Dancer Archive

Thread: When will we get Groupdancestart?

Chibiwolf
Tue Aug 30, 2005 8:58 pm
#1

Okay, something that's been bugging me and this was mentioned at the fanfest (I'm sure to shut us up) and it's been brought up in other realms but when will we dancers get a /groupbandstart? Honestly? Is this too difficult of a thing to ask for when musicians can do it, already?

With troupe performances and such, it's so incredibly needed. Please, someone look into this?



Taliesen - Dances with Banthas (and Jaxes)
Master Entertainer ~ Elder Creature Handler
Proud Member of the "Varactyls" of the Yell Cantina, New Hope, Naboo - Kettemoor
-Creature Handler Memorial - Mos Mesric, Tatooine/Kettemoor Galaxy -1419, 283-

rebus_ks
Tue Aug 30, 2005 9:03 pm
#2

I'm going to go ahead and second this request for information (which will no doubt be gleefully ignored). This was promised at fanfest and we've been wanting this for years. As long as we're getting some love right now with buffs anyway, can this simple thing be implemented?
Panthu
Tue Aug 30, 2005 10:41 pm
#3

Hmm, second request in 24 hours.




P A N T H U Y GlitterUsagi
M i n d B o d y S p i r i t
Dancer ImageDesigner Doc

Esharra
Tue Aug 30, 2005 11:14 pm
#4




I've asked again for this tonight, as well as removal of the /bandflourish xp restriction so that all dancers in a group can get xp from /bandflourishes. I think these issues, along with an ability to create groups larger than 8 dancers, would really enhance performances and encourage leveling dancers to play together more and AFK less.


Just to let you know, there are differences in the code behind musicians and dancers that I understand would prevent their /startband, /stopband and /changeband code from being cleanly applied to us. A big one I believe isflourish queuing which, while necessary to prevent musicians from sounding awful, would cause us to lose a lot of our potential creativity (/flourishing at any point of the base and changing dances during a flourish would likely become impossible). However, that is not to say that the above could not be accomplished. It would just require new code, rather than a patch over from the musician's code.

Message Edited by Esharra on 08-31-2005 03:16 AM



Esharra ěsh-äŕ-rä, noun
1. Entertainer
2. Bounty Hunter
3. Smuggler

"One man's oddity is another man's routine." -Bertos Goodner (a dancer)


Panthu
Tue Aug 30, 2005 11:36 pm
#5






Esharra wrote:


(/flourishing at any point of the base and changing dances during a flourish would likely become impossible)






This could also stop people from coming out of a flo into an upside down position in tumble though, hehe. I think it would rock if we had real entry and exit points for base loops that matched up.


It would be nice to be able to set any of our flo anims as bases though and any bases as flos... and small short anims, if they could break down a few small short kicks, leaps, side steps, and so on from our long anims, that would rock so much. *drools*


If the animations were shorter, we wouldn't have to worry about losing any creativity.

Message Edited by Panthu on 08-31-2005 02:36 AM




P A N T H U Y GlitterUsagi
M i n d B o d y S p i r i t
Dancer ImageDesigner Doc

Caerwynn
Wed Aug 31, 2005 12:22 pm
#6

It would be wonderful if there was more flexibilty in our performances. Each band could then develope it's own style.


If all chars were given basic (with perhaps an additional dance/song for ents), then performances and parties would be very much more lively too.





Caerwynn (Caerwynn') Royce Grand Master Entertainer and Smuggler
Guild Leader of the Dune Sea Desperadoes. Member of Nebula
Various girls with skills and stuff.

rebus_ks
Wed Aug 31, 2005 6:00 pm
#7



Esharra wrote:

A big one I believe isflourish queuing which, while necessary to prevent musicians from sounding awful, would cause us to lose a lot of our potential creativity (/flourishing at any point of the base and changing dances during a flourish would likely become impossible).





Actually, I would also like to ask about this.

Since we can no longer turn while dancing to correct for drift or to move around the dance floor (well, we can but no one else will see it), and also since a major portion of drift is due to kicking off flourishes at different points in the base dance, is /flourishing at any point we feel like in the base dance wise? Wouldn't being able to queue flourishes as the musicians do and therefore be able to have all the base or none of it benefit us greatly? It would also eliminate much of the horrible transitions from mid-base to flourish (tumbling upside-down directly into standing up, for example).

Thoughts?
Esharra
Wed Aug 31, 2005 9:16 pm
#8


One of thetruly creative outlets that dance has had is in our ability to determine when we will call a flourish and when we will change dances (whether during the base or during a flourish, to transition to the same flourish of the next dance). With the re-ordering of the Exotic dance flourishes, we lost our ability to use /changedance transitions to combine those flourishes.A lot of dancers lost their favorite moves.


The dancer's control of when the flourishis called is an important part of these transitions.If our flourishes were queued, as musicians' are, we would lose all ability to control our performances. Wouldn't it be better for dancers to learn when in the base dance loop to call a flourish so that it flows seemlessly back into the base?


Changing dances mid-flourish can also give you control of your drift. All you have to do is learn in what directionthe flourisheswill move you. Choose the same numbered flourish in the dance you are in, /changed to the dance containing the flourish you want to use to move you and then /changed back to your original dance or another.


I would really prefer dancers learn to use the tools we have rather than ask to nerf them to make it easier to avoid learning to control the dances.

Message Edited by Esharra on 09-01-2005 12:15 AM



Esharra ěsh-äŕ-rä, noun
1. Entertainer
2. Bounty Hunter
3. Smuggler

"One man's oddity is another man's routine." -Bertos Goodner (a dancer)


Panthu
Thu Sep 01, 2005 6:35 am
#9






Esharra wrote:


I would really prefer dancers learn to use the tools we have rather than ask to nerf them to make it easier to avoid learning to control the dances.





I would prefer the Devs gave us an interface and real tools to do the things we do. We don't really have tools right now, we have work arounds. Sort of like the old ID "exploit" where you could give Wookiee's mohawks and take off Zab's horns. There was really no harm in having a blue Twi with out lekku and with a human hairstyle imo, but it was just a work around and IDs actually ended up with a lot more options when they got their new UI. They could do more and have it all look right after they were given a supported solution.


There's no guarantee they won't nerf mixing on their own with out us asking for real tools because it's not Dev implemented. They could do itunintentionally while working on something else entirely. I think we just need to make sure that we ask for real Dev implemented tools to give us all of our current work around functionality plus more.


Right now, we're limited to only mixing with flos of the same number - that actually makes no sense and is just one of the many little quirky symptoms of it being a work around. If you don't feel safe asking for improvements like group commands until we've made it clear what all we want to be able to do, I think we just need a list describing everything we currently achieve with work arounds that we want to keep, have improved, and expanded on with real Dev implemented tools.


We need flo queues and the like, keeping mixing and actually improving on it could be achieved with an interrupt style of flo calling. Better still would be the ability to actually shave down a flo animation, take off the beginning and end as much as you like to edit down to just the part of the animation you're wanting, save it - give it a new name - call it any time you like - teach it to your friends so they can use it too or call it with a band flo that will work on everyone who knows it.


That's the kind of stuff we need. We're not ever going to be able to get this stuff though if we tell them "no, no, don't touch us, we're fine with our work arounds and you guys will just mess them up." I have no doubt they will messthem up, but if we are clear in all that we are wanting from the start, I think there's a great chance we will be given the tools to do all that we can now but much better and with Dev support so if something breaks down the line, they'll actually fix it for us.








P A N T H U Y GlitterUsagi
M i n d B o d y S p i r i t
Dancer ImageDesigner Doc

Esharra
Thu Sep 01, 2005 7:41 am
#10

I, too, would love..LOVE..to see us coded in such a way that we could have the toolbox style of dance creation you've alwaysdreamed about. Unfortunately, in my poking about it, I've gotten absolutely no indication that they are interested in changing us in such a way. As I've mentioned to you privately, this might be something that they would respond to if we had the numbers to justify such acompletere-write.



Esharra ěsh-äŕ-rä, noun
1. Entertainer
2. Bounty Hunter
3. Smuggler

"One man's oddity is another man's routine." -Bertos Goodner (a dancer)


Oblox
Thu Sep 01, 2005 7:45 am
#11

If you build it they will come....

With Ent profs in the sorry state they are today is it any wonder numbers are dwindling.



~ Ani'a L'o ~
Dune Sea Desperadoes
Lightsaber ~ ()(ts)() - Tri Sun Shipping ~ YT-2400
"Wandering the galaxy since November 5, 2003"
Esharra
Thu Sep 01, 2005 7:56 am
#12






Oblox wrote:
If you build it they will come....





Unfortunately, speculation on the futureisn't enough to justify applying dev hours to content for such a small percentage of the playerbase. IF we could increase our numbers..tremendously..it might happen. But that would require speculation on our part.


Devs expand games where players are playing..look at Pilot..Jedi. These professions getmajor changes,frequent updates and content additions because that's where players are spending their time.


Sure..a lot of players have told me they would Love to be able to dance but they are unwilling to compromise their crafting and combat templates for it. And in turn, we're unwilling to compromise our uniqueness to allow for that. A compromise, such as applying a buff that would allow them to perform Basic for a few hours, would allow them atemporary peek into our world. Itisn't nearly the same as allowing them to play the profession with us.


Message Edited by Esharra on 09-01-2005 09:57 AM



Esharra ěsh-äŕ-rä, noun
1. Entertainer
2. Bounty Hunter
3. Smuggler

"One man's oddity is another man's routine." -Bertos Goodner (a dancer)


Panthu
Thu Sep 01, 2005 8:13 am
#13






Esharra wrote:
As I've mentioned to you privately, this might be something that they would respond to if we had the numbers to justify such acompletere-write.





*nods* I agree. This may be too much of a commitment if they are questioning how many will use it. I don't know, I'm not sure how much more involved this would be than the ID UI (and Dancers have always out numbered IDs), but animations are just in general harder to work with than model and texture manipulation - so probably a lot.


We may have to give up a little safety in prof identity by requesting a skill reduction or separate pool so more people will come in, like you say. I know that Jake and Joe intended for us to have much more creative ability and animation manipulation when they did the mo-caps... they both told me they captured all the moves with the intention of allowing mirroring and a mix and match kind of build your own dance.


So, I know at least at one time there was interest in this for us and we are set up to be able to move to it - we don't need another motion capture, just better usage of the anims we do have. We might have to increase our numbers first and have many more players asking for these things though, it certainly wouldn't hurt I'm sure even if it's not a guarantee.


Maybe we should just try to flat out ask them "what would it take for you to be willing to spend effort on developing true dance tools for us?" When I used to ask about this stuff way back when, Keld always came in and said "when we are allowed to work on Ent again" - which is now, so it might be a good time to reclarify exactly what it is we are wanting and see how receptive they are to it.


If they aren't, knowing what it would take for them to become interested in it would be helpful.




P A N T H U Y GlitterUsagi
M i n d B o d y S p i r i t
Dancer ImageDesigner Doc

Page 1 of 2
Previous Next