Development Cycle Archive
Thread: IC4: Path of the Jedi
GeneralArthur00
Thu Jul 01, 2004 12:27 am
#1496
The quest should start with a series of static NPC which give you theme park type quests. Following completion of these quests should lead to current profession type quests. Many examples of profession specific quests have already been given like entertaining an NPC or rescuing/healing missions. Another good mission that would be ranger specific is searching for a randomly placed NPC on a planet. This would allow a very interesting use of the track skill considering you'd have to search an entire planet. The system should track how many quests you have done in addition to how long the player has spent doing these quests. So a player that would do 50 missions a day for over a month would have the same chance ofcontinuing the Jedi questas a player that would do 500+ missions a day. Patience with the NPC is important to a prospecting Jedi. Once the player has shown a dedication to the quest, the NPC should award the player with a special sword that cannot be traded/dropped. This sword should be used by the player for a specific amount of time or xpbefore a "borrowed" lightsaber is awarded. After all certain skills should be essential for a Jedi's development (use of a sword/lightsaber, meditation, etc.) I suppose a Jedi character could still use the force but has not met the swordman requirement to wield a lightsaber. In KoTOR you trained with a sword as an apprentice before constructing a lightsaber. Luke however trained directly with a lightsaber under Obi-Wan and Yoda. Perhaps a character that already had swordman/fencer/pikeman would be given credit toward use of a lightsaber and a teras kasi artist with meditaion would get credit toward use of the Force/healing.
Gazskt
Thu Jul 01, 2004 5:05 am
#1498
Sorry, had to think about this.
CONTINUITY IS IMPORTANT!!!
Thats what makes the game fun and unique and not just another DOOM in a larger level (which it is kindof, primarily because there is only one kind of decent armor)..lame...make a few other styles of armor please, that look different and Cool, so that not everyone is running around in Composite all the time. We look like abunch of goons. Funny, i never once saw anybody in any Movie or EU stuff wearing Composite. I think better shield gens might do it, since most people we see in the continuum are wearing clothes...not armor...but i digress. A dedicatedly stun armor would be good (mechanics wise). And some organic stuff like Ulic Quel-Droma and Exar Kun wore would fit the picture. Composite needs some competition. (its not that hard to draw and animate a solid model based on concept art) But I digress (pet peeve).
Metachloriens (sp?) are what determines if a character is force sensitive. These are microorganisms in the bloodstream. The FORCE is essentially the characters life-force, a la Terran New-Ageyness, and the metachloriens augment its tangibility. Perhaps a character's body needs to be in a certain state (unwounded, with a certain HAM perhaps) for metachloriens to take up residence. Perhaps an injection provided by a black market-style jedi hunter, or some foods (imagine what eating Yoda's gruel would do to one after 900 years!!!)could produce the presence of metachloriens...and then as a character advances through certain situations...they could thrive and become great enough in number to allow one to become a Jedi. Perhaps Metachloriens like combat in the day, not at night. And perhaps they only like combat after many days of noncombat!!
Gazskt von Ahazi
Namra
Thu Jul 01, 2004 1:01 pm
#1499
I think the ideas for Publish 10 will ve the death of this game. When this publish goes live the game will either die due to the fact everyone is doing the quests. No one will be there to buff you at coronet, dance for you in the cantinas, build your houses, heal you wounds, even talk to you, and countless other tasks that need other people to complete.
On the other hand, if the quests are easy, all the server will be over run by jedi. It will be Jedi Knight 2: Jedi Outcast multiplayer. Which is not a bad game but i dont want that in the game ive coem to love the way it is.
I truely believe this publish should be cancled. When you think about all i have said I'm sure you wonder "Is Publish 10 really ganna be the demise of this game". My answer is yes, unless the Devs have found a way to regulate how many people do the quests.
Another arguement agaisnt my case is that "Well all the people will be there to do that stuff just while doing the quests". I say "okaaaay, but is that what this game is about?Well in that case we should call it Quest Wars. Don't you think that would fulfil what Publish 10 is going to do? I believe that".
Id like to see what other think about this...Most of you have embraced the idea of the quest system but i dont think you have thought of the reprocusions of what is going to happen when the update comes out. Now you have seen my arguement. What do you think?
nawarazen
Thu Jul 01, 2004 9:46 pm
#1500
There is certainly going to be a rush to jedi after publish 10 but i do not agree that it will be an end of the game. The reason is that this game is a Star Wars based game and most who enjoy the series do because of the jedi. This means many non power gamers played this game to become a jedi therefore without it you would lose many of the community. Also many will find that it is more fun to use their other character for doctors and such while they have another for jedi content. This satisfies both qualities of this game and will strenthen the community, which is important because the shuffling that went on during the hologrind phase. Just my opionion however.
asoivall
Fri Jul 02, 2004 10:24 am
#1501
I think having a blue glowie thing show up after you complete a mission is a great idea. I think the blue glowie thing should only apear when you are alone. Like in your house or alone in the countryside. This would stop bh's from camping static mission npc's. Also the missions shouldnt all be one type of style like combat or artisan stuff. Make them a combination go kill something then make or have made this item.
Namra
Fri Jul 02, 2004 2:06 pm
#1502
Well i have read the devs have decided to put away the timeline. Well the "boring" part of the timeline. It looks like they are concintrating on the Jedi part of the timeline. For the people who read the books...you know that part that consisted of, i dunno, 8 lines maybe. Looks like Star Wars Galaxies is ganna be just Jedi Knight 2. Publish 10 is going to do what i thought it was going to do. It will convert nearly every player into a jedi. Thats basicly what the devs have said with that statement.
I Dunno about you guys, but im not paying 15 dollars a month to play Jedi Knight 2. I would like to play the game i have grown to love Star Wars Galaxies. I pray that the devs were just kidding around because i do not want to play with 500,000 jedi. I mean, hows that ganna be fun? If i wanna play Jedi knight 2, i will play jedi knight 2. What i wanna do is play Star Wars Galaxies. But in the near future it doesnt look like me you or anyone will be able to fulfill that request.
I hope it does not come to this. I hope the devs reconsider what they have said about not sticking to the actual timeline (where there is only a few jedi rather than EVERYONE being a jedi). Some people may say "well if it means me being a jedi then WOOOHOO i dun care". Yes i bet it will be fun....for about 5 minutes until you realize the diversity of the people in game is diminshed, until you realize that everyone is now a jedi and the only real thing you can do is either grind the rest of your profession or PvP. And when that happen the conversion of Star Wars Galaxies to Jedi Knight 2 will fully be complete.
And im sure there are others that dont wanna play Jedi Knight 2 but rather.........Star Wars Galaxies.
snyker
Fri Jul 02, 2004 7:03 pm
#1503
Try to avoid artificial time-delays in-game where we as players are rewarded for long periods of boredom. In other words, I would not complain nearly as much about a restriction that only 1 step can be performed each real-time week (although i wouldn't advocate that) as I would complain about having to stand around doing nothing as I wait for my turn with the long respawn time mob.
Delusionalminer
Sat Jul 03, 2004 1:38 am
#1504
One thing i would like to see is random spawns for at least a good percentage of the quest givers. The completion of one set ofs quest could have the npc tell you to huntfor somebody (possibley narrowing it down with more than just the name to which planet, and possibley which city on some of the easier quests), with this player then spawning randomly with certain restrictions (could be limited to certain planets, some only spawn in cities, others anywhere on the surface or even on any planet etc).
This would instantly prevent or limit the quests from being published on spoiler sites and having a mass in flux of jedi as everybody unlocks within a couple of weeks.
Quest ideas themselves, i would love to see a wide range of quests covering all professions that go above and beyond the theme park's talk to npc, go to waypoin and talk to / kill npc, go back to first npc. These could include:
* Giving an npc specific resources (depending on difficulty and stage of quests could vary from simple fiberplast, to a specific typeand / or named variant of a meat or hide) to help them finish their task in return for a favour or object
* Freeing a prisoner from an instalation (could require specific profs, such as smuggler slicing or bh investigation to break into the building and / or cell, requiring either specific masterings, or the hiring of help)
* Getting information from npc's either for the quest giver (as with the first quests in act 3) to getting the information (and remembering it) to answer questions to get passed guards without getting attacked.
Where possible the quests should involve a selection of tasks to be completed between visits to the quest giver to make each mission not only longer, but also more varied, interesting and diverse from the single 'talk to' or kill missions that most npc's give.
groovysplat101
Sat Jul 03, 2004 4:06 am
#1505
I posted this in response to something else, and I'm posting it here. Jedi won't like it, but this is on behalf of the non-Jedi community, who feel that trying to become a Jedi now is a) stupid, b) too long, and c) not in keeping with Star Wars. If you're gonna have Jedi, I guess we can't change that. But please, make it more fair on us.
This isn't just an anti-Jedi thing - there are a few extra bits which Jedi don't yet have, that would be pretty cool...and a couple of things that are to do with other players and professions, but would fit with a Jedi fix. Oh, and there's a cool thing with drawing Lightsabers, too.
How to fix the Jedi problem, with examples from the films...:
1. Since when did Jedi wear armour? If Jedi had armour, don't you think they would have worn it on Geonosis? The only Jedi to ever wear armour (excluding Luke, who wore Stormie armour as a disguise) is Vader. The only "armour" they should be able to have should be created by their mind. Make it so that (like Wookies used to be), Jedi cannot wear armour, or at least so that wearing armour is very restrictive on their powers. Their cloak shouldn't act like armour, but they should get something - a (VERY) slow drain on their mind pool, that gives them some sort of "mind armour". Anyone who's played D&D (which is probably the first, and most well-known Dice-based Roleplay around) will have heard of stuff like "Mage Armour". Its basically armour made of magic. Jedi should be able to come up with something like this so that, when in combat, they can sacrifice a little bit of their mind pool in order to make themselves more resistant to pain and injury. That would fit with the whole Jedi thing, make it more realistic, and give us non-Jedi more of a chance against them.
2. Make it so that Jedi can have their Lightsaber on their belt. When the combat screen fades after a fight, instead of holding an unignited lightsaber, it should go to their belt, and hide underneath their cloak (if they are wearing one). When they make a lightsaber attack, it is automatically pulled from their belt. Same would be good for Pistoleer, as a kinda "quickdraw" thing. You make a pistol or lightsaber attack, and the weapon automatically ends up drawn. I've also seen "shoulder straps" around...maybe one of those on rifles and carbines, scabbards for one and two-handed swords, etc. It'd add an extra little flair of coolness to the game, and it means you can still attack unarmed without drawing your weapon. It just means that the weapon is out of your way. You'd probably need scabbard/holster items (in the belt and bandolier slots) to pull it off. Would be cool, though.
3. TEFs back on Jedi, but orientated towards Imperial. If some Imperial (PC or NPC) sees someone fighting with a Lightsaber, then of course they're gonna raise an alarm. Enter Stormtroopers, and other Players. If Jedi are going to be in as abundant numbers as they are, they need to be subdued. If Palpatine wants them dead, his Stormtroopers should be able to help.
4. In addition to Bounty Hunters, some NPC "hunters" should be added. Perhaps, when there is an alert to the presence of a Jedi near to a large, and Imperial-controlled city (Theed, Coronet, Bestine, and a few other cities on Coronet, Naboo and such), the Emperor could dispatch his personal guards to hunt the Jedi down. Maybe just two Guards in total. But, they are crack soldiers...the best in the game. They have no armour, like the Jedi (except for a helmet, that might guard against mind hits). They'll be about as tough a PvE adversary (in the shape of a person) that you can get. They carry Force Pikes (I believe), and would probably have a Master TK/Pikeman configuration.
5. Jedi should be given a "sanctuary" location. The temples on Yavin IV would be obvious choices. The one inhabited by Exar Khun (sp?) would be the Dark Jedi home, and then a different one would be for Light Jedi. They'd be like a guildhall for those Jedi, where they could train against fellow Jedi, be instructed by mentors, and be safe. There'd be a lot of Jedi NPCs around to deal with any Bounty Hunters.
6. For the safety of Jedi, more than anything else, they should only be able to Clone at "safe" locations...perhaps only in the temples. If they clone in a public area, there is a chance they might get camped on. If they return to Yavin, ok they have to get back to where they were, but at least they are far enough away from their attacker to be safe. It also makes sense - to ensure their clone was a Jedi also, they'd need special cloning centers...only clones produced by Jedi would have the Midichlorian count that a Jedi needs. It is not, contrary to some EU sources, the Jedi's "soul" that communicates with the Force. Whether you agree or not, its right there in technicolour in Ep 1. Other sanctuaries could be set up by Jedi on other planets (the Jedi Order would act as an extra PA, essentially), and added to a "Jedi Sanctuaries" list, and Rebel or Imperial PA's could have cloning facilities controlled by them added to the list. It'd just add to the underground feel of the Jedi, which they *should* have.
7. Jedi should gain access to the Jedi Starfighter (possibly Anakin's version from Clone Wars, with the Hyperdrive), and Dark Jedi it's equivalent (Vader's TIE, or the Sith Infiltrator, or something). It might work if it replaced thier standard fighter. A tad unfair, I know, but it would point out to other people when a Jedi fighter was around.
8. Not sure how it works right now, but a Jedi character should be a second character, and not take over from the primary account. They should start from scratch in the game, rather than an existing Jedi character spontaniously discovering he was a Jedi. Yes, its happened in EU, but it sucks, to be honest. A Jedi Padawan should be young. You shouldn't, as a Colonel in the Imperial Army (for example) be able to discover by accident that you are a Jedi. It just doesn't work like that. You'd know before then...or has the nature of Jedi changed so that it doesn't emerge until a certain point in your adult life? If an 8-year-old is "too old", then surely a 20-something-old is too.
9. Wanted lists. Works for Smugglers possibly, and maybe Bounty Hunters or Mercenaries or something like that. If you are a Jedi, or a Master Smuggler (read the description of the skills...you're supposed to be notorious), or whatever, and you are caught by an Imperial patrol (Stormtroopers, or perhaps a new "Security Patrol"), you get added to the wanted list. It can be accessed on the Imperial Mission Terminal. When you check the wanted list, it updates the list of known criminals that you are aware of. These show up differently on your Radar. Overt Rebels would also be on this list, and would show up differently. Any known people on the Wanted list would be attackable by you. It adds an extra level of "fear" regarding the Stormtroopers and Imperial Officers that wander around. An equivalent would be availiable on the Rebel Mission Terminals, with Overt Imperials, Dark Jedi (if aligned to the Empire), and of course Bounty Hunters. With some re-work, the Smuggler and Bounty Hunter (and Jedi) professions are potentially some of the most "dangerous" ones in the game, from the point of view of the Imperial government. They should be hunted down and killed...unless, of course, you have something for which you need to hire a Bounty Hunter or Smuggler. Knowing that they are there would help a lot. The only way to "loose" this listing on the Wanted list is to visit an Image Designer, or to wear one of the disguises I keep describing, as part of the new Smuggler skill-set.
Please don't hate me. I just think that right now, with the way they've been altered, and the whole nerfing armour thing (meaning we're pretty much screwed when an overt Rebel Jedi spots us as an over Imperial, or visa versa), Jedi are too powerful. They need nerfing, just like everything else has been in the game. There are too many Jedi right now, both from an "enjoyable PvP" point of view, and a "canon" point of view. Right now, all you're doing is encouraging more. We don't NEED more. We have too many as it is.
This isn't just an anti-Jedi thing - there are a few extra bits which Jedi don't yet have, that would be pretty cool...and a couple of things that are to do with other players and professions, but would fit with a Jedi fix. Oh, and there's a cool thing with drawing Lightsabers, too.
How to fix the Jedi problem, with examples from the films...:
1. Since when did Jedi wear armour? If Jedi had armour, don't you think they would have worn it on Geonosis? The only Jedi to ever wear armour (excluding Luke, who wore Stormie armour as a disguise) is Vader. The only "armour" they should be able to have should be created by their mind. Make it so that (like Wookies used to be), Jedi cannot wear armour, or at least so that wearing armour is very restrictive on their powers. Their cloak shouldn't act like armour, but they should get something - a (VERY) slow drain on their mind pool, that gives them some sort of "mind armour". Anyone who's played D&D (which is probably the first, and most well-known Dice-based Roleplay around) will have heard of stuff like "Mage Armour". Its basically armour made of magic. Jedi should be able to come up with something like this so that, when in combat, they can sacrifice a little bit of their mind pool in order to make themselves more resistant to pain and injury. That would fit with the whole Jedi thing, make it more realistic, and give us non-Jedi more of a chance against them.
2. Make it so that Jedi can have their Lightsaber on their belt. When the combat screen fades after a fight, instead of holding an unignited lightsaber, it should go to their belt, and hide underneath their cloak (if they are wearing one). When they make a lightsaber attack, it is automatically pulled from their belt. Same would be good for Pistoleer, as a kinda "quickdraw" thing. You make a pistol or lightsaber attack, and the weapon automatically ends up drawn. I've also seen "shoulder straps" around...maybe one of those on rifles and carbines, scabbards for one and two-handed swords, etc. It'd add an extra little flair of coolness to the game, and it means you can still attack unarmed without drawing your weapon. It just means that the weapon is out of your way. You'd probably need scabbard/holster items (in the belt and bandolier slots) to pull it off. Would be cool, though.
3. TEFs back on Jedi, but orientated towards Imperial. If some Imperial (PC or NPC) sees someone fighting with a Lightsaber, then of course they're gonna raise an alarm. Enter Stormtroopers, and other Players. If Jedi are going to be in as abundant numbers as they are, they need to be subdued. If Palpatine wants them dead, his Stormtroopers should be able to help.
4. In addition to Bounty Hunters, some NPC "hunters" should be added. Perhaps, when there is an alert to the presence of a Jedi near to a large, and Imperial-controlled city (Theed, Coronet, Bestine, and a few other cities on Coronet, Naboo and such), the Emperor could dispatch his personal guards to hunt the Jedi down. Maybe just two Guards in total. But, they are crack soldiers...the best in the game. They have no armour, like the Jedi (except for a helmet, that might guard against mind hits). They'll be about as tough a PvE adversary (in the shape of a person) that you can get. They carry Force Pikes (I believe), and would probably have a Master TK/Pikeman configuration.
5. Jedi should be given a "sanctuary" location. The temples on Yavin IV would be obvious choices. The one inhabited by Exar Khun (sp?) would be the Dark Jedi home, and then a different one would be for Light Jedi. They'd be like a guildhall for those Jedi, where they could train against fellow Jedi, be instructed by mentors, and be safe. There'd be a lot of Jedi NPCs around to deal with any Bounty Hunters.
6. For the safety of Jedi, more than anything else, they should only be able to Clone at "safe" locations...perhaps only in the temples. If they clone in a public area, there is a chance they might get camped on. If they return to Yavin, ok they have to get back to where they were, but at least they are far enough away from their attacker to be safe. It also makes sense - to ensure their clone was a Jedi also, they'd need special cloning centers...only clones produced by Jedi would have the Midichlorian count that a Jedi needs. It is not, contrary to some EU sources, the Jedi's "soul" that communicates with the Force. Whether you agree or not, its right there in technicolour in Ep 1. Other sanctuaries could be set up by Jedi on other planets (the Jedi Order would act as an extra PA, essentially), and added to a "Jedi Sanctuaries" list, and Rebel or Imperial PA's could have cloning facilities controlled by them added to the list. It'd just add to the underground feel of the Jedi, which they *should* have.
7. Jedi should gain access to the Jedi Starfighter (possibly Anakin's version from Clone Wars, with the Hyperdrive), and Dark Jedi it's equivalent (Vader's TIE, or the Sith Infiltrator, or something). It might work if it replaced thier standard fighter. A tad unfair, I know, but it would point out to other people when a Jedi fighter was around.
8. Not sure how it works right now, but a Jedi character should be a second character, and not take over from the primary account. They should start from scratch in the game, rather than an existing Jedi character spontaniously discovering he was a Jedi. Yes, its happened in EU, but it sucks, to be honest. A Jedi Padawan should be young. You shouldn't, as a Colonel in the Imperial Army (for example) be able to discover by accident that you are a Jedi. It just doesn't work like that. You'd know before then...or has the nature of Jedi changed so that it doesn't emerge until a certain point in your adult life? If an 8-year-old is "too old", then surely a 20-something-old is too.
9. Wanted lists. Works for Smugglers possibly, and maybe Bounty Hunters or Mercenaries or something like that. If you are a Jedi, or a Master Smuggler (read the description of the skills...you're supposed to be notorious), or whatever, and you are caught by an Imperial patrol (Stormtroopers, or perhaps a new "Security Patrol"), you get added to the wanted list. It can be accessed on the Imperial Mission Terminal. When you check the wanted list, it updates the list of known criminals that you are aware of. These show up differently on your Radar. Overt Rebels would also be on this list, and would show up differently. Any known people on the Wanted list would be attackable by you. It adds an extra level of "fear" regarding the Stormtroopers and Imperial Officers that wander around. An equivalent would be availiable on the Rebel Mission Terminals, with Overt Imperials, Dark Jedi (if aligned to the Empire), and of course Bounty Hunters. With some re-work, the Smuggler and Bounty Hunter (and Jedi) professions are potentially some of the most "dangerous" ones in the game, from the point of view of the Imperial government. They should be hunted down and killed...unless, of course, you have something for which you need to hire a Bounty Hunter or Smuggler. Knowing that they are there would help a lot. The only way to "loose" this listing on the Wanted list is to visit an Image Designer, or to wear one of the disguises I keep describing, as part of the new Smuggler skill-set.
Please don't hate me. I just think that right now, with the way they've been altered, and the whole nerfing armour thing (meaning we're pretty much screwed when an overt Rebel Jedi spots us as an over Imperial, or visa versa), Jedi are too powerful. They need nerfing, just like everything else has been in the game. There are too many Jedi right now, both from an "enjoyable PvP" point of view, and a "canon" point of view. Right now, all you're doing is encouraging more. We don't NEED more. We have too many as it is.
ShimAntillies
Sat Jul 03, 2004 9:22 am
#1506
I know this might be a little late in the game (pun intended) to bring this up, and I really, really hope this has been brought up already (sorry, there are nearly 1.7k posts already in this thread), but here goes.
In one fo the early EU books, just before Luke set up his Jedi Academy he consulted a holocron (see a use for all of those holo's), because each holocron contains (or is linked to I forget, I haven't read the book in a really, really longtime) the spirit of one or more Jedi Masters of the past. So my idea is that instead of a trainer, each jedi must conslt the blue glowie inside their holocron. Eventually, the dead master jedi will have nothing further to teach and the jedi, or prospective jedi, must acquire a new holocron. To add a bit of spice to this, some of the holocrons from the books contained the spirits of fallen or even dark jedi (the books, when I read them, didn't seem to differentiate between jedi and "sith" holo's), which will then plague the jedi with bad luck or diminished access to the force. To rid themselves of this mallignent jedi spirit, the jedi must perform some service or quest for the spirit or perform some kind of cleansing quest. Not every holocron a jedi acquires will be helpful, and not many will be harmful, some may just be cool eye-candy with a spirit to talk to about encouraging the growth of flowers with the force.
Just a few ideas for discussion, your milage may vary...
Daeyron
Sun Jul 04, 2004 8:19 pm
#1507
i agree with the previous post: for continuity reasons, holocrons should play a role here. in fact, i don't see why a holocron in one's inventory or datapad could not give jedi quests using basically the same code as the green droids that are now acquired when you learn a novice profession. this would also solve the "trainer camping" problem.
i would also like to see the training droid used by luke in the millenium falcon in episode iv. perhaps one quest could involve building said droid. a force senstive character might be asked to build all sorts of things, including his or her lightsaber crafting tool.
there should be some requirement that every jedi learn about the order's history, and this can be addressed through visits to historic jedi sites in the game world. because they are static sites (and hence campable), these quests should be at the not-yet-jedi level, perhaps in the process of acquiring (greater) force sensitivity.
just a few ramblings,
-dc
Nostaphos
Sun Jul 04, 2004 9:55 pm
#1508
I think the only thing that everyone can agree on is that thier is nothing we can all agree on when it comes to opening our "FS" slot to become a Jedi.. Its my humble opinion that no Single path will make everyone happy.. Some people want to grind kill..some want to "seek out" ..some want to manufacture..some whant to Find..
Looks to me like the only way we are going to make "most" people happy is by offering an alternate means to complete each level of training...Have certain fundamentals a must for all but offer options for each level of progression..This way no 2 jedi paths will be the same and we will have some say into how we would like to play the game..(this will give people a chance to excell and progress in what they consider to be a "fun" way..or just a "less evil" way.) =D
Variety is key ..lets not "force" anyone down a path they dont want to follow..lets have them choose thier path .