Development Cycle Archive
Thread: Great Expectations, Major Schedule Changes and making SWG the finest MMORPG ever
BlindTyldak
Fri Jul 16, 2004 2:03 pm
#1379
DakkTunon wrote:
Oh, and by the way in case you haven't noticed, they have had the cojones to post this but not respond to any of our major concerns. So, yet again, Jedi get bumped ahead in lime and we all sit back and are told to "Wait for the combat rebalance." I bet that post was put up just so that this one wouldn't show up first!
Message Edited by DakkTunon on 07-16-2004 03:55 PM
I saw that . . . thanks for proving I did the right thing. Freaking morons.
MisterWizard
Fri Jul 16, 2004 2:04 pm
#1380
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=917642&page=&view=&sb=5&o=&fpart=1&vc=1
Some of my favorite comments/quotes in it:
- I'm fighting womp rats? Animals? I'm an EXTERMINATOR?
- Lets not forget jedi, the class that well most likely destroy SWG. Right when the Devs released hints on how to become jedi thats all people did, no one teamed to hunt, pvp was nearly dead since no one cared anymore, and the economy on some servers was destroyed. I dont want to get into the other jedi bs, its just to stupid
- But for funnzies, I'll log onto SWG Stratics.com at least once a week, just to see what promises the devs at SOE have screwed up or broken lately. It never fails... you can literally see them retract/rationalize something from week to week. Sad.
- For some unknown reason the first profession they chose to tweak was the Jedi system. Nevermind the fact that 90% of their customer base haven't unlocked a Jedi slot.... In the meantime, signature Star Wars professions like Bountyhunter and Smuggler have been broken since launch...
- The thing about SWG is that many are RABID Star Wars fans and while they will complain and wimper, they will never leave the game.
- I did enjoy slaughtering countless millions of jawas though.
- "Star Wars: Galaxies" is arguably the only thing in the entire Star Wars franchise that's worse than the prequels.
- If these rabid Star Wars fans will keep playing this piece of junk, I wonder what the Trekies would do? Let's make Star Trek Worlds!!!!
- If blasters are 1000's of years more advanced than todays pistols, then why does it take 10 shots to kill a glorified rat?
- I'm just not sure why they think they need to do this. They already have the largest freaking MMORPG out there, just keep that going and make the game better for the existing people that have been playing (and paying) for WELL OVER A YEAR rather than try to attract every freaking gamer out there. This game can't be a Jedi hack and slash, RPG game, PVP game, flight sim game, crafting game, etc etc etc. Just stick to the core and DO IT WELL. Learn to freaking focus your resources. They have the largest freaking niche out there (Star Wars geeks like myself) and are completely blowing their chance by trying to be The Game That Does It All.
- Sometimes, simplicity is far more elegant and beautiful than complexity.
- SWG devs, on the other hand, have done an awful lot to ensure that their players do NOT give them the benefit of the doubt.
- The BH missions are even worse. No matter what the “story line” it always boils down to one dude standing in the middle of nowhere, usually far away and alone.
- When I first heard about it being made and read what the were going to do, I was eager. When I played, I felt like I just opened a bra filled with water ballons.
- Combat in SWG is flawed. The Devs admit it. But they're also pushing back the Combat balance so they can roll out a new product after saying for months and months "Wait for the combat balance"
- For the first week or so I could actually travel around like a real musician and meet up with other bands on different planets. People actually chered and enjoyed performances. Musicians knew each other and could learn to anticipate how each other played. Macroing killed that part for me. And without that it became a boring level grind.
- I tried being a crafting class. Made a master armorsmith. It was a second job practically.
- SOE Must be trying to run SWG out of business. I can't believe JTL is coming before the CB. I guess I don't really care though, I quit that nightmare last October.
- SWG fills a much needed gap.
- Most people use toilet paper in that gap
But my favorite is...
- The only one that could stay, would be the ones who got strong friends they play with on there, and thats it.
Don't get me wrong.. I want to love SWG... I did not play any other MMORPGs before SWG, and today I only dabble in CoH (which does one thing but does it very well), so I can't tell if this experience is similar to the experience in other MMORPGs... but if it is, I'm scared...
Most likely SWG will keep me until JtL, but that's the make or break point. Sadly, I play other games more every day, and play SWG less. I'm sure I'm not alone...
Jhyson-Bria
Fri Jul 16, 2004 2:07 pm
#1381
DakkTunon wrote:
Oh, and by the way in case you haven't noticed, they have had the cojones to post this but not respond to any of our major concerns. So, yet again, Jedi get bumped ahead in lime and we all sit back and are told to "Wait for the combat rebalance." I bet that post was put up just so that this one wouldn't show up first!
Message Edited by DakkTunon on 07-16-200403:55 PM
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In Development: The Village of Aurillia
“I don’t know. You can’t see the stars here.” Paemos complained.
“You can’t see the stars anywhere on this planet, can you? I mean with the trees and the clouds…”
Noldan stopped speaking and turned his head towards the elder, Rohak. Rohak knelt down to the ground and lifted a handful of dirt to his face. He breathed in deeply, relishing the smell.
“It’s good here. Green. Life.”
The others nodded their heads in agreement. The three men stood and looked at each other for only a moment before Rohak spoke again.
“This is where we shall begin.
The Village of Aurilia. The dream becomes reality…”
The hidden village of Aurilia (Ah-ree-lee-ah) was formed on a planet in the outer rim, near the Meridian Sector by a small group of like-minded Force sensitive refugees who had, for one reason or another, abandoned their old lives. They all possessed strange knacks for piloting, healing, combat or some other special ability in tune with the Force making them dangerous to the Emperor, and the rumors of a Sith Lord who held a high power amongst the Imperials.
Many of them were hunted by viscous agents of the Empire and also had dealings with the Jedi council. Some were brought forward to the Council in the old days by Jedi warriors after discovering their natural abilities while others sought out the Jedi, hoping to be trained or at least given some explanation for these strange gifts that made other people look upon them with fear or trepidation.
All of them were turned away from official Jedi training for various reasons: political ramifications, age, some did not display the qualities of a Jedi knight, and other personal reasons. This village has stood undisturbed for many, many years with the people there, living a rustic and agricultural life. They bother no one, trade with no one, and cause no trouble for the Empire, the Rebellion, or any of the various criminal organizations that exist throughout the galaxy. In this, they have hidden themselves in plain sight. They don’t do anything to actively discourage anyone from finding them, which in itself keeps them off the radar of most governments.
Though they have no formal training many of them have become quite confident in their abilities, and they have no qualms about teaching what they’ve learned to anyone who is willing to listen.
This is where you will begin your journey.
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Creating a way for players to experience a mysterious but not impossibly hidden path from being “normal” to Force Sensitivity is a difficult task. Ultimately, it must be a story driven path that doesn’t go counter to the Star Wars experience, while also bending continuity in the game so that the MMO game experience can deliver a play experience that is satisfying and fun for those that do want to seek out Force Sensitivity.
Without revealing the exact path to Force sensitivity, let it be said that it is not hidden in the way that the Holocron/Professions system was hidden. The path to Force Sensitivity has underlying mechanics, but essentially it is to just play the game. It is definitely achievable, but mysterious and unknown. We don’t want people to grind anymore, so ticking off master professions will cease to be part of the equation. We may or may not reveal more as time goes on. It depends on how the flow of players through the system goes. (If too many players are pushed through the system, we may have to make additional changes based on technological needs, but if we do that, we will let you know in advance). It may not be long before you are visited by a mysterious stranger. It will be a very short time before the path is revealed and generally known amongst the players. Once players are on the right path they will be welcomed to the village with open arms, and will be given the training they need to understand how their Force Sensitivity works.
This place is the Village of Aurilia. It is a place where a group of Force Sensitive characters have gone to have some privacy and solitude in their lives. With the Empire slaying all the Jedi it can find, Bounty Hunters tracking them for profits and shunned by galactic citizens, these sentient beings needed a refuge. This village is that refuge. The player experience is one where they too can be a character that has these abilities and is seeking both help to understand their abilities and become part of this story. The village has heroic NPC’s, rogues and enemies. There are different stories a player may pursue and different Force Sensitivities that they can develop to make their character somewhat unique.
As players use their characters to play through the Force Sensitive training, their powers will grow and they will choose their Force Sensitivities using the existing skill system by completing quests and then purchasing them with experience and skill points. An exciting new feature about this part of the process will be a new “Quest Journal”. Players will have a new user interface that will help them track the progress of their questing and also give them fictional descriptions and important information in the quest journal.
When players finish their Force Sensitivity training, they may choose to either remain simply an FS character or go on to Padawan training.
•Do you like the idea of the Village of Aurilia?
•Do you like the idea of adding a quest journal?
Kurt "Thunderheart" Stangl
Community Relations Manager
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This is a direct cut and paste from that thread to make the reading easier. And yes, now I'm REALLY riled!
Keatsnam
Fri Jul 16, 2004 2:11 pm
#1382
With all due respect, why release a expansion pack before fixing problems already existing within the game?
TH wrote:I would start with "With all due respect", but you used it =P, soin short and with respect, this isn't "just an expansion". This is Space. Space is something that everyone wanted at launch and Space is needed to create the Star Wars experience.The other side of that is that JTL has been in production since January. We can't delaysix and half months of work for something that really makes Star Wars what it is.
I know you guys are excited about what JTL has to offer, but you can't discount what this person wrote. Sure it's great we'll be able to fly through space, and I am extremely looking forward to JTL. But one way or another, it IS an expansion pack. The SWG box didn't say anything about space. I bought it for what it claimed the SWG experience would provide and it should have worked as intended. SOE should have authorized hiring the workforce needed to produce JTL without compromising the CORE game that many of us have invested around $200 bucks in.
The devs have my sympathy. I think they work very hard and have made huge strides in improving the game experience. I am guessing that the current game is probably close to what the devs actually intended the game would look like when the public saw it; assuming they had never received the scrotum-shrinking "Ship In 2 Weeks Or Else" phone call. However, one year out of the gate, things that were broken before launch STILL don't work. And I think that shows what SOE thinks of its customers. What other manufacturers have the cojones to charge $200 for something that doesn't work and then ask people to spend another $29.99 for an accessory?
Message Edited by Keatsnam on 07-16-2004 02:14 PM
Kyreal
Fri Jul 16, 2004 2:13 pm
#1383
stupid forum bug pls delete thx
Message Edited by Kyreal on 07-16-2004 04:23 PM
Genn-great-Genn
Fri Jul 16, 2004 2:17 pm
#1384
I think maybe 25% of all the people playing swg quit after reading this.
And I'm not far from being one of them.
Kyreal
Fri Jul 16, 2004 2:22 pm
#1385
and the prophesy comes to pass......
when i first heard about the "jedi" profession actually being attainable in this game, i told my guildmates that if they allowed jedi to be "playable" it would kill this game as sure as a hunter can put a bullet into a deer.
it wasnt very worriesome until the devs gave the populace the "hints" they needed thru the use of holocrons...... when they did this, the game went completely downhill fast, starting with the unbalancing of the economy as the "hologrinders" flooded the market with items, resources etc.
the great thing this game offered when i first joined was that i didnt have to be a stereotyped profession, or do a stereotyped plan of action to have fun, now? thats long gone, the devs are going to force you to do jedi or cease being a viable character in the game. well personally i think thats crap, the game has turned to crap and the devs and their team are the only ones to blame for their stupidity in allowing jedi into this game.
jedi cannot be balanced in our current system, they will be game-breaking whatever you try to do, they should have left jedi as an NPC content not player playable.
now as for other issues, the combat system is not as broke as people think it is, a few fixes and things could be very playable again.
1. buffs are the most glaring problem atm, they overpower a player 2 much and make some professions useless.
Fix - doctor/entertainer buffscapped at 500-750 max on stats with duration of only 2h max
chef foods capped at 20min max duration
2. armor
Fix- with the lowering of buffs, the armor should take care of itself, with armorsmiths having to compensate by experimenting on ham costs so that the player can use the armor, the resists will fall accordingly.
3. weapons
Fix- same as #2 you will have lower damage weapons in the overall.
4. Poisons/Diseases in pvp
Fix - 75 percent reduction on the damage dealt to coincide with the current pvp system.
you would be surprisedby just doing the 4 above would improve gameplay imho.
mynutsman
Fri Jul 16, 2004 2:23 pm
#1386
This news is very troubling. I know that people who work for computer companies are considered to be slackers, but you are all still working for a company.
If I told my investors that a project was underway, I would have to give them an estimated date of completion, and if that deadline came and went, I am sure the project would be scrapped, or I would be out of business.
It might be easier for everyone involved if there are just no more announcements about any upcoming changes. That way you will not dissapoint your clients. Because that is what all the players are, clients.
Even after my little rant, I admit I will keep playing, but I can no longer recommend your game to anyone. It is only my love of the idea of Star Wars that will get me through.
Please just stop saying what is supposedly going to be happenening. Surprise people a week before it hits Test Center. It will be much easier on everyone.
Roeding
Fri Jul 16, 2004 2:27 pm
#1387
I have completely lost faith in the devs at this point. I've been around since beta 3 butI'mquite fed up with their incompetence by now and fail to see any future for this game.And TH, sorry but somehow i just find it difficultto believe anything you say any more. "finest MMORP ever" not much chance of that I'm afraid.
Ramalama
Fri Jul 16, 2004 2:30 pm
#1388
TH,
Firstly, I hope you get to actually read this because it appears to be a full time job just reading the responses on this thread. I think you've done a great job disseminating the information you do receive from development, but at this point I feel like I'm listening to a press secretary for a crooked administration.
I hope you find my comments to be constructive criticism that you can take back to the developers.
(1) Being a jedi is NOT a big part of Star Wars Galaxies. SOE all along has said that jedi should be rare and has done their best to make it so. The fact that their efforts were not effective enough should not change their position. That said, it is still a a very small percentage of the population that actually gets to "be a jedi".SOE hasspent 80% of the development this year on 2% ofthe population.
(3) Massively multiplayer games need massively multiplayer battles. Large scale PvP in SWG is pathetic and I feel bad for those that participate. I have played with the most experienced PvPers on my server and it inevitably consists of an hour to get a group together because of lack of interest, then another hour waiting for opponents to show up (all undeclared ready to tef at any moment), and then a brief battle. Give us a hill, and we will play king of the hill. Give us a GCW battlefield and we will have a civil war. It doesn't have to be great... don'tnecessarily have to touch the combat classes, let people build more appropriate templates for pre-CB battles, heck they'll have plenty of time to use them.
It seems that SOE is quite shrewd with its marketing (hence the jedi/jtl focus), but they are missing the point. If we don't have good PvP this game has nothing to offer. Which brings up my other point.
(4) PvE is about Loot! Finding stuff is fun! I would rather play Moria than SWG for PvE because it's fun to find a cool item. Make every cool item a schematic and make it only craftable, and heck, make it last for only a day, but give me something to find!
(5) Since when is the new jedi path going to be mysterious?!? This was the biggest question we gamers asked and received a clear answer from JustG. The path to jedi would be predetermined and known to the player. It would take a life and a half to do it but there would BE NO MYSTERY!
(6) JTL is a different product from the one I play that to date does not have one copy sold. Support the product that has brought in millions of dollars already or pay the price from your consumers.
Thank you for giving me an idea of what isto come so that I can make an informed decision on whether it is worth it to play or not.
Regards,
Ramalama
Ahazi TKM/Rifleman (and I was worried about the nerf!)
twiafu
Fri Jul 16, 2004 2:33 pm
#1389
This place is the Village of Aurilia. It is a place where a group of Force Sensitive characters have gone to have some privacy and solitude in their lives. With the Empire slaying all the Jedi it can find, Bounty Hunters tracking them for profits and shunned by galactic citizens, these sentient beings needed a refuge. This village is that refuge. The player experience is one where they too can be a character that has these abilities and is seeking both help to understand their abilities and become part of this story. The village has heroic NPC’s, rogues and enemies. There are different stories a player may pursue and different Force Sensitivities that they can develop to make their character somewhat unique.
That one sentance.....
Empire killing all the Jedi it can find?
Shunned by citizens?
Are they playing the same game we are???
Xziac
Fri Jul 16, 2004 2:33 pm
#1390
This game HAD great potential. Too bad it was just managed badly... Still, I was able once to feel the Star Wars Universin it, and what a great time I had!
DakkTunon
Fri Jul 16, 2004 2:37 pm
#1391
From the GCW forum:
JEST3R wrote:
In light of recent events, I figured now is a good time to inform you of something in the works.
The correspondents are pushing steadily for fixes now to specific aspects of various key broken systems now, myself included. they range from all of our most vocally discussed things.
the nugget of good news I just wish to drop off is that SOE agrees and cares, and in an effort to help better communicate your concerns SOE is coordinating and funding a Correspondent Summit.
This is so I and other correspondents can verbally and in person express the extreme importance of some of our communities top priority issues that must be addressed sooner rather then later.
Debate as to when is still being nailed down but soon, such as august seems the tentative time frame. I see this as a direct positive step on the part of SOE taking the players concerns more seriously then before, they are investing money into the effort after all and making the concerted effort to make sure we have face to face interaction.
JEST3R
SOE, too little too late. I hope you enjoy your "Going Out Of Business" party with the correspondents. I really do.