Dancer Archive
Thread: Not concerned over BF changes in CU?
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Serae
Thu Apr 21, 2005 9:03 am
#1
If your still under the notion that our skill point cost for the healing linesis fine as it is, below are a few quotes taken from the Teras Kasi boards
To put them in some kind of context, the quotes are taken from a thread asking that meditate should be allowed to heal battle fatigue.
SpinningCloud wrote:
I don't see the NEED for meditation with the CU.
I collected all of 3 BF and 3 wounds in about 4 hours of fighting. Why in the world do I need meditation for THAT? I think I could play a few months before I needed to heal anything.
Marsirion wrote:
Uhm... guys, all you have to do is sit in a cantina and BF goes away like wounds in a medical center. Last night I went to Theed to see if an entertainer would take care of my business but there was none. In the time it took me to scratch my head and fiddle around with my clothes all of my whopping 13 BF was gone.
So I guess you don't even need entertainers now...
EHayt wrote:
Meditation healing BF makes WAY more sense than meditation healing wounds. It's that damnable logic thingy...
Entertainers are already "useless" to those professions that don't see combat, as well as those who have Jedi friends, or those who take 30 seconds to swing by their local triple Master buffbot, or... you get the picture
Entertainers are already "useless" to those professions that don't see combat, as well as those who have Jedi friends, or those who take 30 seconds to swing by their local triple Master buffbot, or... you get the picture
And i should add that he also wrote this:
(Then there's the other type: the entertainers who actually strive to entertain. They chat, they joke, they make a stop at the cantina a pleasant experience by their presence. These ents are a world apart from the "tip me, I'm AFK" spammers, and no change in game mechanics will ever dilute their value (with the possible exception of Stormtroopers marching in and beginning their tired old routine about how Rebels suck and everybody is drunk and dressed wrong... damn Stormies and their strange womp rat fetishes!). This isn't about entertainers - they will always have their place - but about TKAs)
Im presuming that everyone who cares enough to post on the dancer forum is the 'other' type of entertainer that EHayt writes about, so do we really want to spend all those extra, wasted points in useless healing lines?
Landlubber
Thu Apr 21, 2005 9:36 am
#2
Well, absolutely no offense meant, but you're kinda preaching to the choir here 
But thank you for those quotes, they were very illuminating- I at least wasn't aware that BF accumulates THAT slowly or auto-heals THAT quickly in a cantina. And I also didn't know you could meditate it away in the CU, but I guess that figures...
But thank you for those quotes, they were very illuminating- I at least wasn't aware that BF accumulates THAT slowly or auto-heals THAT quickly in a cantina. And I also didn't know you could meditate it away in the CU, but I guess that figures...
Serae
Thu Apr 21, 2005 10:04 am
#3
No offence taken,
but from Esharra's poll on skill point reduction i hardly think everyones converted to the idea.
17 vs 25 hardly constitutes the entire choir imho.
And no you cant meditate it away yet but thats what the thread was discussing - the possibility
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Esharra wrote:
With 53 participants, 54 votes were cast (KirahFaye Ashlin-Triadeb voted for both 1 & 2 and she wants cake with her ice cream, tyvm). The tallied results include abstentions (rounded to nearest hundred percentage).
17 voted for 1. I would like for our Skill Point requirement to stay the same. 31.48%
25 voted for 2. I would like for the Skill Point requirement to be reduced. 46.30%
25 voted for 2. I would like for the Skill Point requirement to be reduced. 46.30%
7 voted for 3. I would like for the Skill Point requirement to be eliminated. 12.95%
Five players posted in the thread but did not vote and were counted as abstentions. 9.26%
The majority vote was for 2. I would like for the Skill Point requirement to be reduced.
Message Edited by Serae on 04-21-2005 10:04 AM
Warryyr
Thu Apr 21, 2005 10:05 am
#4
So how the hell do Entertainer get healing xp?
That's a serious problem.
AnakinSWG
Thu Apr 21, 2005 10:16 am
#5
Warryyr wrote:
So how the hell do Entertainer get healing xp?
That's a serious problem.
I don't know, but I'd continue to ask the devs to address it in some way. They may be planning to, or they may be planning on planning to. I'm going to start asking them about xp income in the Bug Threads now.
Doriana
Thu Apr 21, 2005 10:23 am
#6
Well, you get EH from giving inspirations -including self inspirations-... but you DON'T share inspiration gained exp with a group from what I've been told, so you only get EH from having people watch YOU specifically..
I am a bit ambivolent on the skill point issue. I could take a reduction to equal a master elite combat SP investement (I would LOVE to be able to have master ent/master dance/master music/novice carbine instead of needing to drop master ent to get novice carbines now). I could also deal with giving those trees another "job" to make them not wasted SP. But yeah, I really can't deal with staying in the middle for very long. /shrug
I am a bit ambivolent on the skill point issue. I could take a reduction to equal a master elite combat SP investement (I would LOVE to be able to have master ent/master dance/master music/novice carbine instead of needing to drop master ent to get novice carbines now). I could also deal with giving those trees another "job" to make them not wasted SP. But yeah, I really can't deal with staying in the middle for very long. /shrug
LyteFoot
Thu Apr 21, 2005 1:04 pm
#7
Warryyr wrote:So how the hell do Entertainer get healing xp?That's a serious problem.
I'm beginning to think you aren't and that is their whole point. Make it impossible to level entertainer and we will disappear by attrition.
Doriana
Thu Apr 21, 2005 1:37 pm
#8
LyteFoot wrote:
Warryyr wrote:So how the hell do Entertainer get healing xp?That's a serious problem.
I'm beginning to think you aren't and that is their whole point. Make it impossible to level entertainer and we will disappear by attrition.
I think in a way, you're right....
But I dont see this as all bad.
We all know that the way the current system is it encourages AFK and it encourages the "sometimes" live to group up and passively help the AFKers level becaue it gives them a boost as well.
But is the new system going to do that? I think one very possible outcome and motivation for it is to lessen the "okayness" of AFK. AFKers in ent groups are no longer going to be "valuable" to the live people because there will be no EH shared. The EH is going to go to whoever goes out and asks for it by being more entertaining. In other words, this system has a VERY good chance of discouraging people from AFKing simply because they won't get exp, and if the ent groups don't feel a "need" to group the AFKers, even the sometimes-live people will start to go back to resenting the people who AFK the easy way out.
But they gotta get that elite ATK only buffing system in relatively soon of course...
Someone said on guild forums something like "if they're making the SWG engine more like EQ2 they'll be able to catch 3rd party software more reliably," as well, which I thought was a good and interesting point...
So I still see a lot to be bitter about in the immediate future, but.. I still see a lot of hope. More hope than I've seen in a long, long time...
Panthu
Thu Apr 21, 2005 1:48 pm
#9
Battle fatigue is all that was in our original concept. *shrug* Mind wound healing and buffing was an add on. Then they messed up the whole HAM/Healing/Combat balance thingy when they took blue stimming away from Medics, so first Swords and Rifles, then CMs totally threw PvP out of whack.
PvP was not a major concern, so it got pushed off, and pushed off, and pushed off... but we knew the fix was coming and we knew our heightened importance would go away when the fix came.
Now we are just back at square one. Stuff got added to us and changed for us before though. We have dev posts saying it will be done again and they are telling our corrs the same thing. I see no reason not to believe it.
It's not like it would be hard to just pull the Ent profs from the game and stick some NPCs in the cantinas to dance and play music for immersion. They could even do the buffing and healing. When that happens, then I think we can say the Devs don't want people playing Ents. Till then, I'm pretty sure they do.
AlanjaAngeli
Thu Apr 21, 2005 2:22 pm
#10
SpinningCloud wrote:
And do NOT tell me to be patient...I am also Smuggler and you ran me out of patience LONG ago.
9/18/03 was a sad day for Smugglers.
Smuggler and you have a dancer...masochist.
The lack of healing experience is rather disheartening. Out of the eight times I've done dancer, entertainment healing experience was the hardest to get seven of those times...they don't need to make it any harder.
Cindal
Thu Apr 21, 2005 4:44 pm
#11
I was working up Ent/Dancer on TC-Ep3 before the frogs started handing out skills. I received tons of healing xp from BF.
Today, on TC-Ep3, I had tons of BF to heal - partly because there are very few entertainers there and partly because Coro Cantina was bugged - not allowing anyone to watch/listen and everyone there who tried received the message "You are too far away...". I was able to heal my own BF and give myself an inspiration buff but no matter what we tried no one else was able to get healed. We moved to Theed cantina and everything worked fine. This was /bugged in game.
Currently there is no BE enhanced food on TC-Ep3 so I do not know how that will effect our performance post-CU but on TC-Ep3 right now the current doctor buffs do not prevent us from using up our Action. I can do an inspiration buff in 1.20 but my action runs out at about the same time - I receive the 180 minute message and then have to stop flos, the max inspiration buff message comes a few minutes later but 180 is the max.
Players are extremely pleased to find an entertainer on TC-Ep3 - they have BF that needs to be healed and most everyone I talked to today had from 700 to 1k in BF. AND, they are actually friendly and chatty.
If you go to TC-Ep3 be prepared for the buggy chat bubbles. They constantly move and can make you feel motion sick. I have found that if you click on the person you are talking to (or the spamming stormie) the chat bubble is almost motionless. Unfortunately you can only be clicked on to one person at a time.
Esharra
Thu Apr 21, 2005 4:53 pm
#12
Please note: number of flourishes performed does not effect the duration of an inspiration buff nor does it effect the time you have to perform for the buff to reach full duration. You don't even have to flourish at all to providea full duration inspirationbuff.
DanceRulez
Thu Apr 21, 2005 5:54 pm
#13
SpinningCloud wrote:I am quite concerned that our Dancer profession is now mostly useless.I quite HATE having so much of our tree wasted skill points.
I think there are a few misconceptions out there about some of the upcoming CU changes, and while I don't want to diminish any of the concerns out there, I do want to point out that generalizations like the these are not correct.
Entertainers are not "useless" in the CU. We are still the only BF healers, and ground and space deaths seem to still yield 100 BF a pop as well as BF earned in battle and people will want to get that healed. It does sound like they may have tweaked the cantina auto-heal rate, though, so maybe that should be checked into. We will also be the only source of Inspiration buffs, and people will be wanting these for FP farming, combat XP grinding, and maybe crafting (I haven't been able to tell if the crafting benefit is really worthwhile yet - I just know it doesn't seem to do anything useful for Tailors). Neither of these, of course, will do anything to diminish the usefulness of AFK'ing, and it still leaves us with limited uses to justify the skill point expenditure, but the point was only to refute the argument that we will be useless. It does sound like there may be more functions planned for us in the (hopefully not-too-distant) future, but we will have to wait and see how these play out.
The other very common misconception in here is that some parts of our skill tree are wasted. Again, that's really not true either. We know what the Dance/Music Knowledge and Dance/Music Technique lines give us, the Dance/Music Fatigue Healing lines give us faster BF healing, and the Dance/Music Wound Healing as well as the Entertainer Healing lines give us wound healing skill which speeds the rate at which we give Inspiration buffs. The only skill we get that is currently not used is the Dance/Music Mind enhancement skill, but that always comes with something else in the same skill box anyway and may be addressed the next time we get some dev attention. Again, this still doesn't give any real incentive for advancing up the wound healing trees, but it is not the same as there being *no* benefit to these trees.
I just want to try to make sure that people are making the right arguments about what is wrong and what actually needs to be fixed, and not just incorrect assumptions or generalizations that might be easily dismissed and cause other more important points to be diluted or missed.
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