Dancer Archive

Thread: The Customer in a World of Dedicated Unattended Buffers.

PoetDancer
Thu Jul 01, 2004 5:30 pm
#1




No doubt unattended buffbots upset us. But why? No doubt many players like buffbots, but why? And no doubt everyone feels that we are not treated adequately enough, and this extends not only to we who play the professions, but also to those who need our services, as well as the very buffbot owners themselves.


But one thing EVERYONE can agree upon during the holocraze is how very vulnerable we all really are, how disposable we all really are, and how intergal we all really are. Because the holocraze was sheer madness, and it turned the servers into a madhouse. Players crafted things only to destroy. Players applied medicine to those who willingly tumbled on the floor, rather than heal the injured. And as we know, players created macros to dance for audiences that were not there.


Indeed, the unattendee was a child of the holocraze. The Buffbot was a child of unattendedness that will outlive the holocraze. This coming time after the Jedi publish will be the golden age of the unattended buffer. And it is going to have many far reaching implications for the playerbase. And quite frankly, if you think it isn't going to affect you as customers, you'd better start thinking of playing in a world of bots. Because its fast coming to this point, and itmay in factbe completely different than what you have now.


Because you have a holocraze now with plenty of motivated characters who are more than willing to dish out their game mechanics to as many people as possible. The prime reason unattendedness in entertainment was pursued by many players is that it was simply a temporary activity that must be done so that it will be over. But with those who place dedicated, unattended buffers, it will never be over. And the motivations to create such a character have really nothing to do with derriving enjoyment with what it does. It has everything to do with making it useful for something other than the enjoyment of playing it, be it to provide a city or PA with game mechanics, or some other reasons. And make no mistake, buffbot owners by-in-large think the only thing entertainment does is tend to battle fatiuge, heal the mind, and enhance the mind. And indeed, these things are valuable. Its why they place them in the first place. But if this is the extent to which they go, they will invariably discover what many of us have discovered all along, that these mechanics do not in and of themselves entail wealth, respect, and admiration. In fact, they will discover quite the opposite is true. That any attempt to justify why one should get wealth, admiration, and respect for merely skill animating will make one HATED.


Now we haven't seen much evidence from the driving forces behind this game: the ultra rich and effective "1337," or the big PAs that this is a problem with buffbots. But then again, buffbots are not as of yet bearing the burden of the BF healing on the servers. The grinders still hold sway. But once the grinders are gone, we will be left with two groups to service the galaxies: dedicated unattended buffers, and live players. Both can dish out game mechanics. In fact, buffbots are very good at dishing them out. They dish them out at hours we can't, in conditions we can't, and in a sustainable way that we can't. Indeed, when looking at it from our perspective, it seems like a daunting proposition to think that we can even compete with them for clients. Because if mechanics are all patrons want, a bot gives them everything they need.


But just because these things are needed does not mean that this makes players love to go to the cantina to get them. A lot love it about as much as they love to stand in front of the ticket droid. And quite frankly, they hate going to buffbots just as much as they hate going to us, because they HATE THE CANTINA IN GENERAL. The only way they will ever possibly come to enjoy it is if one of us gives them something novel, unexpected, suprising, or enjoyable. It can be a hard time trying to convince the 1337, but at least we have the opportunity to try.


Buffbots don't even try to give you anything between /startwatch and /stopwatch. They simply counteract this with the ability to leap beyond the constraints of what is playable. And I'm not saying this because its right or wrong what a buffbot owner does, but only how it differs from what we who are self motivated do. And though the 1337 may be relieved when they finally are able to get away from the cantina, rest assured that they are equally relieved when they get away from a buffbot's cantina. And though they may not tip or respect us because we do meaningless things in their eyes, I have to imagine they are equally stingy and resentful toward a buffbot. Because its not the entertainer they hate as much as the fact that they have to sit there in the first place. And its not so much that players intrinsically enjoy going to the cantina as much as players want to get it out of the way in order to do other things. And our jobs as entertainers was to make this cumbersome procedure somewhat less cumbersome through the refinement of our artistic and social techniques. Because its not in my power as an entertainer to prevent you from going to the cantina. It IS in my power to give you something that makes this time go by easier in the time between /startwatch and /stopwatch.


Why do the 1337, cities, and PAs like buffbots? Because buffbots are available to give out game mechanics far in excess of what any single player can give them. And as of this point, they will give out game mechanics equally, reliably, and efficiently regardless of whether you tip them or not. That's why they like buffbots. But make no mistake, they still think entertinment is simply a heap of mechanics with futility attached.


But the truth of the matter is that buffbots were never created to pull one over on entertainers. Buffbots were created to pull one over on one's enemies. Because from the earliest times, individual advantage seekers used second accounts to provide ready access to mind buffs without the search and wait that everyone else had to do.


Which is why they get all up in arms when we step up around here and talk about our "self importance." They complain about our "hangups" like not buffing them because we are too busy. Not buffing them because they didn't tip us. Not buffing them because they are of a particular faction or PA. Not buffing them because they were rude to us, and so on. Buffbots aren't people that have such hangups. That's why they keep on lauding the buffbot owners with praise for their beneficence...for now.


Because the only reason buffbot owners have been so egalitarian at this point is because there were always a legion of hologrinders operating around who had really nothing to lose by setting a macro for free. Only disadvantage to the holosea in the grind capitals is that it took place in only a few locations. Buffbots were egalitarian in the sense that they went where no hologrinder dare tread: to Lok, or Rori, or Dathomir, or the new city that popped up in the boondocks. And if a buffbot was nasty or exclusive, it simply went ignored, and the person simply went to Theed. But those days are numbered, and soon the holosea will dry up. And there will be nowhere else to go but to two groups: career entertainers, and career buffbots.


I predict a very tough time ahead for live performers. Because the buffbots will be bearing the brunt of servicing the galaxies. That is, until they develop a sense of "self importance."


And they will. Because they will start to see how many people use them day in and day out, and say to themselves, "I give them these things they need 24/7, it costs me $15.00 a month to do it, and they'd better start doing things condusive to my benefit, or they can get their own buffbot." And they will start charging. Either through a subscription service, a cantina entry fee, or a /deny list they macro upon booting if the E-Mails showing tips aren't there. And the hangups that we entertainers are guilty of will be replaced by the hangups of the buffbot owner, which are much more draconian, unpredictable, nasty, and uncompromising than any one of us are willing to be.


And at this point, I have to ask you players a very serious question: Do you really, really want to put something as essential as BF healing in the exclusive hands of another character's alt?


Because its not in our interest as live players to fling around /deny willy nilly. That's why a lot of us do not make a habit out of it if at all possible. Its not in our interest to push customers away. We want to encourage customers, not discourage them. Our finances and reputation depend upon doing so. Unlike the crafter who can name his price, or the combatant who can earn his keep in isolation from others, we as live players have always depended on the generosity of others, and it means we have to be generous in turn. Because players are usually in a bad mood when they come to us, and many of them would rather not go there at all if they had a choice. Its why I tell new players to this thing that, "you attract more Kreetles with Carbosyrup than Sarlacc bile." Because we know that if we want to make a career in entertaining, we must make it so people like to be around us. Its the one thing we do that the buffbots can't, and so we try to take advantage of it by making players have fun while we give them buffs or healing.


But you have to remember that buffbots operate by a much different set of assumptions than live players. Because the buffbot owner could care less about growing an entertainment career. They simply don't know how one can, or by what means. And its not that they are not aware of their shortcommings, but that they try to work with what THEY can. Because Carbosyrup can only come forth if a live player makes the attempt to be entertaining to an audience. Buffbots are boring, they know it, and so the only tool they have to compete with us is the availability of their game mechanics...and Sarlacc bile to withold it.


I wouldn't put it past a buffbot owner to charge exhorbitant rates to get on a join list. Indeed, this is already starting. I would not put it past a buffbot owner to start making out /deny lists of those of a different faction. I would not put it past a buffbot owner to /ban normally good tipping players from a cantina for something as trite as a PvP battle, or a forum post that was not of his or her liking. I wouldn't put it past several buffbots to create a buffing cartel in which a subscription fee gets you access to a master level buffbot on every world. And I wouldn't put it past buffbot owners to justify their actions to an increasingly upset player base with the same logic they have been using all along, "I could care less if you like it. We provide a service, pay $15.00 to do it, and if you don't like it, either pick up entertainment or get your own buffbot."


Because the buffbot owner's problem is much different than that of an entertainer player. A buffbot owner does not have to worry about getting people to use the buffbot, it is concerned with preventing people from using the buffbot.


It was never for the purposes of profit that a buffbot exists. And while I understand that many buffbots do make rather sizeable ammounts of income, the mechanics of what they do are by their very nature without value. This will only become more apparent with time. Because while its true that a buffbot operating soley within one cantina may justify a price of 10,000 credits to use, what will the buffbot owner do if another buffbot parks itself next to the first one for 5,000 credits? Indeed, what will the buffbot owner do if a buffbot parks itself in the cantina and buffs for one credit? It really does not change the reasons for putting a buffbot in the world at all. Because there are really no limiting factors preventing a buffbot owner from doing exactly that, and STILL come out with one more credit than the owner would have gotten if the buffbot were not there at all.


Because buffbots are not amongst us to gain profits for the owners. While this is an added bonus to the owners, the buffbot owner places the buffbot for reasons of influencing the game world in a way to the owners liking. THAT is why buffbots are placed.


And if it pleases the owner to write a /deny macro to keep a player that beat the owner in combat from using it, so be it. If it pleases the owner to /deny a board poster from using the buffbot, so be it as well. If it pleases the owner to /deny entire city populations, entire guilds, and entire factions from using it, it is really of no consequence to the owner. Because buffbots are not here for the credits. Buffbots are here to make the owners powerful. And this power comes from the fact that an owner can influence a particular environment to his liking through the issuance of game mechanics.


And it will be at this point that entertainment customers will truly understand the importance of supporting, encouraging, and maintaining those who really like and are good at entertaining. And I hope for their sakes there will still be some of us left. Because we do it for motivations that are understandable, honorable, worthwhile, and reasonable. We look for reasons to make you want to come to us. Not figure out how to keep you away from using us. We want to allieviate your battle fatiuge. Not keep your battle fatiuge hostage as some barganing chip. We try to make it so you want to tip us, not make you scared not to. We do not presume that the game mechanics we give to you are ours to give, but rather, yours to receive.


Because players are all concerned with the same things more or less: fame, reputation, personality, success, and esteem. These things are important to all of us, be you an entertainer or not. And we all try to do things that will enhance our reputation, and consider carefully the reprocussions of such acts that may harm it. Believe it or not, the /deny command is much more harmful to the denyer than the one denied. Because it burns a bridge that can seldom, if ever, be repaired. But I do not think buffbot owners view their role in the same way. Because they do not see their success or failure as a player through their experience as a buffer, but through their experience as their main character. The auxiliary character is simply a tool or an ornament to a main character, and is enjoyable only insofar as it is useful to a main character.


So to all those that find virtue in uattended buffers, I fear that you may come to resent them. Be careful how you act amongst other players. The buffbot you rely on today may /deny you tomorrow for reasons that only the owner can explain...IF you knew who the owner was. The buffbot you run today for a 10,000 credit entrance fee may soon have to compete with a buffbot only charging a 5 credit entrance fee a mere 1000m away. The base you raid today may get you /denied from half a dozen buffbots on several worlds. Because your use of buffbots was never predicated on any notion of convinience, or market dynamics, or even fun. It is predicated on notions of exclusivity, manipulation, and power.


So if you want a world of buffbots? So be it. But before you jump readily into a world you do not yet know, take some time to think about what you had before, what you have now, and how it will be different in a world where BF healing is performed by alts that operate by a different set of assumptions than players operate under.


Message Edited by PoetDancer on 11-07-2004 03:50 PM



Madame Sirii Ajaan
August 2003-September 15, 2005
"There is a difference between being /watched and being WATCHED."
Khyriana
Thu Jul 01, 2004 10:19 pm
#2

I had decided today that I was giving up dance and music because in the face of all, it seemed pointless and futile. I must admit, it still looks decidedly dark, but you make salient and very valid points... both about the present and the future. Thank you for taking the time to write a post I was considering making and for doing so in a manner that is thorough and concise on every point ofthe matter.


Crossposting this to my server's forum. It needs to be read.


Again, thank you.



----
I've escaped the cantina at last. Liberated from the ingrates, I soar, unbound and giddy.
Darkesong
Thu Jul 01, 2004 10:23 pm
#3


You always put things in an intelligent and succint manner Sirii...I don't see how it could have been said any better. I hope that the ones who need toread posts like this will sit up and take notice of your efforts.


*tries to be optimistic*





#Darkesong#

t
Elder Tailor and Entertainer t

tMidnite, Jedi of Starsider tIkidri, Tailor of Starsidert


tMistress of Far Too Many Alts to Namet

Padtai
Thu Jul 01, 2004 10:34 pm
#4

Wow..well said. If I knew how to cross post--I would to the doctor forums b/c the fact is--many doctors suffer the very same issues...some try to deny it saying liver player is going to be better than an AFK...yet new docbots appear all the time, fewer docs craft their own medicines...and it all begins to look very much the same as the march of the bots in the entertainer professions.
Dr_Miroka
Fri Jul 02, 2004 3:21 am
#5

One of the greatest posts I've ever read! If I wouldn't preferlive Entertainers already, I would do now for sure.

Thank you fortrying to change something against a presumablymajority opinion.



Cedric Miroka - Spiritwood Doctor

Shean Miroka - Spiritwood Ranger

Chimaera
ChilastraBH
Fri Jul 02, 2004 3:43 am
#6

great post


very true
Smuggler757
Fri Jul 02, 2004 4:15 am
#7






Padtai wrote:

Wow..well said. If I knew how to cross post--I would to the doctor forums b/c the fact is--many doctors suffer the very same issues...some try to deny it saying liver player is going to be better than an AFK...yet new docbots appear all the time, fewer docs craft their own medicines...and it all begins to look very much the same as the march of the bots in the entertainer professions.






Really? I am a master Doc, and I didn't think that doctor buffs bot were even possible. I know how entertainers do it, but I can't think of how a macro could take the place of a Doctor. Hmm, very interesting.



Arrite Formerly known as Ecau Lightingdust
Master Bio Engineer
3 weeks old and heading to the Village - Neener Neener Neener
Smuggler757
Fri Jul 02, 2004 4:20 am
#8

Very well written post PoetDancer - At the beginning, I was thinking, what a good idea - buffbot chain, 1 entry fee for 24/7 buffs on every planet - but by the end of your post, I had changed my mind.



Arrite Formerly known as Ecau Lightingdust
Master Bio Engineer
3 weeks old and heading to the Village - Neener Neener Neener
Utess
Fri Jul 02, 2004 5:48 am
#9








Smuggler757 wrote:




Really? I am a master Doc, and I didn't think that doctor buffs bot were even possible. I know how entertainers do it, but I can't think of how a macro could take the place of a Doctor. Hmm, very interesting.





It's possible. You just don't see them as often in public places. Many who do buffs in public cities might use the macros needed but will still be kinda at the keyboard. The reason is cost. Our buffs cost nothing but time, Doc buffs cost resources to make. So, having a doc buffbot in public is something most players don't wnt to do because they'll likely lose money.


That said, they *are* used frequently by guilds and some player cities. And it is as much a growing problem on their end, as it is on ours.





________________________________

'Tess

- Utess Pero: Master Entertainer, Master Dancer, Master Musician, ID
- Andria Pasretti: Master Artisan, Master Merchant, Teras Kasi Master
- Tatiyana Karkuf: Master Medic, Master Combat Medic, Master Doctor
Kreistor
Fri Jul 02, 2004 7:45 am
#10

I'm just blown away at how your posts bring light into our dismall little situation.


Thank you Sirii





Ub-ick Esava
----------
Bria - Working towards Master Dancer one fall at a time

Lowca - Master Dancer Extraordinaire
*CENSORS* Cantina, Honor's Keep, Corellia,
Vermicious_Knid
Fri Jul 02, 2004 7:50 am
#11

Easiest way is to put the doctor in a house with an admission fee of whatever you want to charge for the buff, then have the doc target the player who walks in and pretty much run a standard buff macro.


Of course, you have to be overt or else some wiseacre will come in overt and you'll get a tef if you buff them. Alternately, just be neutral and put on the sign out front that you can't buff any overts and they don't get their money back.



-




Every time I log in I'm terrified they changed the game to Dance Dance Revolution without telling anyone after holding a "focus group"

satanis
Fri Jul 02, 2004 8:00 am
#12

Thats an interesting treatise on the matter. Now, forgive me for saying that while I think afk buffing should be discouraged I think your barking up the wrong tree.

This is obviously the choir around hear as the Dancer forum exhibits strong lobbying against buff bots.


I live in one of the busiest cities on Chimeara. I say one of, yet I havent visited any that are as busy. We have over 200 characters in the guild, representing maybe 100+ players. We have 3 additional guilds in our city. We regularly have in excess of 30+ imperials also in our city. It's a stronghold for our faction.

Would you believe at times you cant find an entertainer for love nor money? You see not everyone is playing this game for a social rpg. We are focussed on PvP. I am focussed on PvP. I want those things you describe as bad: service, availability, reliability, prompt responses.

Quite frankly I'm prepared to do what it takes to get them. There are several entertainers in our guild as it happens. but none of them are main characters. I myself acquired an alt and trained in the Musician profession.

I now offer a service to my friends.
I now offer a service to my guild.
I now offer a service to the visitors of our fair city.

This is not a bad thing! We dont care if you come into our cantina and roleplay. But if you come into our city for PvP, imperial missions or to find a great group of active imperial players - we provide everything you need.

So aside from wound and fatigue healing, one of those things is Entertainer buffs.

I'm not sure why you'd pick dancer in a RPG unless you want to dance. To me that suggests you wish to RP and be engaged in a social game. What do you care if there is an ignorable non-rp'er in the corner? He's not going to be the only one spoiling immersion (i'd like to ignore all spatial within 100m of a starport.. nothing else, just within 100m of a starport.) What do you care if that ignorable roleplayer is doing something for a bunch of people you wouldn't want to interact with anyway?

If its about a source of income.. yep thats a problem with anyone. Your services are performed gratis. The entertainer buff situation is based on trust someone will either pay or perform first and hope the other party tips or rewards accordingly.

I'm already running around in a world full of alts. Im interacting with the active of half it and having fun.



EDIT: oops.. hit enter a bit soon there

Message Edited by satanis on 07-02-2004 04:02 PM



KDS Pharmaceuticals by Stanis (Chimaera)
In Stock - Starship Crafting Stations (Shipwright Soon!)
KDS Mall, Luxor, Lok (-573 -3127)
KDS Installations and Deeds, Luxor Mall

Vorpaks
Fri Jul 02, 2004 11:03 am
#13



satanis wrote:
Thats an interesting treatise on the matter. Now, forgive me for saying that while I think afk buffing should be discouraged I think your barking up the wrong tree.

This is obviously the choir around hear as the Dancer forum exhibits strong lobbying against buff bots.


I live in one of the busiest cities on Chimeara. I say one of, yet I havent visited any that are as busy. We have over 200 characters in the guild, representing maybe 100+ players. We have 3 additional guilds in our city. We regularly have in excess of 30+ imperials also in our city. It's a stronghold for our faction.

Would you believe at times you cant find an entertainer for love nor money? You see not everyone is playing this game for a social rpg. We are focussed on PvP. I am focussed on PvP. I want those things you describe as bad: service, availability, reliability, prompt responses.

Quite frankly I'm prepared to do what it takes to get them. There are several entertainers in our guild as it happens. but none of them are main characters. I myself acquired an alt and trained in the Musician profession.

I now offer a service to my friends.
I now offer a service to my guild.
I now offer a service to the visitors of our fair city.

This is not a bad thing! We dont care if you come into our cantina and roleplay. But if you come into our city for PvP, imperial missions or to find a great group of active imperial players - we provide everything you need.

So aside from wound and fatigue healing, one of those things is Entertainer buffs.

I'm not sure why you'd pick dancer in a RPG unless you want to dance. To me that suggests you wish to RP and be engaged in a social game. What do you care if there is an ignorable non-rp'er in the corner? He's not going to be the only one spoiling immersion (i'd like to ignore all spatial within 100m of a starport.. nothing else, just within 100m of a starport.) What do you care if that ignorable roleplayer is doing something for a bunch of people you wouldn't want to interact with anyway?

If its about a source of income.. yep thats a problem with anyone. Your services are performed gratis. The entertainer buff situation is based on trust someone will either pay or perform first and hope the other party tips or rewards accordingly.

I'm already running around in a world full of alts. Im interacting with the active of half it and having fun.



EDIT: oops.. hit enter a bit soon there

Message Edited by satanis on 07-02-2004 04:02 PM





Just curious satanis - when another guild comes in to raid your base do you let them buff themselves first using your buff bot? If not, it kinda illustrates what sirii is talking about. People who cannot make their own buff-bots because of lack of an alt will start to depend on the bots they know they can use (ones not denied them because of faction or peronal issues). If the bot they depend on decides that they are going to set up in a house with an entrance fee, then they have no choice but to pay whatever the bot owner demands. Or they can go to the Coronet or Theed cantinas and use a buff-bot there.

Buff-bots in the NPC cities are basically loot-campers. I made this point in another post so I won't go into it again. They want what they want and they don't care if it ruins the area for other people. I am pretty sure that the developers do not consider loot-camping an acceptable game-play technique. Eventually they will put in ways to prevent afk-entertainer macros. So ironically these buff bots are not only ruining the entertainer's game-play now, they are ruining your afk-entertainer gameplay later on.



Paks
Master Ranger/Master Creature Handler
-I support ATK play

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