Development Cycle Archive

Thread: Publish 7 Feedback: Crafting System Enhancements

Lupaerian
Wed Mar 17, 2004 8:07 am
#144

Phew - thank the almighty that this is gone now. After the advanced blaster barrel disaster, I decided to make crafting tools and artisan components. Without sweating, I pushed them to 100% using 98% quality resources. I promptly made schematics for these. Now, what's wrong with this picture? Well,artisans who didn't take advantage of that will not be able to compete with my maximised products. That was exactly what we predicted would happen with the people hoarding pre-nerf schematics, it's just that it has been turned the other way around.This is aperfect example of how extremely careful one has to be when implementing even slight changes to the core systems.



"SOE is altering the deal. Pray they don't alter it any further."
ShadowLobo
Wed Mar 17, 2004 8:08 am
#145


Master Chef but novice crafter here, so be kind. Like some I crafted yesterday just to test it out. I found that with this change, which as I understand it placed more emphasis on resource quality and less on exp points, when I experimented on V. Brandy -using berry fruit with a 991 PE and fruit with a 944 PE -I got the exact same result (with great successes all the way) as I did the day before for the buff size. But! on the filling aspect (where my resources aren'tas good) I got a different result after the assembly stage (with the same roll of a great success) from the day before. The filling was 52% instead of 51% and where the day before I used one point to get to 50% (great success) I needed 3 points to get to 50% also all great successes. So it would appear that I was not rewarded forthe high end resources but I was penalized for the low end resources. Since I am not a member of the over $100 million club (shoot I'm not a member of the over $5 million club) and cannot buy the way overpriced skill tapes and such to get more exp points this change did indeed, as someone else stated, help make the rich richer and poor go out of business.


Leave it the way it is(as you are) andthank you.





- Lobo

The reason they call it the 'American Dream' is beacuse you have to be asleep to believe it.
Galandriel4
Wed Mar 17, 2004 8:45 am
#146

I agree that the new system is boring and makes any uniqueness in products impossible. I vote to revert to the pre-publish 7 crafting system.



Now my real question is, what IS going to happen? Are we reverting back or keeping the new system? I would like a dev to reply to this, because if we are staying with the new system, I would like to begin auctioning off all my resources and planning out my new non-crafting character build.





Galandriel's Armor - outside Keren, Naboo at 2884, 1707
Trasgo
Wed Mar 17, 2004 9:19 am
#147

As a Master Droid Engineer, experimentation actually affecting the outcome of an item is very new to me. Yesterday with the new crafting system I was able to create very good Droid Combat Modules that had a combat rating of 107. My resources weren't amazing, but I had copper with OQ and CD in the 920's. The outcome of experimentation actually changed from module to module. Today, when the crafting system reverted, the highest combat rating I was able to get was 103. 103 is still good, but unless I had a critical failure on experimentation it was almost always the same result. Personally, I like having a little variance in the results and as an MDE, I wholeheartedly approve of the new (now gone) crafting system. I understand other professions are against it, but I don't see why the devs gave in before people were even able to try the system. If there was an outcry about the new system after it was implemented then perhaps I would feel better about it, but it seems to me that a lot of people actually liked the new crafting system. I am hopeful that we may go back to the new crafting system.



Trasgo-deSombra
Master Droid Engineer - Leader of the Ruby Cardinals

BlammStarr Tech Starship Chassis & Components
Located in Ruby Lake, Naboo 132 -5460

RatNasty
Wed Mar 17, 2004 9:30 am
#148

I've tried the new system and it does exactly what the pre-patch fears predicted it would do (at least for the multi-line experimenters like myself)


Thanks for going back to the old system.


-Techron

-Bria

-Master Armorsmith/Doctor




Techron
Smuggling Pistoleer Doctor
Thinking about going Commando...
Proud Member of the Galactic Front http://www.galacticfront.com


Naufragus
Wed Mar 17, 2004 9:32 am
#149






jasski_vaarl wrote:


The newbie crater will never be able to compete, unless there happens to be a magic spawn of everything they needed that was better then the previous 6 months. Not going to happen...






actaully i am a master and i cant compete now....My steel is like 10 or so points away from getting a 14 BER harvestor...my 950 UT steel needs to be 970...too bad i have like a million units of it...


now basically the 50+ harvestors i made last month are now just junk....all any one is going to want is a 14....sure i can make them but it will be at the whim of the resource spawns..may tommorrow may be next week, maybe 3 months from now

Yakisoba1
Wed Mar 17, 2004 10:00 am
#150

Very glad the crafting system is reverted to the old one. The folks (players) I see arguing for the new system seem to all be ultimately coming from the same vector: Self-interest. The numbers they are quoting seem to be made with hybridized items (sub components made before the change, and so on), and will not reflect items made soup-to-nuts after the patch.


It's a pity that the system was in place for even one day, because it will enable the higher level (skill) smiths to make schematics that will be good for many items, and inflate the prices of those items in the future. I would have thought that to hold the patch for one more day to "unbake" the changes would have been more effective than to do it the way you did it.


Here's an example, from Asheron's Call: A while back there was a money making exploit that slipped through the cracks. Basically, it allowed a high value item to be crafted and hoarded for a month before AC changed again. The commodity in question is only now coming back into line with a reasonable value, 8-12 months later. And this is a thing that burns up with play! Your situation, with this crafting thing in SWG is far, far worse.


It seems to me that placing blame is pointless, and I am not doing so. The important thing for the live team is to figure out how to avoid such situations in the future, so that the economy in the game doesn't take another hit. The process you are using to evaluate customer feedback and data-mine (you guys are doing that, aren't you?) the game HAS to be improved. Thanks for your time.


--Yak


Morticius
Wed Mar 17, 2004 10:12 am
#151

If anyone from the Dev team is still reading this far down......


Regarding critical failures -- I saw a big decrease in the % of critical failures, but an increase in the number of failures and critical failures during the experimentation process. No biggie here, this is to be expected.


Regarding amazing successes -- A little quirky here. Often, getting an amazing success (especially on weapons components) will *prevent* you from achieving the max stat for the component. There must be some duel math going on in the algorithm, and the amazing success isn't "amazing" to all the stats. In fact, the best way to max components is to get a moderate success on the last point on the damage line, the result of which is one more chance to put a point into damage. There is clearly some factor that is working indepentent of the experiment roll successes that is causeing this.


Regarding the real problem -- I don't mind the changes, but I think (for weaponsmith, at least), you have missed the correct target. The problem is that damage/speed are the same stat line, and the other 3 (durability/range/efficiency) are no where near as important to customers. All weaponsmiths always max the damage/speed/wound% line every single time. You could have made a more substantial change by moving the weapon speed into the efficiency line. Make the starting condition of weapons much lower and have condition points more valuable. Same with range. This would provide much better variety--making it harder for someone with 10 points to max damage independent of other changes is not helpful.



Caedet
Wed Mar 17, 2004 11:17 am
#152

Not sure of everything going on today, but during my 30 min testing I had yesterday, I was not a very happy weaponsmith. Trying to make vibro motors, it only allowed for 5 points into each area. It took all 10 of my points (all great successes and one amazing success) and didn't even get to fill a 5 point bar. The end product was less than what I made pre-patch. The damage of the final product was 5 points max damage less than what I made pre-patch. This was tested and relayed to weaponsmiths on the weaponsmith board to prepare us. We in turn relayed it to everyone else and I think that's where people started freaking out before the patch was released. For doctors and such, it's a good thing, but for us smiths... not so good.



A Kennygo Production
Master Weaponsmith
-5667 3420
Just outside of Theed, Naboo (Gorath) or
356 -5732
Just outside of Coronet
Mizraal
Wed Mar 17, 2004 11:42 am
#153

I'm working on Weaponsmith and this patch is killing me, its made the weapons I can make even more ineffective and I'm using high quality materials. As far as Artisan crafting, I'm a Master using high quality materials but still get a signifigantly lower quality output. In addition moderate success are stil decreasing stats. Good successes still decrease one stat while raising another. The main thing I've noticed besides lower quality output is the increase of moderate successes, which are primarily responsible for the lower quality output. I know some people are makeing better items, but I have yet to expierence this with Artisan and I feel that as weaponsmith in training people climbing the skill trees have beenhamstrung. I'm glad to see the changes go. As it is many proffessions have almost no marketable skills until master.




@ Mizraal @
The man took all my proffesions away. I ain't jack no more.
"Some kind of high powered mutant never even considered for mass production"
Standardlager
Wed Mar 17, 2004 11:57 am
#154

Liked the changes actually!


HATE that they are gone and that this will RUIN this game


TY



Boondizzle/Saxamaphone/Shogun/Slayre/Phu/Phu-
Merchillon
Wed Mar 17, 2004 12:22 pm
#155

I don't know why everyone posting here thinks that new crafting experimentation system is in any way good. I'm a master weaponsmith with some really good high quality resources, but no skill tapes, and every weapon I tried to experiment on came out worse than it did before the publish. I was able to get a slightly higher result on one track for a vibro knuckler, resulting in a +3 min and +6 max higher than before. However, this left me with no points left over to increase the range or the durability, which I was able to do before. This crafting experimentation change is NOT better and would only further stratify the crafters in the game. My other weapons that required resources like iron or steel in them were much worse. I'm very glad that this change is being taken out.


I had no critical failures on assembly, so I'm hoping that is a result of the enhancements that are staying in, which is good. I would also like to add, that despite crafting while in a research center player city, I had a lot more failures and moderate successes than before which does not make it any funner to craft. The results I talked about above are after several tries and finally getting all great successes. I'll be very happy when this is taken out of the game today. It had better still be taken out of the game today!!!!
Cafa
Wed Mar 17, 2004 12:44 pm
#156


Throwing out a question (since the devs are so silent all morning and afternoon):


What would would be so wrong with giving BE/AS/WS another +50 to +100 experimentation thrown in on the way to Master? Seems to me, save from Docs that want everything, this would take care of the short-term and long term problem UNLESS you guys actually want to change resource spawns to make any sense (read different spawns on different planets all the time).


Yes, I do play a Doc too. I like his nice buff packs. I do not think everything needs to be 100% in each line for a Doc to sell buff packs.




- Strength In Numbers - Loyal Subjects of the Empire
Asia Brothers Industries - Asia Hall SiN CiTY, Dantooine (Offers Vendor at -4703 -1404)
A player bodyguard can't protect you either, something agroes you, you are dead. The
only difference between a pet and the person, is you pay the person to stand there
and watch you die. -- Straker Atrella

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