Development Cycle Archive
Thread: IC 1-13: Combat Roles; Scout
In a galaxy far, far away, it is a time of civil war. The Empire has taken control over the galaxy and attempted to build the ultimate battle station to enforce the will of the Emperor. The rebellion destroyed the fearsome Death Star and this galactic conflict is at its peak.
In Massively Multiplayer combat, each profession should have a distinct role. Each role should help define the profession and have a relationship with its abilities in combat. In popular fantasy games, wizards cast ranged spells, warriors are “tanks”, and clerics “heal”. Each archetype has a specific role in combat and they all depend on each other for success. Additionally, each role gives any particular player group a unique feel depending on how many of each type is involved in a group and the role they play when combat gets tough.
In a science-fiction oriented game, those traditional roles aren’t so clear cut. Most skills and abilities are redundant because of balance issues, which take away from the unique feel of the profession. Many players have stated that they would like to see SWG professions have a more unique feel to them and we would like to know what your thoughts are.
Some basic balance considerations are:
* Ranged and Melee Professions
In SWG, a key thing to consider about each profession and its role in combat is that there are many ranged combat classes and many melee combat classes. Each ranged combat profession should have a unique aspect to their “ranged” abilities that helps distinguish them from other ranged combat professions, and likewise, each melee combat profession should have a unique aspect to their “tanking” or melee abilities that helps distinguish them from other melee professions.
* Redundant vs. Unique Abilities
There are two basic set of combat skills any profession should have. The first are Redundant Abilities. These are abilities that either most or all combat professions posses, in other words, “everyman combat skills”. The second set of combat skills a profession should posses are Unique Abilities. Unique abilities are the abilities that give a profession its unique feel in combat. In other words, it defines the profession and its role in combat.
* Game Space
Another basic concept to keep in mind when thinking about combat professions and their role in combat is Game Space. The next big consideration for assessing combat abilities is where the combat takes place. There are indoor spaces and outdoors spaces. Indoor spaces would be dungeons, bases and the like and outdoor spaces would be wilderness and/or city spaces.
* PvP and PvE
In SWG, players can choose between PvE and PvP playstyles and even shift back and forth to play in elements of both. PvE is “Player versus Environment” and basically deals with fighting computer controlled enemies in combat. PvP is “Player versus Player” and is real players fighting real players and tends to be very tricky because anytime something in game is at stake (like faction equipment, etc), it is important to keep things fair and balanced, but also fun.
* Profession Lifespan
What is the profession’s role in its novice state and how should the skill progress over the course of a player’s time investment in the profession? At all times any given profession should have a distinct role and value in combat. As a player progresses from Novice to Master, the profession should reflect something special about the profession and also be fun to play.
Given the basic considerations listed above, please answer the following questions:
What defines theScout role in combat?
What basic combat elements should they possess?
What offensive abilities?
What defensive abilities?
What unique abilities?
Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
How could/should they interact with other professions?
What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?
What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?
Request For Comments:
The community is invited to make commentsthrough April. At that time, the thread will be closed to further comments. Feel free to comment on any or all of the above items. Please stay on topic.
Scouts have no role in combat right now. Traps do not give much advantage, they also cant be used on humaniod types. the only unique ability is camps, and there is no reason to have a bigger camp as a scout. They can also harvest but it is dangerous work, also slow and tedius. being able to run up a hill fast can be an advantage in pvp and pve if there are any hills around.
there unique role in the gcw should be intelegence gathering. but since stuff doesnt appear until your almost on top of it that dosnt really work to well.
i assume you mean the scout proffession in this game, the starting one. not ranger.
First!
ok to the point now:
What defines theScout role in combat?
The ability to SCOUT ahead of players and be able to report back findings, such as enemy troop locations
What basic combat elements should they possess?
they should have slightly lowered defenses/attack against NPCs, but increased vs creatures
What offensive abilities?
the ability to attack certain parts of a creature to injure them more (passive abilitiy)
What defensive abilities?
the ability to defend against certain creature attacks by "getting to know their patterns" (passive as well)
What unique abilities?
an increased radar detection range for creatures, and with higher levels, NPCs
Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
a scout should be able to scout ahead with increased speed AND terrain negotiation, and have an increased radar range of seeing things on the radar (cant think of the exact term)
How could/should they interact with other professions?
as stated above, they should be faster than non-scouts on foot, and have a larger radar detection range for Creatures/NPCs, as well as setting up of camps to help heal allies that have been wounded in combat
What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?
a well trained scout can point out to his/her group the best place to attack a creature to injure it the best
What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?
covert recon of enemy troop positions
ill think of some more later...
Yay second! Anyway:
What defines theScout role in combat?
This is a hard one...
What basic combat elements should they possess?
They shouldn't have any special moves or anything. More traps or needed though.
What offensive abilities?
Same as above.
What defensive abilities?
There should be a new kind of defense which only works in pve and is against animals not npcs. It would kind of be like damage migtiation except more complex I guess.
What unique abilities?
No combat abilities but maybe some special trap moves or something.
Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
Should be able a support group. The only current asset they have is camps. Camps should have more purpose and yet again more traps are needed.
How could/should they interact with other professions?
They should be support category. They should add extra PVE advantages but you should have to go full blown into scout professions to get the good stuff.
What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?
I'm not sure on this one.
What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?
Maybe you can become overt at a camp or something or GCW specific traps.
Hopes this helps!
What defines theScout role in combat?
Traps? The ability to pull without agros?
What basic combat elements should they possess?
Traps. Sorta de-buffing the creatures. They should beable to steathly infiltrate or aproach lairs/facilities and pull 1 mob or2.
What offensive abilities?
Does it realy need any? A scout isn't a combat profession per say, its a mix of a trade profession and a combat profession without any combat skills per say. Traps are offesnive. They should gain extra chances to do more damage against creatures.
What defensive abilities?
Not realy necesary in scout.
What unique abilities?
Scouts/Raners gain terrain negoation, which is increadbly helpfull. They get to use traps. And the ability to harvest is perhaps the most usefull of any skill the scout gets.
Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
Well traps need to be more effective. More traps also. Maybe traps with dots. Again they should have the ability to easly pull creatures.
How could/should they interact with other professions?
I'm not sure were your comming from. If you mean how are they necesary to other professions, then well the harvest thigny is the most important. Camps are the next important feature. (not everybody can live without them, in large raids you need camps to better eqp your members)
What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?
Well all the other combat professions should reatain the ability to use weapons, get special moves, passive defenses.
What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?
Ok, to be blunt scouts are not a PvP profession, nor should they be. Personaly I dont see how any profession in this game has a unique role in the GCW, so I cant tell you what the unique roll of the scout should be in the GCW as I have no examples to lead off of.
Anyways 
We want loot!
With only the scout skills, their ca be no role in fights...
But i would say, some sort of "Debuff" ability...
A scout should be a backup in combat, who move very fast.
Some kind of annoying fighting style, very difficult to catch...
What basic combat elements should they possess?
Scout are lonely wanderer, so it would be logical that they have more "light weapon" certification, or some kind of "Basic melee weapon certification"
What offensive abilities?
More traps!
And a lot more, who are usable on humanoide/npc.
That's what i meant above with "Debuff"/backup.
As a scout, it will be great to run from a mob to another in group and put some "snare/root trap" here, and "ranged defence down" there, etc...
What defensive abilities?
A Scout use his knowledge of the field/planet when he fight.
I think of some kind of defensive knowledge for each planet (Survival... as the camokit for ranger) when activated they give some bonus to dodge....
What unique abilities?
Disapearing for a short time or loosing aggro...
Scout KNOW very well the field and use it as a weapon or armor...
Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
As above with the trap...
The advantage of having a scout in a group should be that he do very few harm to NPC, but give advantage for the fighting classes (Snare, root, stun,...)
How could/should they interact with other professions?
I think, harvesting is the center of interaction with other player, the only think that is difficult ATM is that collecting ressources is very very very long.
Anybody, in the game can buy a harvester, seek a place with a lot of them, put his near them and start collecting steel, ore, copper, fiberplast,... in great quantity, even when sleeping!
A scout has to invest a lot of play time for collecting a very few hide, bone, meat...
What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?
Interaction : The scout should be "needed" in a group by his abilities to give some bonus against large group of creature/NPC (Trap, maskcent, camo...)
Dependencies : A scout is not really a fighting type, so he "need" a group of heavy fighter alongside in his hunt for getting ressources...
What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?
Helping the group to get to battlefield with less harm (Camo, calming creature...)
Helping the group destroying the rebel scu...hum,hum..target with some trap and debuff..
Scouting
Be less visible when moving (Somekind of maskcent for NPC)My 2 cr
The Scout should be required for gathering information about upcoming battles. This generally means they should be above the cut in perception, movement and stealth. While the Ranger is an Elite profession, the Ranger should not necessarily be seen as an improvement on all aspects of the Scout.
What basic combat elements should they possess?
The Scout profession should not be directly combat oriented.
What offensive abilities?
What defensive abilities?
I've bundled these together. The Scout's information should aid tactical planning before the battle is joined, such as which weapons to use, chances of survival and so forth.
What unique abilities?
The Scout is also a hunter. Traps and harvesting are useful tools to aid hunting, but in my view should not be considered important combat tools. The Scout also introduces camps, which should be useful as places to rest between combat. These abilities, however, are all precursors to the Ranger profession.
The Scout should have the unique ability to use stealth against humanoids. While the Ranger is elite, the Ranger is also more oriented to wildlife. Thus, I think concealment from humanoids should be the strong point of the Scout, while concealment from creatures should be stronger in Rangers. Scouts should not, however, be providing a group benefit; this should remain with Rangers.
Should add what advantage or asset in group combat?
The Scout's usefulness is before combat, in gathering information, and after combat, by providing camps and resource gathering.
How could/should they interact with other professions?
The Scout should complement the Squad Leader well. Information from the Scout should enable the Squad Leader to make effective decisions about impending combat. The Scout is also a supplier of natural resources, though the Ranger should be noticably more effective.
And, for the love of all that is Holy, if I'm grouped with a pet, it's not going to harvest any corpses! Stop penalising me! Bad devs! No cookie! If you've fixed it and I haven't noticed, sorry.
What interaction / dependencies should exist with other combatants?
A Pistoleer should be glad to learn that the creatures they're about to attack are vulnerable to heat but have 90% resist to acid, letting them choose the appropriate weapon. Medics and Entertainers should be able to use facilities in a camp to provide treatment somewhere between that a droid can give and that a permanent installation can give.
What should be their unique role in the Galactic Civil War?
Scouts should be important to both sides; knowledge is power, knowing how many defenders are in that base would make planning an attack on it much easier.
Guys,
FYI - I'm going to wait for a while before posting here. I want you all to express your opinions. I do enough of that - your turn.
B
The scout's group role should be to give a passive bonus to hitting creatures owing to their knowledge of them (important for dealing with creature handlers in battles). The bonuses could increase as a player moves up into the ranger profession. Either starting in scout, or holding back til Ranger, a group should also get defense bonuses vs creatures.
Overall, I think that the scout proffesion is well off, but there are a few things that need to be addressed.
Fisrt off, a general statement.
From a quick scan of the "master" level of all proff's, there simply isn't enough reward to become a master. There should be something in each proffesion that sets a "master" above and beyond the regular folks in a given proffesional, i.e., the difference between a green beret or SEAL as opposed to a common infantryman.
That being said, there are 2 things in particular that I think should be done with scout.
1st: Everyone, regardless of proffesion should be able to do some kind of creature harvesting. Being a hunter in real life, it's not that bloody difficult to butcher up an animal. Were a scout should have the advantage is that his familiarity with carving up creatures should allow him to obtain more resources than the basic, reflective of his skill, knowledge, and experience at such tasks.
2nd: Traps. Why can't a scout make traps usable against humanoids?! Traps have been an integral part of warfare since we first climbed outta the **edit** trees. We've used traps to hunt, to defend ourselves, and to ambush our enemies. A most modern example of a military "trap" is a minefield. The Viet Cong during the Viet Nam Conflict successfully used punji stakes to injure and kill 1st the French, and later American soldiers. They were simple, and highly effective. Of my biggest complaint with the scouting proffesion, it's the fact that I can't use traps against a humanoid that really annoys me. While it is just a game, "realism" adds to the flavor and the tension.
but
what about the SMUGGLERS???
Veg,
No idea about the Smugglers. But why are you asking on our post?
B