Dancer Archive
Thread: The Customer in a World of Dedicated Unattended Buffers.
PoetDancer
Fri Jul 02, 2004 6:19 pm
#14
Oh, Stanis, why is it that everybody who runs buffbots think this post is some kind of lobby against dedicated unattended buffing? Because I am not explaining in this post why unattended service and buffing should be eliminated. I just am explaining, or even speculating as to how the dynamics of entertainment services will be different than what we have now. You be the judge of whether it will increase your play value or not.
But make no mistake, Stanis, you did not create this unattended character to be played, you created this unattended character to give you some benefit; and a very valuable one at that. Because its true. Your alts ability to generate game mechanics to your city, PA, and friends is a very powerful tool, and a tool that gives them many more advantages than if you did not have such an alt. available for their use. It gives you power. It gives your city power. It gives your PA power to know that they do not need to attact a live buffer. And I am not saying that it is unreasonable for cities, PAs, and characters who wantto ensure a tactical or economic advantage to create buffbots. In fact, I understand the advantages all too well.
Because buffbots are POWERFUL entities. I never denied it, and I have never denied that guilds and cities that want to be powerful shy away from them. Your very explination of why you run your alt makes this crystal clear.
But understand this as well, the more a galaxy becomes dependent on buffbots, the more powerful and vital buffbots become. And the more buffbots will not only be programmed todispensemechanicsfor the sake of maintaining these advantages for a player, guild, or city, but also to selectively deny players, guilds, and cities for the selfsame goals.
And the very same natural advantages that buffbots bestow are the very reasons why their influence cannot be easily counteracted. Because what will you do if a Rebel PA decides to create a buffhouse just outside your city limits for the expressed purpose of faction farming? What will you do if your guild decides to raid a Rebel base, but discovers that the buffbots that would normally heal their BF in Dantooine Mining Outpost, Nym's Stronghold, or Coronet have you and your guild on a programmed /deny list? The scary thing about buffbots too is that you never really know who owns them. Could the neutral buffer you get service from in Theed be owned by the Rebel who just exploited one of your bases? What will you do if the buffbots on various worlds all the sudden are no longer available to even heal your guild's BF? Then you will have the same situation you tried to avoid in the first place, where all your guild members will have to make the trip back to your city to get that which is so vital for play.
Because a plea to a buffbot to be considerate will go on deaf ears. A bribe to a buffbot will not sway it. A threat to a buffbot will never be acted upon. Because buffbots are not players, and the things that affect players will have no impact on it. Buffbots are ornaments designed to manipulate the environment for the benefit of another. And the very fact that they are not constrained by the same things players are make them insurmountable.
So if you want to enter into this brave new world, Stanis, it may please you to know you are fast approaching it. And I'm not saying this because its good or bad, right or wrong, but simply that it is happening, and it is something that you are going to have to find a way to deal with.
Esharra
Mon Jul 05, 2004 5:36 pm
#15
Taniss, I think I remember buffing you just a couple of days ago in Kraytia. Were you the fellow who was heading out to solo a dragon? If you don't remember me, you're likely to remember my insane blue dance partner, Til.I guess the one thing a buffbot can't do is explain the benefits of Ahrisa over Vagnerian Canape when you've just had a dancer buff your mind.
If you're thinking of starting a musician on Bria, be sure to come along for Cantina Crawl 7 next Saturday (look for the thread about the crawl in this forum). When I'm not spending my spare time on Chilastra, I'm usually on Bria as Esharra too.
Message Edited by Esharra on 07-05-2004 07:37 PM
kirah_ashlin
Mon Jul 05, 2004 7:54 pm
#16
Roho and I were entertaining in Moenia this afternoon. There were two newmusican hopefuls whomwe were assisting. While the cantina was far from hopping, we did havea fewdozen players run through and many of them stopped when they realized we were live! Almost to a being they commented on how suprised and pleased they were to find live entertainers there. Some even tipped! 
It was a good start for the two ents and we were glad to have chosen just the right time to return to our old "home".
Ramona_Garcia
Tue Jul 06, 2004 4:24 am
#17
Unless SOE installs a code system like on redeeding a structure to prevent afk buffing we will have to deal with buffbots.
PoetDancer
Tue Jul 06, 2004 7:01 am
#18
If that's the case, dear, how come I made 30k in Theed's cantina when nobody was /watching me? Why? Because just because a person doesn't /watch me doesn't mean they do not watch me. I think you understand this already, but if that's the case, buffbots who make absolutely no effort to be amusing should irk your ire even more. But indeed, I do speculate here as to what life may be like with buffbots bearing a lot of the service load on the servers. Don't like what you read? The surest way I know to stop it from happening is to support entertainers that are good at entertaining. Tell your guilds to support entertainers that are good at entertaining. Because they are leaving by the droves, and buffbots do not require such motivations to stay. And when we are gone, all you'll have are the buffbots, and I can tell you that you'll still have the same problems you have now, if not new and different ones.
hothype wrote:
Mabey people dont like catina's that your in because your not doing what the proffession is set up to do, actually entertain.
CatFleaX
Tue Jul 06, 2004 7:43 am
#19
On europe-Infinty, I am a so-called "buffbot" and I run a macro to buff Mind and then Focus and Willpower. At the end of buffing a certain stat is say "Tip what you think is fair" I have no set prices but and I get tipped anything between nothing and 25k credits for just 1 set of buffs and most of the time Im not there!Still, I have made over 2million credits in the past 3 weeks or so. When I am at my keyboard (like right now, I am buffing someone while typing - he doesn't know I am here, yet) I usually interact with my customers and I have earned alot of people's respect.
From what I have seen, SAS is quite a big Rebel guild and I tested my macro's (when I was making them, just to see if they would work) on someonein that guild, I also talk to alot of their guild members and now I am pretty much SAS's mind buffer because I have earned their respect because I offer them a service - along with other people. I also get asked to be buffed when Im not even in the cantina, if people cant find me, even if there is other dancers/musicians in the cantina at the time because I offer such a good service
If people as you described, which I dont think there is many of - the people who dont like Buffbots, they can just /addignore us and then find a so-called "real" entertainer to buff them.
Also, people know who my "buffbot" belongs to, it is called Cat' Flea, my other char (doc/tk) is called Cat- Flea. Another thing, my "buffbot" is on my main account! I dont pay for a second account, I just asked my friend if i could use his account to make an extra char so then I can go out and fight some things when I want to so I dont think i really fit into your stero-typed catagory of a buffbot, and I really dont see the point in you of needing to post your long post about "buffbots might /deny you....blah blah blah...." because this post was brought about because there was alot of buffbots, if one of them /denys you, go to another and there you have it - buffs.
And this quote:
that these mechanics do not in and of themselves entail wealth, respect, and admiration. In fact, they will discover quite the opposite is true. That any attempt to justify why one should get wealth, admiration, and respect for merely skill animating will make one HATED.
Is really, really wrong...
I dont usually flame posts, but this one was just too easy to flame as it is pointless
kirah_ashlin
Tue Jul 06, 2004 10:07 am
#21
Cat, let's say your pc crashes and you are offline for several days, or you go on vacation for a week or so. During that time your patrons will have found other means to get their buffs and many of them won't return when you do (unless you are in their city cantina).You are a convenience to them. When you speak to them you are a LIVE entertainer. When you are AFK you are simply a prop they can use as they see fit.
BTW, I have to wonder if your customers would be pleased to know that you are sometimes pretending to be AFK when you are actually there and watching them. . . I've got to admit I have mixed feelings about that, myself. I AFKed a few times just after I made master dancer in our player cantina on Dant. We felt, at the time, that it was a service to our fellow citizens. One night I couldn't sleep and got up to play the game for a bit. When I clicked on my screen there was a resident of the town standing at the base of the stage right in front of me -staring at me. No BF, no mind wounds, nothing. He just stood there. And he wasn't AFK either because after a couple of minutes he sat down on the floor. It creeped meout enough, personally,that my ingame husband told me not to AFK anymore. None of us did after that, if I remember correctly. I don't know if it matters to you or notwhat other players can "pretend" to do with your character when you aren't there to monitor them. And that in and of itself is not meant to be an arguement against AFK entertaining - just something to think about.
Message Edited by kirah_ashlin on 07-06-2004 01:19 PM
Message Edited by kirah_ashlin on 07-06-2004 02:56 PM
Vorpaks
Tue Jul 06, 2004 10:57 am
#22
CatFleaX wrote:I dont usually flame posts, but this one was just too easy to flame as it is pointless
This is not a pointless post. This is Entertainers telling you how the game is going down-hill from their unique perspective. Imagine if it were posible to run missions while afk. Craft uber weapons while afk. You know there would be tons pf people doing that because they want they money, they want the weapons, they want, they want, they want. The game would become homologous and uninteresting. The only way to get ahead or compete would be to do the same thing everyone else is doing. Exploit game mechanics. This is how the Entertainer profession is right now.
Really the only thing that matters is to know that the majority of Entertainers find their profession un-enjoyable or even un-playable because of buff-bots. There is no excuse for ruining another person's gaming experience like this except maybe
1. Ignorance.
2. Nastiness.
Entertainers are letting you know that using and creating buff-bots that continuously spam cantinas hurts them. Now that you know, you can stop. You can come up as many excuses as you want for why you continue to use or support afk-macroing but they really are just excuses. You are making the game un-enjoyable for several professions. They have told you that you are doing so. You are no longer unknowing. Now everytime you use or create a bot you do so knowingly. Knowing that you are purposely making someone else unhappy. You can try to excuse away your behavior, but making excuses doesn't make people less unhappy.
I remember when I was in high-school and the whole politically correct naming thing started. We had a big discussion in my class about Native-Americans wanting to be called Native-Americans and not Indians. Some people had the opinion that Native-Americans should just shut-up and stop whining. Indians are Indians and why should WE call them something different just becuase they decided they didn't like it? Well, because they didn't like it. There was no excuse to continue calling them Indians after they told us they didn't like it. It is the same with any derogatory term or racial slur. The only reason left after ignorance is enlightened is pure nastiness.
You know that Entertainers find their profession unenjoyable because of buff-bots. There are no ifs ands or buts about it. So do your fellow players a favor and park your buffer in a corner and /dump while you are afk in a public (NPC) cantina. Give other people a chance to play.
hothype
Tue Jul 06, 2004 12:45 pm
#23
Terrible post. Assumes way to much for any of it to actually come into play. Buff bot people comeing togther to set up a monopoly? thats a joke. Even if they did, and they start banning people that only helps you all more.
And what is this? They start banning you for doing raids? Thats nothing new. I get banned for participating in base take down against other cities.
Also why do you think people hate catinas? Its my opinion that people actually like catina's, but not med centers. Mabey people dont like catina's that your in because your not doing what the proffession is set up to do, actually entertain.
hothype
Tue Jul 06, 2004 3:28 pm
#24
Ive been an entertainer a few times and buff bots are not what make the proffession unenjoyable. What makes the proffession unenjoyable is the repeditive nature of it. The only place you can heal is inside a catina (or catina equivelent), the dances are only a few seconds long and then repeat themselves, the songs are only a few seconds long and then repeat themselves.
What the devs should of done in the first place is to give each catina its own atmosphere, not just cut and paste one planets catina to the others. They should of given us a way to create new dances and share them. They also should of created a way for musicians to actually play the instruement. Not just play the same recording over and over again. We could create new songs, or play our favorites. Then instead of the devs wasting time by adding new songs they could just add new instruements and sounds. Devs could also expand upon dancers by adding new positions, or give more freedom to how they can move.
CatFleaX
Tue Jul 06, 2004 5:29 pm
#25
Kirah, I dont mind if I loose customers as I get more and more new ones every day. Im too am not a dedicated buff bot, I go out and kill some things to get rifle xp every once in a while and I turn off computer of a night time. I dont just sit there staring at characters thinking of what I can pretend to do with them because that is just sick. For 1, i am a male ent and 2, I have a girlfriend so Idont even want tothink about what i can pretend to do to fake computer game characters and whoever would do that have no life.
And I agree with hothype on his post that it aint the buff bots which make the ent profs boring, and even if they did. Can you tell me how? If its because we steal your customers, its up to the customer who they want to be healed by or buffed by. If its because we are stealing your xp, i personally run 5 macros. 1 to advertise, 1 for information about the buff (how long i am going to dance/play for and saying when to /start or /stop Listen/Watch), 1 is an auto disband macro, 1 is the flourishes, the last one is giving information. On of the things i say in the one which gives information is "Please use the other entertainers to get healed as i dont need the xp". So again, its up to the customer/healee who (s)he wants to be healed by.
As I said in my first post, i offer a service to people who want it, if they dont like it then they can /addIgnore me and forget about me, if they want me to buff them, they can get buffs.
Vorpaks said:
So do your fellow players a favor and park your buffer in a corner and /dump while you are afk in a public (NPC) cantina. Give other people a chance to play.
Im not taking away their chance to play, it is really all up the to person(s) getting healed as to who they want to /watch or /listen to. "Buffbots" aren't taking anything away from "LIVE" entertainers, its just that the people getting healed go to the bots instead of the live people, it is all their choice, not ours.
Hothype, it would take alot of programming, testing, etc to get them music and dancing things you were saying about, and the only thing which the songs could be set as is like Macro's, so you wont be able to literally teach them to people, you could just give them a certain coding via Gmail or something.
Dreamland
Tue Jul 06, 2004 11:17 pm
#26
Yes
Im not taking away their chance to play, it is really all up the to person(s) getting healed as to who they want to /watch or /listen to. "Buffbots" aren't taking anything away from "LIVE" entertainers, its just that the people getting healed go to the bots instead of the live people, it is all their choice, not ours.
Hothype, it would take alot of programming, testing, etc to get them music and dancing things you were saying about, and the only thing which the songs could be set as is like Macro's, so you wont be able to literally teach them to people, you could just give them a certain coding via Gmail or something.