, but when the buff b0t is overt and does the group inviting, its ridiculous.

I also think, even within my usual technically ignorant state, that removing GTEF would probably be easy, and in any event a poll may be in order, asking "Should overts inviting coverts into a grp give them a TEF upon accepting the grp invite?"

The problem is extreme to the extent that many players would rather have revenge TEF back, as long as GTEF was removed, which is an indicator of how serious many of us are about the issue, because we all know what revenge TEF was like(zerg bleed! zerg bleed!).

I just think people should earn their TEFs, by way of a stim, or an /assist command etc etc, and I think I am not alone in thinking this.

Mujaa Maungre, rebel captain, revealer of Imperial Misinformation

Development Cycle Archive

Thread: Roundtable Discussion: GCW and TEFs