Development Cycle Archive

Thread: Jedi Punchlist Response 6/24/04

Tyreseus
Fri Jun 25, 2004 12:23 pm
#131




Thunderheart wrote:





I’m sorry, but this is not going to change.We’ve discussed this a lot and basically what you are asking is to have the ability to “drop the novice profession” to have more skill points to spend on elite profession skills. No profession has this ability. It would be like being able to surrender Novice Marksman Skills in order to have more points to spend on Pistoleer, Commando or any of the other elite professions that are built on top of the novice profession.







This is an incredibly frustrating response because you're using an analogy for your benefit here that does not work with how FS skills interact with the jedi "elite" skills. You equate the jedi community's request for removing FS skills at the knight stageas being similar to a pistoleer asking forthe novice marksmanskills to be removed, but you are ignoring the fact that the pistoleer's novicemarksman skillscontributes to the pistoleer's elite skills.


Just have things like "melee accuracy" and "melee speed" also be beneficial for jedi skills. Its not too much to ask. We're required to have these skills...so, why not just let themgive an actual benefit? Sticking your feet in the ground here and saying no is nothing less than unreasonable and incredibly frustrating.




Tyreseus
Fri Jun 25, 2004 12:29 pm
#132




Tyreseus wrote:





Thunderheart wrote:





I’m sorry, but this is not going to change.We’ve discussed this a lot and basically what you are asking is to have the ability to “drop the novice profession” to have more skill points to spend on elite profession skills. No profession has this ability. It would be like being able to surrender Novice Marksman Skills in order to have more points to spend on Pistoleer, Commando or any of the other elite professions that are built on top of the novice profession.







This is an incredibly frustrating response because you're using an analogy for your benefit here that does not work with how FS skills interact with the jedi "elite" skills. You equate the jedi community's request for removing FS skills at the knight stageas being similar to a pistoleer asking forthe novice marksmanskills to be removed, but you are ignoring the fact that the pistoleer's novicemarksman skillscontributes to the pistoleer's elite skills.


Just have things like "melee accuracy" and "melee speed" also be beneficial for jedi skills. Its not too much to ask. We're required to have these skills...so, why not just let themgive an actual benefit? Sticking your feet in the ground here and saying no is nothing less than unreasonable and incredibly frustrating.









Heh...saw your response TH, thanks for saying youll look into it.
IlyaMasool
Fri Jun 25, 2004 1:46 pm
#133




sce33 wrote:

Again, your making no argument. CM/Doc have to master medic which gives them med. use, schemeatics for every basic med there is. ect.. CM's master lvl4 ranged support why, because they are "ranged support characters". And if you do your math correctly there is nothin stoping a master CM/Doc for masterin the combat profession of their choise,


FS skills are an inittiaes novice skills, Padawan is a jedi novice skill (Rememebr Jedi are already Unlocked). Show me a direct benifit from FS skills!


"All you pointed out is that these skills give small benifits that are no longer used when you get past them. Just like most of the novice profession benifits TH pointed out."

Lets Examine that statement a little closer:



  • Brawler: Intimidate, there isn't a melee character that dosent make use of this skill even at Master elite melee professions. +speed mods, +damage mods, speicals for your chosen profession

  • Marksman: Again +speed/damage mods/specials, +defence mods

  • Scout: +terrian neg. +harvesting +camping +creature knowlege

  • Entertainer: +BF healing, +wound Healing

  • Medic: +med use, +crafting schematic and expermintaion, +wond healing, +healing speed

  • FS skills: Zero benifit to Jedi

Show me the benifit!



Okay let me see if I have this correctly.


CM need


Master Medic, which gives


Injury Treatment +100
Injury Treatment Speed +75
Medical Foraging +100
Medicine Assembly +50
Medicine Experimentation +50
Medicine Use +50
Wound Treatment +5


At Master CM they have


Burst Run Efficiency +10
Combat Medic Effectiveness +75
Combat Medicine Assembly +100
Combat Medicine Experimentation +125
Combat Medicine Use +100
Healing Range +100
Ranged Injury Treatment Speed +100
Terrain Negotiation +50


To me it seems that none of the skill stack.


Is there NO Benifit for CMfrom Medic or Marksman? No, there are small benifits, but none that CM would actually use usually.


You want any small benifit of FS?


Sure


Range Defense
Melee Defense
Vehicle Control
Experiment
Assembly
Repair


These are small but definate benifit. And there are the "unknowns"


Survival
Technique
Surveying
Persuasion
Luck


These are NO benifit to Jedi? or just not big enough to suit you? You rather not get these small benifit and instead use the 24 skill points correct?


You don't think that EVERY CM gladly give up whatever tiny benifit they get from Medic and marksman for the 106 ptsand use it somewhere else?


And you said it yourself about CM.


"CM's master lvl4 ranged support why, because they are "ranged support characters"."


Jedi need to master FS why? because they are "FORCE SENSITIVE CHARACTERS"


You are willing to accept CM taking useless Range Support because of what CM are, yet you cannot accept Jedi taking useless FS skills?

aibo220
Fri Jun 25, 2004 4:46 pm
#134




LordMaxx wrote:




aibo220 wrote:

All I'm seeing is....


Paying Subscriber with Jedi: Could we please get this with our Jedi as it makes better sense and would make playing Jedi that much more enjoyable.


Developer: Sorry no as we are too lazy to spend 5 minutes on that but have an entire month to devote to bringing the game down. (Actually we don't even get that good of a response, it's justa big rude NO)






All Im seeing is.....


Paying subscriber whiner with jedi: I want this! I want that! I want to be powerful! I want to solo everything and no one in PVP should stand up tome because on pg 49 of X Book it said blah di blah about Jedi doing TikNata moves and destroying worlds!


etc etc...Most elite professions have pre-req stuff that they just plain dont use. Plenty of examples have been shown I dont need to repeat them. And you guys just want more and more for your "time spent grinding professions I deserve X" What about my time spent? I mean Im sure Ive played as much as some Jedi...but I spent that time doing other things, but since you played this other part of the game you deserve to have a character that can kill my TKM with a look I see...


I do hope your robes give you some more protection. And I do hope the crystal drop rate is good and sufficient enough that you dont spend too much time hunting crystals. But please cut back on the hate posts about how they are screwing you over etc etc....Learn to play the system your given. If they arent giving you absolute power its not because they are ignoring the "people" its probably because its a stupid request in the first place. And if everything is not perfect well Ill be glad to take your subscription if you dont want it any more...I could use a jedi alt to play on the weekends maybe....


Some of you folks may not end up being the best warriors on your servers like you want, but you always be the king of whine to me






Excuse me... You have everything entirely wrong.


Just because I have a Jedi does not mean I don't have a rifleman/doctor who I never play with, because I do have a rifleman/doctor I play with. I also have a ID who is mastering musician that I play with. I also have a WS/Tailor/Artisan who I used to play with but I got bored of because crafting calls for too much commitment. So the heck are you talking about?


IMO Jedi should be yanked from the game entirely as the "Developers" obviosuly can't get it right. And even if they could, I would prefer them work on the rest of the game first as it is much more important then Jedi. I hate rifleman and would rather bea pistoller, but compared to Rifleman and every melee class pistoller is a joke.


I also have alot of clothes I would like to wear but they don't fit right.


I also visits planets that look just like the last one with nothing to do because there is a lack of content.


I would much rather have the "developers" spend their time on these areas of the game then this Jedi.


I unlocked in early January but never played my Jedi. The only reason I'm playing my Jedi now is that it seems to be all this game is about lately. In fear of being left out of SWG entirely I have began to play with my Jedi again.


And I'm not talking about Jedi's being "uber" but about the little things we ask for and the "Developers" right away shoot us down. Like crafting stations, the robes color and all those little minor tweaks inbetween that the "Developers" are just too lazy to even think about.


And as for Jedi in general... They should either be extremely "uber" but face harsh consequences upon death or they should be nothing special and face 0 consequences.



"What a piece of 5|-|17 I returned to." [ Tiphini ]
/cough "Damn book." /cough

iskareot
Fri Jun 25, 2004 4:49 pm
#135




ArjunThakur wrote:

And thank you for bringing up the fact our Force Sensitive skills do not carry into our Jedi tree, that's our biggest problem with having to spend 24 points there, we just want our "Novice" profession to give us our novice benefits.






W T F , ok I am just a low level jedi 4223 -- NOW THEN YOU MEAN TO TELL ME THOSE FORCE ENHANCED SKILLS WE CHOOSE DO NOTHING TOWARD THE JEDI?...... SOrry for being slow here but that is the most **edit**ed up thing I have seen all day, I actully thought those things helped-- why are we even having to use them then?



Ok DEVS This one is a good one, lol they dont help jedi , yet we have to use them HMMMMMM whos idea was this one?



ITS BAD... lets fix this one please... good grief





__________________________________________________________________
In the context of new development methods adopted within the past year by the studio responsible for Star Wars Galaxies, which a year ago saw several drastic changes to the game-world's overall experience, SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes."
JelyDoughnut
Fri Jun 25, 2004 5:03 pm
#136
If Tk is supposed to be the Jedi killer, then why cant we get 90% resists to kinetic like every other novice out there????



"The game is going to explode with goodness " - Thunderheart
"Both accounts canceled, 7/15/04" - Jellydoughnut
ThanGhil
Fri Jun 25, 2004 5:27 pm
#137




sce33 wrote:

Again, your making no argument. CM/Doc have to master medic which gives them med. use, schemeatics for every basic med there is. ect.. CM's master lvl4 ranged support why, because they are "ranged support characters". And if you do your math correctly there is nothin stoping a master CM/Doc for masterin the combat profession of their choise,




Except for any melee profession then ofcourse



"Thats what your uncle told you"
Ihareo
Fri Jun 25, 2004 8:31 pm
#138
Ability to drop the Force Sensitive Skills once we hit Jedi Knight.

I’m sorry, but this is not going to change. We’ve discussed this a lot and basically what you are asking is to have the ability to “drop the novice profession” to have more skill points to spend on elite profession skills. No profession has this ability. It would be like being able to surrender Novice Marksman Skills in order to have more points to spend on Pistoleer, Commando or any of the other elite professions that are built on top of the novice profession.


I thought we could drop and learn FS skills as long as we kept 24, what would be the problem with that?




Ihareo Imtame--Adept of the Force
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sce33
Sat Jun 26, 2004 12:01 am
#139




IlyaMasool wrote:


All you pointed out is that these skills give small benifits that are no longer used when you get past them. Just like most of the novice profession benifits TH pointed out.


The talk about novice profession is not null because it was an analogy. He wasn't saying that these FS skills are Jedi's novice profession, he is trying to convey the concept where you go past the skill which is no longer all that much significant to you but you cannot drop them and reclaim the points to use it on something more useful.


CM must have master medic. Medic only give doctor skills which CM no longer use. They also must take marksman. There is NOTHING in medic or marksman skills that any CM wouldn't drop in a heart beat and put it into say, TKM.


I am sure that Dev are all impressed by the 6x the xp you put into Jedi compare to other profession. I am sure they will give medal to everyone who got a Jedi if they can, but they are kidna busy.


What that tells Dev tho' is that you invested a heck of long time into your Jedi. And it is 6x more unlikely that you will drop your jedi or cancel just because your FS skill give you +5 to Terrain nevigation instead of +15.




Again, your making no argument. CM/Doc have to master medic which gives them med. use, schemeatics for every basic med there is. ect.. CM's master lvl4 ranged support why, because they are "ranged support characters". And if you do your math correctly there is nothin stoping a master CM/Doc for masterin the combat profession of their choise,


FS skills are an inittiaes novice skills, Padawan is a jedi novice skill (Rememebr Jedi are already Unlocked). Show me a direct benifit from FS skills!


"All you pointed out is that these skills give small benifits that are no longer used when you get past them. Just like most of the novice profession benifits TH pointed out."

Lets Examine that statement a little closer:



  • Brawler: Intimidate, there isn't a melee character that dosent make use of this skill even at Master elite melee professions. +speed mods, +damage mods, speicals for your chosen profession

  • Marksman: Again +speed/damage mods/specials, +defence mods

  • Scout: +terrian neg. +harvesting +camping +creature knowlege

  • Entertainer: +BF healing, +wound Healing

  • Medic: +med use, +crafting schematic and expermintaion, +wond healing, +healing speed

  • FS skills: Zero benifit to Jedi

Show me the benifit!







Dark Lord Odium
-SITH-
Hate, Fear and Anger are my Ally
Shiva420
Sun Jun 27, 2004 3:22 am
#140





Thunderheart wrote:




Please fix the double death penalty (losing 2 deaths on disconnect+killed)This happens with some regularity and is really going to hurt people if they are losing XP each death pre-knight.



Fixed.The penalty is only calculated on cloning now.





FIXED?! this is only going to lead to more trouble /exploits, not to mention it is at the cost of BHs and anyone trying to hunt down a jedi.

have the devs considered why this happens "with some regularity"?? - its because of jedis who log out as soon as they see a teal dot in an attempt to prevent 1)what could be an approching bh, or whoever from killing them. 2)while fighting they lose enough ham to know they are going to lose the fight- then they disconnect in attempt to make the DB not count.if they get 2 deaths from

-purposefully- disconnecting so be it! this is an exploit.. SOOO your going to nerf bh because of jedis exploiting... which is what causes the 2 deaths almost 99% of the time...


the death should count on DB


fix the core problem that makes the double death penalty on disconnect possibal!!!

thats what they asked for! they did not ask for it to be calculated on clone!!!!!!!!

listen to the people if you are going to ask for their opinions!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Message Edited by Shiva420 on 06-27-2004 06:24 AM



* Leah-Enlil *
account cancelled... ironicaly it ended exactly 1 year after it was purchased.july 25th.
pushing back the combat rebalance- and not fixing a core game system is the worst idea soe ever conceived.
- still hoping the dev team will get replaced and the game i once loved will get fixed. fix the core game, and problems.stop nerfing everything thats fun. stop doing things noone in the player community asked for!! listen to your customers damnit!!!
WarlordRhawn
Mon Jun 28, 2004 4:00 pm
#141








LordMaxx wrote:

All Im seeing is.....

Paying subscriber whiner with jedi: I want this! I want that! I want to be powerful! I want to solo everything and no one in PVP should stand up tome because on pg 49 of X Book it said blah di blah about Jedi doing TikNata moves and destroying worlds!





And all I am seeing is a payed subscriber being an @$$. What have you done that is so great in your whole time in being in galaxies? I know what Tiphini has done and its more than you will ever accomplish. She speaks for alot of us, myself included. She is one of the people who has earned a right to complain, for she had to work to unlock her slot, what is your excuse, not for not unlocking but for exposing your idiotic opinion.






LordMaxx wrote:


All Im seeing

etc etc...Most elite professions have pre-req stuff that they just plain dont use. Plenty of examples have been shown I dont need to repeat them. And you guys just want more and more for your "time spent grinding professions I deserve X" What about my time spent? I mean Im sure Ive played as much as some Jedi...but I spent that time doing other things, but since you played this other part of the game you deserve to have a character that can kill my TKM with a look I see...





Have you an elite profession with useless skills, maybe you do. Simple fact of the matter is though I can level from novice brawler to master TKA in 2 days w/o hardcore playing. There is no work in what your have accomplished, there is very lttle skill either. Whereas a Jedi first has to qualify buy unlocking his slot, then a Jedi must poor through millions of combat xp renamed to Jedi xp, and THEN they have to do this without dieing while staying off the boards.


You may have played as much as they have, but that isn't the issue. You have not accomplished what they have and that is the issue. What they have done to jedi is the equivilent of me taking your meditate line from tka and putting it in Bounty Hunter Investigation line followed by taking your defenses and putting them in the Sampling line of BE. Your talking apples and oranges here.






LordMaxx wrote:


I do hope your robes give you some more protection. And I do hope the crystal drop rate is good and sufficient enough that you dont spend too much time hunting crystals. But please cut back on the hate posts about how they are screwing you over etc etc....Learn to play the system your given. If they arent giving you absolute power its not because they are ignoring the "people" its probably because its a stupid request in the first place. And if everything is not perfect well Ill be glad to take your subscription if you dont want it any more...I could use a jedi alt to play on the weekends maybe....


Some of you folks may not end up being the best warriors on your servers like you want, but you always be the king of whine to me





I hope you can come to terms with the fact that Tiphini has accomplished more than you have. I hope you never have to go through the devs in the coming combat rebalance splitting your profession into 5 trees. I hope that you don't have to deal with the frustration of having an entire "novice" line that is completely useless to you. I hope your never have to go through a series of revisionist lies, that the devs including thunderheart has given us only to have those hollow promises revealed as lies in the implimentation. Then and only thenwould you have a glimpse of what the Jedi players are so angry about.


While we may be the king of whine to you, your are the Emperor of stupidity to me.





Natanial Storm

Message Edited by WarlordRhawn on 06-28-2004 04:30 PM




NatanialStormTRGA

Master Bounty HunterMaster Carabineer

32 Professions completed, RIS made, Next up: Mandelorian Armor

SemiRetired, but loving the NGE



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Odin20
Thu Jul 01, 2004 2:51 am
#142
New thread means old ones may be ignored so I'll just re post my thoughs on opening the character slot.


Becoming force sensative after doing certain quests in publish 10 will open a new slot..as I understand it. After doing this your new character will be just like every new character and if you want that character to be your Jedi instead of scrapping your long devoloped main character means building up your new character to a strong enough position to complete the quests, which means not only doing the quests again, but spending the time to get to the point where you can do the qeusts.


Some of us really enjoy our main character and don't want to have to give up our proffesion or, in my case, our pets. As it is one person, with one account, could have 2 Jedi, which I don't think is a great idea. I really think the best idea would be for us to be given a choice--Either your main becomes the Jedi, or your new slot starts out force sensative.



Koam Mattauk, Tatooine, Lowca

*sig edited by admin*
Ageta
Mon Jul 05, 2004 1:14 am
#143

Jedi Quest


I find it difficult to believe that a quest system will actually take longer then hologrinding and the additional grinding of all the professions. I have talked to jedi on my serve and they spoke of many many months of grinding. Im sure im not the only one excited to try this new system but month after month doing these quest until that one day you finally unlock a new character and your main becomes FS. I think the new character should become force sensative. As in recent post, we wouldnt want to loose our professions, pets, etc. I can't wait for punblish 10, keep up the good work.!

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