Development Cycle Archive

Thread: Friday Feature Errata... Part 2...

Rorenikibi
Wed Feb 05, 2003 12:38 pm
#1

So essentially, TH gave us information accurate as he knew it to be and had the carpet pulled out from under him. **edit**, takin' it from both ends...


Could you shplain a little how you feel this 1% decay on insured items is such an important mechanic that you are willing to have a continued dark cloud hover over the GCW's long term health to keep it in there? Really, what is this new FP perk you are throwing at us than another form of insurance? Why two systems to get the same job done?


The only thing good about this new proposed FP Decay Pass is that it at least gives us something USEFUL to spend faction points on.




Captain Janu Hull CFA-7
In the event of an emergency, this pilot's ego may be used as a floatation device.


JustG
Wed Feb 04, 2004 3:19 pm
#2


(I posted this in the original thread, but I am afraid it will get overlooked.)


Folks,


I have to step in, as Senior Producer, and take some responsibility here. The 1% decay removal was communicated to TH. We then revoked that change without telling him. He posted erroneous information to you, and it is my fault. I have apologized profusely to him, and now I am doing so to the community.


Here is why we revoked that change:


We want the GCW to be everything it can be. We want factional PvP to be fun and exciting. We understand that as players, you don't want the 1% decay. We think it is an important game mechanic in the right situations, but we want to remove it from factional battles.


Our plan is, in the next publish (NOT Imperial Crackdown, which is due soon, but the following publish) to have a factional perk that you can purchase with faction points. This perk will give you 24 hours of no decay on insured items for factional deaths.


Now as to your harsh words and attitude towards Thunderheart... I understand your frustration. But you have to know that every morning, the first person I talk to is TH, to find out about the current hot issues. He comes with us to almost all of our high-level meetings and represents "the voice of the players". He has tremendous passion for the game, and for you, and for his job. He fights for your issues, heart and soul, day in and day out. His job is to know your desires and represent them to us. And I think he does his job DAMN WELL.


It kills me to see how harsh some of the player population is towards him, because I know in no small part, we are responsible for any misinformation that you receive from him. No one is perfect, and things happen very rapidly from time to time. Miscommunications are going to occur. Don't kill the messenger. Please be forgiving, or direct your wrath towards a more guilty party (me).


Again, my deepest apologies for any misinformation regarding item decay from PvP. I take full responsibility. We love this game, as you do, and want it to be everything it can be. With your help, we will get there.


Best,


- Gary

electricnomad
Wed Feb 04, 2004 3:23 pm
#3

I hope that thing about Imperials being able to smuggle better than Smugglers was an error, too.




Too many people are looking at the Imperial Crackdown as if everyone in the game is entitled to operate in the underworld as a criminal.


Let me say it as plainly as I possibly can:


Imperials should receive no bonuses unless they spend skillpoints and invest in the criminal underworld. Our invested skillpoints are our de facto Criminal Faction.


Here iswhy I have no problems at all with contraband rules affecting Imperials just as much as anyone else:




Ever since I heard about the crackdown, I've started thinking of spicing and slicing as a special type of personal buff that can be traded on a limited basis. It's like this:


Smugglers get to buff their own offensive and defensive power (weapons, armor, stats).Something unique to Smugglers is that the special buffs open you to potential penalties, including FP loss, fines, or TEFs. In addition, these buffs, moderately dangerous when used personally, can be transferred to others - though non-Smugglers assume a higher risk than Smugglers.


But that's the interesting part - users need to consider risk versus reward, especially people with no way to shield the illegal buffs from being detected. Is it worth it? Hey, that's up to the customer.


But here's the problem:


The community got addicted to the riskless buffs of slicing and spice.


Now that the Devs have ended the amnesty on contraband, non-Smugglers want to continue using the buffs they've become accustomed to enjoying, and they see anything less than the status quo as a nerf.


Or, as you wrote, San, grief.


And that is absolutely absurd. Do non-Doctors seriously complain that they can't buff themselves? Do Carabineers lament their lack of a PowerBoost skill? Do non-Artisans demand the ability to craft 33% damage powerups?


No they don't. Because it's not considered grief, it's considered in terms of "they invested skillpoints in a profession, andthey get that as an ability."


And soI have come to think ofspice and slicing. These are special Smuggler abilities, useful as personal buffs for shady folks like us. The complicated and interestingpart isthat theycan be transferred tonon-Smugglers on a limited basis- the catch being that they are MUCH more dangerous for non-Smugglers to use.


Now, would people rather have a risky option to increase their power, or no option at all to access that power? I'm inclined to believe that they'd rather have a choice.


The problem for much of the community, apparently including SanTsu, is that seven months of universal, risk-freeuse by everyone has made people feel entitled to these special powers rather thanprivileged to have access to them.


And so we have many people in the community clamoring that stripping them of "their" buffs is now GRIEF - when in fact they were using Smuggler-specific skills on borrowed time, and with no consequences, until now. Now that reality has finally sunk in and these items are finally turning into the contraband they were always supposed to be, people are crying foul. They've gotten used to them and don't want to lose them. They feel like it's a subtraction from their game when it was really an unfair and unbalancedaddition. And regardless, they still have the choice to use the buffs - but with strings attached this time.


Outlawing spice and slices on a universal basis is the furthest thing from grief. This patch should have been a rebalance that solidified the unique role of the Smuggler, and should have added some excitement and unpredictability both to Smugglers and to everyone else who chose to live an outlaw life.


Well now there's absolutely no unpredicability. Imperials avoid the risks associated with what should be universally risky buffs, and the unique flavor of the Smuggler profession has been stolen to give Imperials something to play with. What a waste of potential. What a disgrace. What a way to watch the Smuggler profession get written out of SWG.


It was a whimper, not a bang.





"We're dedicating a designer (Green Marine) next week to looking into fixing some of the bigger issues of the smuggler. (Yes, we are also looking at issues with the other professions, the smuggler just seems to be the one needing the most love at this moment)." Q-3PO - September 16, 2003
Great Threads in Smuggler History, Vol. I / Vol. II / Vol. III - Collected Posts by the Devs Concerning Smugglers
***ELECTRICNOMAD RETIRED FROM SWG ON 7 MAY 2004***

shutupidontwanthisshizzle
Wed Feb 04, 2004 3:23 pm
#4

or you know, you could just get rid of decay completely like everyone wants



ingame: Rigen
Mansemat
Wed Feb 04, 2004 3:23 pm
#5

Thanks for the reply Gary.



--
JG
Kettemoor
Imperio59
Wed Feb 04, 2004 3:23 pm
#6

Sorry to Hear TH had to take the blame again for a design decision. I personally KNOW TH Cares, but some people see him as an information dispenser where they can push his buttons 24/7 and get back info about upcoming stuff.


And like with dispensers, when it doesn't work to their liking, they kick it and beat it around until it DOES work and give them the right info. TH is a real lvie person with feeling, let's make sure we don't break him, cuse he's a VERY valuable asset, hmm'kay?




_________________________________________________________

Eclipse: Imperia, Jedi, Sony Sensitive Grinder!
TC: Imperia
Test Center: "We test, because we care..."

crescentwindx
Wed Feb 04, 2004 3:23 pm
#7


I don't mean to be a jerk here, JustG - but I'd like one question answered.


You say:








We want the GCW to be everything it can be. We want factional PvP to be fun and exciting. We understand that as players, you don't want the 1% decay. We think it is an important game mechanic in the right situations, but we want to remove it from factional battles.






Then explain to us, please - what makes it an important game mechanic? Why is it important to have our armor and clothing and crafting tools decay on clone? Why not re-implement and fix the "corpse run" system? I think, as the players of the game, and the people who have turned the game into what it now is, we deserve to know that. I, personally, will be more than satisfied with a reason.






Lasque Wavingrunner - Master Profession Switcher - Chilastra

...bears the Mark of the Addict
WookieIsshe
Wed Feb 04, 2004 3:26 pm
#8

Very big of you to step in and take responsibilty JustG. I too am disheartened at the treatment that the community has shown towards ThunderHeart.


Rest assured though, there are many of us (mature) that love this game and know that miscommunication does and will happen.



Looking forward to the publish, can't wait to try and get away with carrying the 2 crates of spice I use every day for hunting.. lol Bring on the storm troopers cause I will knock them on flat on their backs





_____________________________________________________________

Master TKA
EvilHairy
Wed Feb 04, 2004 3:26 pm
#9

You steped into a viscous comunity full of kryat dragons that will eat you up in milla seconds JustG. And they are that way for one reason. They are sick of being decived.


That is all.


I hold no grudges yet, but I am disapointed.



Jorgan Bradwisch
~ Master Weapon Smith/ Artisan/ Architect ~

~ Dark Star Syndicate Trade Corp. ~
"I only have one rule, it is: Dont break the first rule."

Walebro
Wed Feb 04, 2004 3:27 pm
#10

Wow, I'm flabergasted at this. How do you not communicate something like that to TH? Seriously, you're *improvements* in communication so far dont seem to be going to well. Do you not give him a hard copy of stuff you've changed/removed, or is it by word of mouth? Can you not compromise with your players, the people who pay YOU to play this game, in just removing decay for the next month? I feel sorry for any rebel players that are going to be subject to TEF's now due to searches, because they now stand a chance of dieing much, much more. If anything you should remove decay for that, because as I see it you are griefing them, which is IMHO wrong. You are essentially taking something from your players, which you said you would not do. I hate to say it, but forcing your players to wait another month/2 months*since your publishes arent monthly obviously now* is not good at all, and may force many to stop playing. Will you be offering another 2 week free trial for those people that stop playing due to this? Sorry for ranting/raving, but YOU do deserve it this time.



Wale Bro
Ex Master CH/Master Carbineer
Currently Master Brawler/ Master TKA/Master Swordsman
Corbantis
Abnaxus
Wed Feb 04, 2004 3:27 pm
#11

JustG,


your faction perk plan is pretty good, but i really think my plan is better and also works towards the game mechanic you are looking to establish.


Could you please look at it and maybe bring it up at a meeting?


Thanks.


here it is:



here's another idea to make death sting:



put some sort of talley, like a badge, on people when you examine them.


it should say how many of the other faction they have killed, and how many times they have died to the other faction.


people love badges, and it would be pretty embarassing to see you have been killed like a million times and rarely win.


then maybe you can give a special prize to someone who has a really good record, like a special uniform or badge that goes on your clothes. Rebel killer or Imp killer or something.


that's incentive not to die in pvp.




gildor inglorion
former: master ranger, master ch
current: bounty hunter extraordinare
always: a loser
Colbin
Wed Feb 04, 2004 3:28 pm
#12


Thanks for the reply. I however will not participate in the GCW other than NPC mission which will give me faction and credits to fund my insured decaying equipment.


I may not make to see this game become "Everything it can be."
Krayvex
Wed Feb 04, 2004 3:28 pm
#13

if this was your choice to pull this G then you should have started the thread on it. TH must have felt like a guy walking to a meeting with a firing squad with that info. Looks like you hid behind the employee under you till things got too far gone. Nice.


So you're leaving pvp dead till the next publish. Good job. Well done.





Slaag Lazerbait


Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country. - Hermann Goering



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