Dancer Archive
Thread: Panthu's Plan for World Peace: Poll (kind of)
If Holo ever came up to me and said “Panthu, we have tons of time and money to spend on an Entertainer Revamp that will create a safe and fun gameplay option for everyone. What is your recommendation?”
I would say, “Well Holo, I’ve given that a lot of thought. I think the pure performers need a safe place others can’t ruin the fun, I think combat players who don’t want to role play should have a different option for getting healed so they won’t get mean and nasty about the performers and make Buff-bots to skip us entirely, and I think the people who want a bard-like class should get that too with out being able to hurt the true performers. Here’s my solution:”
You have to look at Artisan to imagine how this would work, but basically we would have 4 branches:
Agent – Designer - Troop Morale - Venue Performer
Agents – Would be event coordinators, party planners, and Band and Troupe makers. They would have tools and skill lines such as: Promotions, Talent Scouting, Bookings, and Contracts.
Designer - Set Design, Wardrobe, Spa Products, and Make Up. This would be the tree that Image Designers would go up. In addition to ID, we would have new skill sets for crafting. Crafted items would be Spa Products, Performer only Wardrobe and Costumes, Performer only Props, and Set and Stage Props.
Troop Morale – This would be a “bard like” class. They would do active Ent Healing in the field. It would need to come in the form of Area Heals or Short and Long HOTs. They could also have charms, mezzes, speed buffs, damage increasers, snares… any of those normal game things for Buffing Support Classes, but they would all have a short “dance” or “song” as their means of application. – (please remember, “Performing for the Troops” is a real life thing… you could say that real life Movie Stars, Comedians, and Pop Stars have no business being helicoptered in to dangerous war zones, but the troops sure do seem to like it. 
)
Venue Performer – This would be the class that our current Dancer and Musician skills would build off of. It would still be everything we are now, but with an ATK requirement and the clear distinction of being a Cantina or Events Performing class. The Designers’ crafts certifications would come here and we could have all of the great fun new toys with out having to craft them ourselves.
ID could remain a separate class or become a line in the Designer Tree. Dancer and Musician could remain separate classes or become lines in the Performer tree. I personally would only be doing ID and Dance either way, because I don’t enjoy playing music and crafting (but I wouldn’t really mind that much if I had to train up those skills for a Master title… I used hardly any of my crafting abilities as a BE, but I didn’t mind that I had the skills 
).
I would most likely be in constant flux between the Field Performer and Agent classes, because both appeal to me some depending on my mood.
I really think this would serve us better as a Social design and wouldn’t have players in the same class snubbing each other or feeling like they were being forced to do something they didn’t want to (or stealing their game *cough*). How would this affect your gameplay? Don’t say what others wouldn’t like about it or what you don’t feel like others should be allowed to do, but tell me if this would disturb your own personal gameplay any. I know it wouldn’t mine.
I’m guessing if the resources ever were available for something like this, it would be in about six months, after the Space Expansion and Combat Revamps had a chance to be all live and running well. Then maybe Holo or Blair will get really bored and decide that they need a new huge project to tackle…. and they’ll say “hey, let’s ask the Dancer Correspondent what she thinks Dancers would like for a revamp!”… in that dream scenario, could I tell them we’d like this? 
>in that dream scenario, could I tell them we’d like this?
Yes. I'd probably have a million small things, but in general, it sounds good. I don't think we need bards though. Players that would like to help groups in combat should really be combat medics assuming the DEVs ever make combat medics medics that can operate under combat conditions instead of WWI gas troopers or WWII SS guards. A combat medic should be able to patch up his comrades under fire. No need to dance. While in magic-land an orc may be dazzled by abilities, I think it just doesn't fit SciFi/StarWars to have a dancer throwing a smoke bomb have any real effect on a commando with a flamer.
My personal bets are on world peace anyway .
nvoigt wrote:
to have a dancer throwing a smoke bomb have any real effect on a commando with a flamer.
Smoke has always been an extremely useful and valid combat tactic. Go watch a war movie, any war movie that involves ground troops, and you will see smoke grenades employed. How would this work in game? Just have the smoke place the "blind" effect on opponents.
How would this affect your gameplay? Don’t say what others wouldn’t like about it or what you don’t feel like others should be allowed to do, but tell me if this would disturb your own personal gameplay any. I know it wouldn’t mine.
)I'm for anything that adds more diversity and fun to the game, but I see the Agent as being more RP than in game skills... but of course, you're imagination is quite wild Panthu, this I know.. I'd certainly like to see you expand on the idea, even though my musician alt is just a buff boy healer
I don't feel that there is nearly enough information presented to make an educated decision about whether these ideas could work or not. But I suspect they would not work well.
The different lines make sense enough from a purely roleplaying perspective. However, without knowing what any of these lines and professions actually do with game mechanics (that which finds a useful or needed role in the system balance), it is not possible to determine if these things are sustainable in game play. If I try to make assumptions about what the lines would do, based on my previous experience as a professional game designer, I see nothing but trouble coming from this plan.
To really determine what might come of these proposedchanges, the game mechanics involved would have to be written out for each of the lines. We would then have to attempt to determine if each of those lines played a unique and vital role in the interdependancy of professions across the entire game. If any of them are left out of the system, and thus the economy, the proposal creates many more problems than it solves.
For example, in the Agent line, there is nothing listed that I see that a player can't do without spending a single skill point.Anyone can choose toorganize events, plan parties, create bands and troupes, and negotiate prices and contracts with other players without even having novice entertainer. These are all simply things we do when interacting with each other - there are no game mechanics involved in negotiating with other players, or gathering players into groups or events. I see no game abilities that the system could grant in aiding simple player interaction.
Additionally, I suspect that if the Venue Performer role was still mechanicallybased on healing and buffs, as the entertainer classes are now, that the Troop Morale line would make that entire professional line obsolete. If every guild and hunting groupwas now mandating a Troop Morale performer to come along to spare having to leave the field for BF and mind wound healing (which of course they would be),very few peoplewould return to cantinas. The reason that I see for entertainers to have healing abilities at all is to provide a draw to the cantinas, so that theycan serve as hubs of player activity - as well as to provide those players with a viable place in the player-driven economy.If you have Venue Performers who have as their only system dependancy healing and buffs... well, no one has to go to cantinas anymore, so they're now completely out of the loop, and you've effectively killed the ability to play a stageperformer as a wage-earning profession.
And I'm sorry, but the Troop Morale line really just seems like pandering to the combat-oriented players. As has been mentioned in earlier posts, there really is no precedent for battlefield dancers who have combat dazzle and poofy smoke bombs in Star Wars, nor really in any real-world examples that I can think of. Perhaps the Combat Medics should be doing the Combat Healing. I really think that this is just to grant what some of the players have been asking for, to heal and buff anywhere without restriction, and to turn cabaret dancers into combat-ready machines without a need to spend skill points in a real combat line. Do we need Architects to become operators of siege engines and demolitions? What about combat chefs who can blow pepper in the noses of the enemy and give them negative states of +sneeze+? I still say to leave the combat tothe combat professions - there is no need to homogenize every profession into a combat variant. I still feel that if dancers want to get out into battle, they have plenty of other skill points to master TK, pistols, rifles, almost anything combat-related that makes sense.
I think this is a good point - if you do not have the need to enter cantinas to heal BF, will there be enough of an audience to support venue performers? Will there be enough opportunities for new venue performers to make a living while advancing?I highly doubt it. They would probably end up being forced to buff and heal to earn a living, and therefore forced out of the cantinas on the fields.
Keep the cantina as hubs you need to visit, and keep at least the bare remnants of the social centers they once were alive. If you cater too much to combat players whining for even less downtime - so that they can hit their single special even faster, if they do not start a combat macro - you will drive out the mass of the performers, and end up with a lot of combat players who might have liked to watch a performance while healing, but will not make the effort to go to the theatre it is being held (or don't even know about it) and will go to the next field entertainer instead.
Smoke has always been an extremely useful and valid combat tactic. Go watch a war movie, any war movie that involves ground troops, and you will see smoke grenades employed. How would this work in game? Just have the smoke place the "blind" effect on opponents.
I strongly disagree with the cheerleader reference earlier and this one. Indeed, tactics based not only on pure firepower work quite well. But this is not the domain of entertainers. Those soldiers employing smoke grenades are trained in their tactical use in the field. Cheerleaders are there for show. They have no combat training at all. They should die in a heartbeat, too nervous to even find the pin on the grenade.
We have combat support professions. Tough fighters who have trained for this. Squad Leaders, Combat Medics etc. Those people should employ all those tactics. Raise moral, employ special weapons or tactics. We are entertainers. Cheerleaders if you want. No cheerleader is ever going to cheer on the sidelines if there is blaster fire, flamer clouds and the danger of instant death. For football games, it's nice. For something called a galactic civil war with one side eradicating planets, a cheerleader is way of.
We have professions for bard like abilities and it's not us. If you want to play that, go ahead. You can even play both ! But a fighting cheerleader is only working with magic. And as long as we don't want a force-sensitive combat entertainer, I don't see a realistic way to incorporate them into the StarWars Universe.
Honestly Panthu I think its wonderful that you took the time to come up with proposal but the folks you are hoping to bridge the gap between are not interested in hearing about either change or content additions.
Those of us who are don't even need this much... I know I'd just like a more interactive dance system and a mission system in line with the level of profitability and challenge of the combat mission system.
Some nice ideas in there Panthu.
As some have already pointed out I don't think the Troop Morale profession would work out too well, it's like a combination of some already existing professions and sounds like it would simply step on too many people's toes. Definitely sounds like a combination of a sort Squad Leader and a Combat Medic, also it might reduce the amount of BF left for the real Performers to heal(maybe?). It also just doesn't sound right and a dancer/musician performing in the middle of a heated battle would just look plain odd.
Agent could be an interesting profession though it would be one of the harder to create and balance of your ideas, it also might conflict with the Merchants slightly as both would have a similar role just one dealing with products, the other with people. As you left this a little vague I'll try and fill in some ideas. Promotions basically comes down to advertising, now this conflicts with the merchants but for starters how about posters. Each cantina, theatre and tavern could have one or more poster displays an Agent with Promotions skills could pay to have their poster displayed, simple set posters with a bit of custom text on the lower tier skills, higher up you could get to make composite posters. For example you might pick a pic of a Bothan playing a Fizz, a Bothan mid Poplock dancing, a fancy border, a fancy box to go around your text, text saying "The Bothan Street Boys here next Friday!!!", a waypoint option like the Merchant's Barker droid modules or maybe a contact name? Maybe add in a rotation system so several posters coloud be shown in one place, thats only one idea though. Talent Scouting would be a difficult one, I'm not really certain how that would work. Bookings sounds an easy one, gain xp for selling tickets to an event (would need some tough coding I imagine though, creating tickets, accepting tickets, ticket only entry to cantina's/theatre's etc.), for booking NPC cantina's (deposit, limited max entry price?). Contracts could be good for getting performers a "wage". They sign contracts with performers to work for them, the performer gets a *small* xp increase and a wage that increases with the more they dance and with more people watching/being healed. The Agent would get a small cut of that wage along with xp, higher up the skills means better wages, more contracted performers at once.
Venue Performer I don't see as much different to Dancers and Musicians currently, just with the other new professions able to help/promote/enhance/provide props etc.for their performances. Though of course healing xp could be tweaked some.
Designer is another fairly tough one, though it could certainly encompass the current ID abilities or have ID as it's elite profession. Wardrobe would be a problem as tailor's cover that area already and there's no need to splinter that profession. Set design is interesting, the ability to make (temporary wooden backdrops) displays for cantinas and theatresshowing different scenes, inside buildings, Theed Palace, deserts of Tatooine, forests of Endor etc. These would make shows quite a spectacle and really allow proper performances and storys to be acted out. Spa products, hmm as part of some temporary ID effects maybe but I think Props would be a more suitable name for the most part. Making ID an elite profession through the Makeup branch makes more sence to me than through Entertainer, though that would leave a branch gap in the Entertainer tree possibly make that a branch for the agent?
Overall I like the idea of expanding the social professions in the game, though if this was done it should be to allow more options rather than spliting, dividing or copyingany of the current professions. I'd hope they reduced the skill point requirements a little for the social professions if they did this to allow a greater diversity.
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Niza wrote:
Those of us who are don't even need this much... I know I'd just like a more interactive dance system and a mission system in line with the level of profitability and challenge of the combat mission system.
Darn, no world peace on this one. Oh well, we'll stick to those then!
Thanks for the feed back guys. (btw, I have high hopes for our new quests and maybe even a more interactive dance system)