Dancer Archive
Thread: Its ALL in the numbers
FlawedDiamond wrote:
I was talking to a friend of mine in the software business and HE explained what's happened to Dancing after laughing at me.
The guys at SOE Corporate who run SWG are not Gamers. They're people involved in Selling software. Their bonuses are based on Unit sales. They're Marketers not Gamers. They make their living selling software. And that's what their concern is and what they're payed to do.
A Marketer is not interested in giving up his $50k bonus becasue of the concerns of players.
What's easier to market? A game based on Socializing and Social Interaction? Or a game where you can show lots of pictures and videos of players killing BIG monsters and other players with Light Sabers?
So by replacing us with buffbots, it makes it easier to attract more 13 yr old casual gamers who want to run out and kill things with the minimal interaction with others. The concerns and gripes of a few hundred...Dancers... is of little importance compared tothe issue of selling a few thousand additional units of software through a marketing campaign based on Light Sabers and killing stuff.
That was his take on it and he makes a great living doing Exactly that... Marketting software. When it comes time to place advertising in the magazines, its about the Broadest segment of the market to whom he can market the product. Its NOT about the gaming community and their conerns inside the game.
Its about the Numbers.
I imagine this thread will be deleted. Wouldnt surprise me at all.
But its cemented my decision to drop Dancing and prolly SWG as well. Best of luck to the rest of you.
A. I see no reason why this thread would be deleted. There are many others like it.
B. Did you not know there was marketing? Did you not know this game has a teen rating? Did you not know teens play this game? Did you not know there would be hunting in this game? Really, I'm confused on which part you are just now coming to realize.
C. We are a group that is being marketed to with this game too. Not instead of combat players, just in addition to. There are games that are 100% Social and lack what I consider game elements, but this isn't one of those games.
Those games are sometimes called MMOSG's (not to be confused with Massive Multiplayer Online Sports Games, which are also called MMOSG's). They are "graphical chats." There is no issue with having interaction with other player types in those games, because there are no other player types.
The grand experiment here was combining the elements of that type of "game" with in a real MMORPG. Social and crafting aspects were given a great amount of attention in SWG in the beginning. It is only now that the Combat aspects, both PvP and PvE are really being looked at.
During this time that combat is finally getting it's much needed attention, we are having some serious side effects. It is those side effects we are trying to get attention on and help with: i.e. Buff Bots, self buffing, ways to make money.
The cry when I started playing was "this isn't TSO!" and yes, it isn't. SWG is much more than TSO ever even tried to be... or any MMOSG for that matter. This is an awesome game, it's getting even better. Our "role" as a valid Live Played MMORPG Profession has been lost as a side effect of other changes that needed to happen for the health of the game. If we are wanting a stronger role, then we have to ask for that. I think it is justified. I think that now we can see that it is needed to have our game within the greater game.
Technically though, there is interdependence (buff bots show that) and we are able to do our main "Social Gamer" thing (graphical chat)... technically, we are working. The fact is, we want more. We want a real RPG role. We want to be a full fledged Prof. How to do that with out turning into "crafters, bards, or support" like so many of us seem to fear is the weird part. I think we obviously need more in the way of a traditional role. Maybe healers? Maybe some minor field support? Maybe some "crafter support?' I just don't know. This hasn't ever been done before.
What I do know is, we aren't exactly making this easy on the Devs right now. We have to work out this Social Game/Traditional RPG Role thing on our own if we don't like what we've been given.
You were one of the first posters whose posts I remember reading FlawedDiamond, I've been sorry to see you so upset lately. I hope we can get back the parts of the game that those of you who have been around from the begining remember and miss so much, but I believe it will happen by working with the game, not against it.
That's a supposition that cannot be proved unluss you also have in your hands the number of people who hit the cancel button, and for a reason scribbled in "AFKers suck".
Message Edited by PoetDancer on 07-08-2004 01:15 PM
ArgentWulf wrote:
I remember reading an online news report a couple months agoconcerning online games and that the fastest growing demographic was for marriedwomen in their 40's. This group had no use for your standard shooters or such but prefered games of social interaction. I just wish I could remember whereI came across it so I could post a link. When I read it, it just reinforced the idea that there is a largley untappedmarket for social game play. Maybe SOE should pay attention.
ArgentWulf wrote:
I remember reading an online news report a couple months agoconcerning online games and that the fastest growing demographic was for marriedwomen in their 40's. This group had no use for your standard shooters or such but prefered games of social interaction. I just wish I could remember whereI came across it so I could post a link. When I read it, it just reinforced the idea that there is a largley untappedmarket for social game play. Maybe SOE should pay attention.
It's true ArgentWulf.....I broke down last month and finally bought the Sims Online because I actually like the regular game, and I happened by its box at the software store. As far as I could tell.....the game is a huge chat program with avatars....it was incredibly boring to me, and before I stopped playing it (about 4 days later ) I decided to go ahead and take advantage of its social aspect (since thats basically all it had going for it). Every single person I met....was a 40-something mother (literally, no generalizing) who played the game all day at home while waiting for their families to get home. They were all very nice people, and I couldn't help but try to lure them to SWG lol.....a lot of these people had many accounts....one person had 9 of them O_o
Wow...seems like socializingcan beprofitable after all 
FuschiaD wrote:
TSO was my first online gaming experience. It's also how I met my boyfriend. The degeneration of that game literally hurt me, because it was SO much fun in beta, and it evolved into something that mostpeople couldn't stand playing for longer than half an hour at a time. To be honest, I'm surprised it hasn't been shut down yet. But it just got to the point where, not only was it not fun, but the developers stopped caring what the players thought, and stopped being careful about saying so.
heh...yes, this is where I originally met the lovely FuschiaD. (no, I'm not her boyfriend, lol)
As others have said, there is a huge untapped market of social gameplayers. Not all of them are women in their mid-40's (points to self, as a male in his early 30's). While it is true that TSO had much lower than expected numbers originally, I still believe that if the devs had gotten their act together, added content quicker, and weren't so disparaging to the playerbase, they'd have a really wonderful game on their hands. Alas, that was not the case, obviously.
But, even though TSO was regarded as a "failure" it still had a regular subscription rate of around 75-100K when I left. It could have been a lot more, if they had only taken the care to nurture the game instead of giving up on it. The point being, however, that considering that, as someone else said, TSO is a *strictly* social game, with really nothing at all else to offer, it shows that there is a significant number of social players. The main reason I left TSO and joined SWG, is because not only did I have the option of social gameplay here, but I had a lot of variety and choices, which TSO severely lacked. There are a lot of people out there who want to play socially, but also want other options of gameplay. TSO eventually became very boring to me because there was no danger, no consequences, nothing to do, nowhere to grow with my avatar/character. SWG, on the other hand, offers all of this, plus the social gameplay experience. And, I'd be willing to bet there are an awful lot of people who enjoy having a game where you can both be social, and go out and kill stuff. When I was leaving TSO, I saw an awful lot of migration of TSO people to SWG. The reason for that is the social gameplay and variety that SWG has to offer. It would be a real shame for SWG to ignore a potential playerbase of 100K + people.
There are a lot of people out there, myself included, who love how SWG offers the social and the...killing, etc. If SWG continues to ignore the social aspect of this game, then many of us will choose to find another game that offers a social playstyle. Their "experiment" is a very valid and worthy one, considering how many people really do enjoy the social playstyle. They just need to stop ignoring us. Because, even though we may love the social, we want to be viable as well. I left TSO because there was no economy and no interdepedence, no goals, nothing...just that virtual graphical chatroom. I was really hoping SWG would give me the social, plus the economy, plus the interdependence, and all the choices and styles that ensue. For a very long time, I did get that from SWG. But, my viability in the economy, and my interdependence is now greatly suffering. I want SWG to succeed, and I really love this game. But, if another game comes out that offers me the social and the choices that SWG offered me a year ago...chances are I might have to migrate again.
So, in my longwinded as always repetitive post I'm saying, don't ignore the entertainers and social players, they are a *significant* portion of your playerbase. Don't throw that away, because you have the potential for something really great here. Make us viable again so that we can both be social, and economically interdependent.