Dancer Archive
Thread: Please help us, or this could be your profession someday
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BlindTyldak
Tue Jul 06, 2004 9:15 am
#1
To all players of SWG:
As you know, Publish Nine brought a great many changes to the game, many of which we are still discovering the effects of. The profession of Creature Handler has come to discover something that down the road could ultimately affect every profession here. As we, like many others, are a very undesirable profession right now due to bugs and ineffectiveness, we are a very small voice in a big crowd due to people abandoning it. However, this issue is of such scope that we are hoping that the other professions will stand with us against this, lest it also affect you down the road. We ask for you to please just take a couple of moments to read this, and a couple of minutes to make a post or two.
I just want to first very quickly point out that this is not a "Jedi" issue, this is a "Developer Judgement" issue. We do not wish to point fingers at the Jedi players, because they are not the ones who created this code.
It has come to our attention that Jedi have the ability to take control of our pets in PvP and turn them against their masters; apparently they've had this ability for a while, but we didn't know about it until now due to the changes in the Jedi class and they all came out of hiding and into the fore of the game. In essence, they have the ability totake away our own weapon and class and turn it against us. There is no other class in the game where Jedi can take their weapon away from their target, and not only attack the target with their lightsaber/force powers/what have you, but with the targets own weapon simultaniously, leaving the target powerless to attack back. There is a loophole to this power that by giving our pets commands again we MAY be able to regain control in a fight, but due to bugs that have existed since launch, we have severe problems communicating with our pets sometimes, a bug that affects players in different ways. So our "out" from this meathod of force attack is potentially unavailable to many of us.
We are not asking for invulnerability from Jedi or anything of the nature. Jedi can still cut our pets down in almost no time, and even the Jedi admit that this is a useless skill in strict combat; they would much rather force choke our pets for 6k a shot. But with the coming combat reballance, we have no idea how effective our pets will be. In three months, our pets may actually stand a chance of some sort, and the ability to disarm us and attack us in this fashion would be instant death for any CH. All we ask for is that the ability for Jedi to take command of our pets be removed, so that we may use them as we were intended to do.
Where this affects everyone is that if the Devs can do it to us, they can do it to you too. We need to get the point across to them that giving Jedi, or ANY class, the ability to completely disable a specific class of player and use their class against them is unacceptable. This is the equivilent of a force power that would make you stick your blaster to your head and pull the trigger, or poison yourself intentionally. It's the equivilent of a player being able to force a dancer or a musician to stop performing if there is a TEF'd character in the cantina. It's the equivilent of making you take off your armor and your weapon, handing them to the Jedi, and the Jedi using them while he cuts you down with his own skills.
NO PROFESSION SHOULD HAVE THE ABILITY TO COMPLETELY REMOVE ANOTHER CLASS'S WEAPONS,ABILITIES, ANDDEFENSE AND USE THEM THEMSELVES.
ALL PLAYERS HAVE THE RIGHT TO USE THEIR CHOSEN CLASS AS IT WAS INTENDED WITHOUT ANOTHER PLAYER TAKING IT AWAY FROM THEM AT ANY TIME.
Please show your support for these statements by posting here, and also by taking a moment to post in the Creature Handler forums. We really need your help in getting this message across to the Developers that this is unacceptable for any profession, and do it in a manner that does not turn into a Jedi/Anti-Jedi flame fest. Again, this issue is with the DEVELOPERS, not the players.
The next class that this happens to could be your own. We need to stop this now.
picklesSW
Tue Jul 06, 2004 9:26 am
#2
This could be our profession someday?
Believe me when I say...there is very little they could do to ruin our profession more. We're already non-viable from a playability standpoint, and I don't see a lot of Creature Handlers sticking up for entertainers and avoiding the use of AFK healing or buffbots.
Having said that, what you describe, while perfectly reasonable from a reality standpoint, is bad game design. Your pets are your primary weapons, that's what a creature handlers IS. I agree with you that nobody should be able to take your pets away and use them against you.
You have my support.
Believe me when I say...there is very little they could do to ruin our profession more. We're already non-viable from a playability standpoint, and I don't see a lot of Creature Handlers sticking up for entertainers and avoiding the use of AFK healing or buffbots.
Having said that, what you describe, while perfectly reasonable from a reality standpoint, is bad game design. Your pets are your primary weapons, that's what a creature handlers IS. I agree with you that nobody should be able to take your pets away and use them against you.
You have my support.
BlindTyldak
Tue Jul 06, 2004 9:43 am
#3
Actually, I think you would be surprised . . . many CH's (and other professions as well) do support the dancer cause, as well as those of other professions. I don't think many players understand how much we really do fight for one another. The AFK macroers hurt us as well, because many of them took CH as bang for their buck for their unused SP before we got hit hard with the reballance nerf. We still suffer every day for that, just as you do standing in the cantinas next to a bunch of pixels getting the same benefits that you do for playing, by doing nothing.
I'd ask this though . . . when's the last time a dancer came to the CH forums to ask for help? Personally, I think this is something we could all do more often, because judgements in game design affect us ALL, not just the single profession that it appears to. I know that if a profession came to the CH forums and asked us to stand with them, I would, because we never know when we could use their help someday in return.
picklesSW
Tue Jul 06, 2004 10:02 am
#4
"I'd ask this though . . . when's the last time a dancer came to the CH forums to ask for help?"
Honestly, I wouldn't dare. While I know there are people in every profession that would gladly support us, I'm also aware that such a post would likely get flamed from here to neverland and drowned in a sea of "Dancers work! Our profession does not, so get your whining out of here!" Every time we go to a server forum, for example, and cry out against someone who set up a buffbot, our posts are ridiculed and drowned out by people actually attacking us. Attacking us for standing up for our profession, because they don't want to have to search to find an actual entertainer, they want NPCs to do our job.
So most of us stick to our own forums.
I don't see much of a benefit encouraging an 'us vs them' attitude amongst the player base. I believe every profession has the right to have their bugs addressed, things balanced, their playstyle made fun and their game made rewarding. Every profession deserves additional content as the game matures. So I'm not going to stand here and slam people who cry out for improvements to their profession. It's hypocritical to do so, and damaging as well. People already have enough reason to resent and hate the entertainers.
Honestly, I wouldn't dare. While I know there are people in every profession that would gladly support us, I'm also aware that such a post would likely get flamed from here to neverland and drowned in a sea of "Dancers work! Our profession does not, so get your whining out of here!" Every time we go to a server forum, for example, and cry out against someone who set up a buffbot, our posts are ridiculed and drowned out by people actually attacking us. Attacking us for standing up for our profession, because they don't want to have to search to find an actual entertainer, they want NPCs to do our job.
So most of us stick to our own forums.
I don't see much of a benefit encouraging an 'us vs them' attitude amongst the player base. I believe every profession has the right to have their bugs addressed, things balanced, their playstyle made fun and their game made rewarding. Every profession deserves additional content as the game matures. So I'm not going to stand here and slam people who cry out for improvements to their profession. It's hypocritical to do so, and damaging as well. People already have enough reason to resent and hate the entertainers.
Panthu
Tue Jul 06, 2004 10:06 am
#5
Well said Javier.
picklesSW wrote:
I don't see much of a benefit encouraging an 'us vs them' attitude amongst the player base. I believe every profession has the right to have their bugs addressed, things balanced, their playstyle made fun and their game made rewarding. Every profession deserves additional content as the game matures. So I'm not going to stand here and slam people who cry out for improvements to their profession. It's hypocritical to do so, and damaging as well. People already have enough reason to resent and hate the entertainers.
Kreistor
Tue Jul 06, 2004 10:13 am
#6
BlindTyldak wrote:
I'd ask this though . . . when's the last time a dancer came to the CH forums to ask for help?
The CH boards specifically? I can't answer that. However, a few of us have tried to do what you are doing now, to explain to others out there the troubles we are having.
At the very least we are given the brush off. I don't even want to describe how they respond to us at the most.
But I will tell you this: my main toon is a Master Dancer / Novice Fencer / aspiring Master CH. I do rely on my pets alot more than most because of my weak combat ability. I never expect to fight a jedi, since I'm not into PvP, but I definitely see this at most outstanding problem.
I support your cause.
BlindTyldak
Tue Jul 06, 2004 10:17 am
#7
That saddens me. As a former dancer myself (I only quit because I changed characters and it didn't fit my new one . . . I loved the profession) who based her profession around working with the public, I am very disappointed that other entertainers would instead choose to hide and say 'to each their own and I won't be involved". This game belongs to all of us, and only by working together can we make it better. Every little bit of support helps.
picklesSW
Tue Jul 06, 2004 10:31 am
#8
"This game belongs to all of us, and only by working together can we make it better. Every little bit of support helps."
Yes, but I doubt we're going to get that support from our fellow players. Let me explain why.
You want a fix so that Jedi cannot take your pets away and use them against you. This affects CHs and Jedi. Jedi might have something to say against your fix, but if it's a small part of their repertoire of gifts, then maybe they won't mind so much.
Entertainers want the complete removal of the ability to heal or buff while AFK. This issue affects entertainers...and every single other frikken profession that gains battle fatigue, mind wounds or can find the use in a mind buff. That's like 90% of the game population, and our 'fix' in their eyes is only going to affect their game in a detrimental sense in that they're going to have to look much harder to get healing or buffs, and they'll probably need to pay more money more often to get them. In essense, what we need in order for our profession to get healthy is at odds with the needs and desires of the majority of the player base. Our only prayer is that the devs are able to make the determination that the very existence of the social players in their game is a bit more important than the immediate gratification of the other professions at our expense.
That is what we are battling, and that is why I do not expect our fellow players to back us.
Yes, but I doubt we're going to get that support from our fellow players. Let me explain why.
You want a fix so that Jedi cannot take your pets away and use them against you. This affects CHs and Jedi. Jedi might have something to say against your fix, but if it's a small part of their repertoire of gifts, then maybe they won't mind so much.
Entertainers want the complete removal of the ability to heal or buff while AFK. This issue affects entertainers...and every single other frikken profession that gains battle fatigue, mind wounds or can find the use in a mind buff. That's like 90% of the game population, and our 'fix' in their eyes is only going to affect their game in a detrimental sense in that they're going to have to look much harder to get healing or buffs, and they'll probably need to pay more money more often to get them. In essense, what we need in order for our profession to get healthy is at odds with the needs and desires of the majority of the player base. Our only prayer is that the devs are able to make the determination that the very existence of the social players in their game is a bit more important than the immediate gratification of the other professions at our expense.
That is what we are battling, and that is why I do not expect our fellow players to back us.
Schardour
Tue Jul 06, 2004 10:37 am
#9
Javynever stated that the Dancer community would not support the CH cause, if that's what you believed
Message Edited by Schardour on 07-06-2004 01:37 PM
Drygo
Tue Jul 06, 2004 10:38 am
#10
BlindTyldak wrote:
That saddens me. As a former dancer myself (I only quit because I changed characters and it didn't fit my new one . . . I loved the profession) who based her profession around working with the public, I am very disappointed that other entertainers would instead choose to hide and say 'to each their own and I won't be involved". This game belongs to all of us, and only by working together can we make it better. Every little bit of support helps.
I support your cause, and everyone here who has posted supports your cause. The only thing people are saying is that Entertainers have tried extremely hard to get our point across to the other professions and players. We may not have posted specifically to the Creature Handler forum. However, we have posted to every other forum. And, nearly every single time we do so we are ridiculed, put down, made fun of, and treated with utter contempt. Believe me, if any professions understand what it's like to be small in number, and have our viability taken away it's the Entertainers. We support you. But, good luck in getting the uber leet combat professions to support you because generally they just don't care. You may, however, have better luck with them because you don't provide a service that they need. They do, however, want dancer and musician buffs. And, they don't care how using buffbots affects the real players of our professions. So, it's quite possible they won't degrade the CH's like they consitently degrade the Entertainers. Whatever happens, though, I do agree with what you say. Jedi shouldn't have this ability.
Quite frankly, Jedi are pretty much taking all of our abilities away already. They'll be able to heal mind wounds and battle fatigue on themselves and others, rendering us even more useless. It has happened to us, and it doesn't make me happy in the least. There will come a point where there will be no point to playing this game unless you're a Jedi. The Entertainers were the first and hardest hit by the Jedi system (holocrons and all) since the very beginning. Believe me, we understand.
picklesSW
Tue Jul 06, 2004 10:48 am
#11
Schardour wrote:Javynever stated that the Dancer community would not support the CH cause, if that's what you believed01:37 PM
Yah, hopefully you understood...I was talking about the reasons we tend not to use other forums as a platform for our own grievances. In terms of supporting the causes of others, that's different, and I'm sure lots of entertainers do, especially since a lot of them have chosen those other professions as part of their career choice.
But enough about us, this was supposed to be a thread asking for help on behalf of CHs.
Reiella
Tue Jul 06, 2004 11:36 am
#12
picklesSW wrote:
Yes, but I doubt we're going to get that support from our fellow players. Let me explain why.
You want a fix so that Jedi cannot take your pets away and use them against you. This affects CHs and Jedi. Jedi might have something to say against your fix, but if it's a small part of their repertoire of gifts, then maybe they won't mind so much.
Not sure, it's in the Force Power tree, which is percieved to be notoriously underpowered. Removing what little perks are there will probably be frustrating to Jedi. That said, most Jedi don't use the Force Power tree because it isn't really that optimal except for Force Run and the "Annoy CH" power at Master. Most Jedi I know are using the same or mostly similiar template.
OckVofad
Tue Jul 06, 2004 11:49 am
#13
This is the perfect reason for everyone to start buying droids instead of pets!!!
*crouches to avoid flying eggs*
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