Development Cycle Archive

Thread: Jedi Punchlist Feedback

KyleKnox
Tue Jun 22, 2004 7:54 pm
#118

Excellent points Wengel - they just dont get it. We started with 5 issues - that ballooned to 11 - which has ballooned to 30. We must have armour or robe resists. I honestly just cant believe this one. That and the lack of skill points.



Dyvim Storm - Eclipse
PrePatch9 4444 Guardian
Force Master
VoodooExtreme
Tue Jun 22, 2004 7:55 pm
#119








Thunderheart wrote:


The Jedi Correspondent has distilled a lot of the feedback and produced a Punchlist.The team thought it was a pretty good list and I liked the community mechanics, so between now and the publish; we will update you on this Punchlist.



Please post your Feedback!



If you can, please include in the header of your post which category your feedback pertains to such as:



  • Jedi Powers

  • Crystal Drop Rates


  • Jedi and Combat

  • Lightsaber Crafting

  • Jedi Conversion Process

  • Etc.


Thanks very much









B. The immense amount of negative XP that will happen in PVP will not gate you from retraining.



Experience loss has been changed back and forth a bit. There has to be some death penalty associated with PvP deaths because of the inherent power level of Jedi and also to prevent Jedi from selling their deaths to Bounty Hunters. Without a penalty, it leaves the possibility of a “Death-credit” loop.



However, we are going to remove XP loss for Force Ranked Jedi when they fight each other because it is required to gain rank.




Are you saying that Jedi are powerful for the sake of it? Initiates who start out have nothing in the way of defending themselves. No matter how hard theytry to stay in seclusion, their names will appear on those terminals one way or another. I suggest a minimum bottom for nexgative XP for different power levels of Jedi. Initiates get -50K maximum, Knights get -400K max, etc.







Melee mitigation is going away for PvP for everyone very soon.We are evaluating alternate ways to make the Defense Tree more desirable.



And what exactly are you going to do? It's funny. Someone said that a Jedi should be learned in the arts of both defense and offense. He further said that it would look strange for a Jedi to be able to block all laser shots but can't kill a gnort. Or a Jedi who can hit a gnort but can't deflect a simple shot from a Novice Marksman. The community has suggested that the defense tree be removed and the defense mods be sprinkled amongst the other trees. This wouldallow Jedi to have a good balance between defensive and offensive capabilites and allow for greater diversity.






This is extremely unbalancing and not a viable course of action. However, meditating is part of what it means to be a Jedi and we are looking into adding meditation emotes for Jedi after this publish goes out.



You have not yet explained why it is unbalancing.Since it cannot be used while in combat, and the only time it's used is when a Jedi needs to regenerate. I don't see how that may be. Some clarification would be most helpful.







This is true for all animations across the board. Animations use a sequencing logic and this case is definitely possible with the level of animation detail in this game. This specific animation logic is something that cannot be changed.



Yet another questionunanswered. How are you going to fix this? The only way I know is to be on the move while initiating force powers.





The animations and extra graphics for this are done, but the design and programming is going to push this feature out. We are looking into the balance implications of allowing the ability to actually reflect ranged weapon damage back on your opponents. This is something we are seriously considering, but it will not happen for this publish.



Yes. I'd like this. I'd like a Commando's flame dot to be deflected back at him or a Rifleman's Strafe shot reflected back at him if it's possible.




16. Move Forcerun1 to Novice Enhancer, it really only adds some terrain negotiation and its silly that Jedi have none to begin with.



No. Jedi have a 50% run increase which helps with this and Jedi can choose terrain negotiation skills along the way if they choose.



Alljedi should start out with the most basic of skills.The art of healing shouldbeone of the most basic skills an initiate would have learnt.





No. This is considered a powerful, earned power and not a novice level skill.



Same as the above.






Example: melee accuracy, melee speed, Healing skills, assembly, healing speed....none of these affect Jedi skills at all yet we are forced to learn them.



Yes, they are. Basically, this is 20/20 hindsight and a by-product of the conversion. As a character moves through the Jedi process on a normal progression, Force Sensitivity skills are basic enhancements for “regular” characters to simulate Force Sensitivity. At that point, they are great to have. Once a character becomes a Jedi, they have already moved past those skills and in effect developed their Force powers from sensitivities into full blown powers. In essence, you have all moved past this point but everyone will have to go through this phase in the future.



So what exactly are you going to do about this?





With the addition of Force Pool and Force Regen to the Padwan Robe along with increased Force in the skill tree we have already significantly boosted the lower end game. No longer is a lower end Jedi limited to 600 Force and 5 regen. Coupling this with the addition of higher end saber specials sooner, we have in fact greatly enhanced the leveling potential of the lower end Jedi.



With no armor robes that provide no protection. I don't see how this is the case.






Jedi are not being designed to be the perfect solo character that can defend against all other classes. Jedi are not “scrappers” and by definition, Teras Kasi was developed specifically to fight Jedi at close range.This will be especially true when Jedi are given the ability to block ranged attacks back at their opponents. Melee attacks are something the Jedi should be wary of.



So,I, a TKM hit a Saber with my fist, my hand goes right through it and hits theJedi?





Long standing bug that also effects other professions defense modifiers.



We are investigating this bug.



Yes, all that ranged block and melee block, toughness and all that don't mean a thing if it cannot block a state shot.





This may be, but it's a reality of the engine. We are currently investigating giving the robes themselves backpack functionality because Jedi are always pulling neat stuff out of their robes, but it will not happen with this publish.


I see. So you are removing the ability to carry a backpack but will not provide an alternative until a later date? Great. This should not be the case. Remove the backpack and then provide the alternative at the same time. Not next month or next year or some other time.







So sabers are still better? Thanks for the clarification.







Hooded cloaks (as with all wearables in the game) are far more work intensive and very time consuming to produce than they appear to be. Huge actually. It’s not 1 cloak or 2 cloaks, but somewhere around 120cloaks would have to be produced internally for all Jedi robes to have hoods in the game.Here’s how it breaks down: There are currently 31 unique Jedi Robe Models. For each of those to be hooded, there needs to be a special version for Wookiees, Twilek and Mon Cal’s because of their heads and a version for the rest of the species, except for Trandos which get a special versionbecause oftheir feet. The time and manpower to create 120 cloaks isn't available at this time. We want and will do this in the future, but it is just not possible right now.



It's not nice to tease and not deliver.
















When atemplate has been discovered and tested, nobody will be different anymore anyway.





There are a couple of points to consider.There are community resources to help find and identify these resources and also to purchase them on the open market.The other concern to consider is that Culsion is only required in 3rd and 4th generation.As far as the challenge of crafting the saber goes, this is the nature of the crafting system. More advanced components require the rare specific resources. We can see that all servers have had a spawn of this material within a reasonable time frame.








JelyDoughnut
Tue Jun 22, 2004 7:59 pm
#120

Jedi Powers:


1) If you use burstrun while force running you actually slow down??


2) Forceresiststates, bleeds, poisons, bleeds have been tested:


Knightvs Padawan - Knight master enhancer with all powers on. Within 30 seconds all states where applied by Padawan. Not working.


Master enhancer knight faces 3 Anglers, forceresist poison on: poisoned within 10 seconds. Not working.

Disease not tested.


3) Knight duel vs a TK/Fencer, landed 15% of hits as master saber. Not Working, maybe accuracy needs to improve.


4) The whole force powers tree does minimal damage and is not worth taking with the amount of skill points aloted. Personally if anyone takes

this tree as is, ought to have the head examined. Choke, weaken against buffed playes does nothing and minimal in PvE. Not Working.


Force Intimidate 2 and Force Kd work nice, dont touch those. Working.


- Just add in, maybe delete that force defence tree and spread it around a bit in the other trees.




"The game is going to explode with goodness " - Thunderheart
"Both accounts canceled, 7/15/04" - Jellydoughnut
dannyny22
Tue Jun 22, 2004 8:03 pm
#121

TH-


I would really love some info even just a trinket of information about what its going to be like in the quests to become Force Sensitive.

I know we haven't reached Publish 9 but Publish 9 is benefiting only those who have already unlocked there FSCS and I think it to

be only fair to at least tell us a little about the new Path that will be coming in late July. Thank you.



This type of business ethic continues at SOE because of their CEO, John Smedley. Little does the public know, that Star Wars Galaxies was scrapped in 2002 and redeveloped in 14 months from the ground up. In a meeting, they asked how they could get away with releasing such an unfinished product. John Smedley stated that people will buy it because it has a Star Wars name on it - and then laughed as they said they would complete the retail product (which consumers have already paid $49.99 for) with approximately 2 years of subscription revenue

[[[[[[[[[[nnnnWX9ggggggggggggggggggggg
waaha
Tue Jun 22, 2004 8:07 pm
#122


Great Job TH is posting some answers .........I had to stop on this one though :





Jedi are not being designed to be the perfect solo character that can defend against all other classes. Jedi are not “scrappers” and by definition, Teras Kasi was developed specifically to fight Jedi at close range.This will be especially true when Jedi are given the ability to block ranged attacks back at their opponents. Melee attacks are something the Jedi should be wary of.






What are you smoking TH? j/k but in all seriousness.........





Noone is asking for the perfect solo charecter, (this can be made already with TKA/FOTM)




A JEDI is a melee class fighter, a melee class fighters 1st priority to block should be melee !!





Does George Lucas know how much you people are rewritting jedi?



I beleive one of the reasons he didnt want Jedi to be ingame at all was because of the chance of sony ruining what a Jedi is.




fire/etc.



The Jedi Development team is against balancing these combat features with the robes. We will work to balance resists to poisons/fire/etc.in a different manner and report back to you.






This is a joke that contradicts what dev's have been claiming all along.




JustG posted that robes WOULD get resists after seeing how combat balance was affected !






There are ways to limited the "ease" of leveling a Jedi while maintaining balance to create a game thats fun for people to play.





It seems that the DEV team is more bent on how they can make being a Jedi impossible to manage let alone fun in a effort to "curb" the population.






One last thing to add, ------------ saber componets --------------......




for a dev team that heavly says "this game is not loot based" you sure have managed to make Jedi loot based !








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Twentytolife
Tue Jun 22, 2004 8:07 pm
#123






JelyDoughnut wrote:

Jedi Powers:



4) The whole force powers tree does minimal damage and is not worth taking with the amount of skill points aloted. Personally if anyone takes

this tree as is, ought to have the head examined. Choke, weaken against buffed playes does nothing and minimal in PvE. Not Working.








QFE.


This powers tree needs more than tweaking. It needs an overhaul.




Seomon
Tue Jun 22, 2004 8:08 pm
#124



Gah, don't post in HTML, TH.

Message Edited by Seomon on 06-22-2004 11:09 PM



§eomon/§eo §nowlock

Large House-o-Crap located at 1175 -6143 outside the Agro Outpost on Dant

Grey Haven

Forever in remembrance of Tirza. May she rest in peace.

Damon123
Tue Jun 22, 2004 8:10 pm
#125


Somehow its funny and sad in the same moment.


1. A revamped Jedi will not have any problems after 4xx4 Saber killing ranged templates (except CMs) as they like - armor or not.


2. A revamped Jedi will be the punching ball of melee temploiters (TH: NOT working as intended, or IS IT?)


3. All revamped Jedi are meant to be diverse. That is done so well that everyone will be a master LS/enhancer, 4004 Healer.


4. No armor, but severe death penalty. I suggest there will be very empty councils - noone reaches the knight trials in a lifetime.


5. Great gap between Jedi rebalance and combat rebalance - a long time for a GANG-BANG-festivla on Jedi. Did you kill a Jedi today? No? Kill a FREE one tomorrow.


6. BHs are supposed hunt down Jedi - yet they will be told that mission has switched over to TKA


7. Sabers do no longer decay. "Master Yoda, something is wrong with my lightsaber. It makes rattling noises and doesnt do any damage"

"Oh, nothing to worry about - just replace the used up crystals/pearls and it will be fine. Oh, You do not have any? Me neither. Hmmm... must have been the dark side clouding the compartments before my eyes..."


8. Jedi are close to 100 times harder to level, with the heavy grind right before the FS-Slot opens, and yet we get told that we are meant to be mowed down like grass. Nice. And I thought I was a bad ass guy. You beat me - easily.



I conclude: some noobs (5% or less of the answers here) are neutral to happy on what is going on. 40% is trying to argue, and 55% is all way down the road with your flipside logic, your incompetence and your stubborn attitudes.


D.

Message Edited by Damon123 on 06-22-2004 08:12 PM

waaha
Tue Jun 22, 2004 8:14 pm
#126

TH says



"Jedi are not being designed to be the perfect solo character that can defend against all other classes. Jedi are not “scrappers” and by definition, Teras Kasi was developed specifically to fight Jedi at close range.This will be especially true when Jedi are given the ability to block ranged attacks back at their opponents. Melee attacks are something the Jedi should be wary of."






WRONG a TKA should be wary of a jedi attacking them at melee range !



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dhcpSilicon
Tue Jun 22, 2004 8:15 pm
#127

"This will ultimately be addressed when we rebalance all characters lots,but that will not be happening in Publish 9."


Wait...what?
sketch123
Tue Jun 22, 2004 8:19 pm
#128




Jedi and combat





Thunderheart wrote:


The Jedi Correspondent has distilled a lot of the feedback and produced a Punchlist.The team thought it was a pretty good list and I liked the community mechanics, so between now and the publish; we will update you on this Punchlist.



Please post your Feedback!







Jedi are not being designed to be the perfect solo character that can defend against all other classes. Jedi are not “scrappers” and by definition, Teras Kasi was developed specifically to fight Jedi at close range.This will be especially true when Jedi are given the ability to block ranged attacks back at their opponents. Melee attacks are something the Jedi should be wary of.










Right, because jedi have no experience whatsoever in melee, our sabers shoot just like blasters.


This is utterly unacceptable.


TH have you testing fighting against any melee with a knight? Not to mention defense stackers. TC2 as getting their butts whipped.


I would think that it would be the other way around, people would be wary of attacking a jedi with melee attacks. Well at least I would be afraid of something that could cut me in half with one swipe.


I laughed when I saw your explanation TH. Its not even funny, its sad really. How about instead of having us being awesome against ranged and horrible against melee, have it 50/50. This way you would shut the BHs up alittle and also shut the jedi up.





_____________________________________________________________________
Hi, my name is Harlequinn, and I just wanna say that thanks to Kanye's workout plan I was able to land me a Jedi Knight, I got me a free trip to naboo, and whats most importantly, I don't gotta worry about those BHs no more. Thanks to kayne's workout plan, I'm the envy of all my friends. See I pulled me a jedi knight, and I ain't gotta grind on dantoonie again.
ChewwyChewwy
Tue Jun 22, 2004 8:21 pm
#129

Thanks TH. I like what you had to say, except for the following:


6) I think meditation should be more of a part of our gameplay. Or even some focus/foresight on things like what is in the next room of a dungeon, tracking, etc.


8) Being locked in place for an animation sux and should have a toggle to turn it on/off in our options. We should be able to move while doing the animation. No need to penalize us for using force.


9) I can't wait for awesome saber deflect animations.


19) Why would you all keep in our requirement for the force sensitive boxes if they don't help us? C'mon give us those points to use in the skill trees.


21) Not sure that I like zero defensive to melee. How will these affect BHs? Are TKAs going to be integral to BHs killing us? Are they going to be 'dirty characters' like BHs and Smugglers?


28) I personally don't mind the culsion gas. If it hasn't spawned in months, you all should spawn it now for those servers.


And us getting the conversion chart Friday or Saturday would be nice so that we can plan what we would like to do.


Best Regards,





Delirium InfusesU
Jedi Knight
[Corbantis]

Stupidfly
Tue Jun 22, 2004 8:21 pm
#130






Yogol wrote:





Stupidfly wrote:








It saves us the trouble of parking a dancer alt next to our doctor alt out where we hunt. So now I guess I need to buy another account.


(snip)


Please, we are not Jedi because we think it is neato to shoot lightening. We are powergamers. We will gravitiate to whatever is the most powerful FOTM. Period.





"We" are powergamers ???


YOU are a powergamer, mister I'll-buy-three-acount-so-I'll-have-no-downtime.


Don't speak for the rest of us.







I didn't mean I would need to buy another account literally. I already have 5. I am sure I can switch one over.

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