Dancer Archive
Thread: Panthu's Plan for World Peace: Poll (kind of)
And I'm sorry, but the Troop Morale line really just seems like pandering to the combat-oriented players. As has been mentioned in earlier posts, there really is no precedent for battlefield dancers who have combat dazzle and poofy smoke bombs in Star Wars, nor really in any real-world examples that I can think of. Perhaps the Combat Medics should be doing the Combat Healing. I really think that this is just to grant what some of the players have been asking for, to heal and buff anywhere without restriction, and to turn cabaret dancers into combat-ready machines without a need to spend skill points in a real combat line. Do we need Architects to become operators of siege engines and demolitions? What about combat chefs who can blow pepper in the noses of the enemy and give them negative states of +sneeze+? I still say to leave the combat tothe combat professions - there is no need to homogenize every profession into a combat variant. I still feel that if dancers want to get out into battle, they have plenty of other skill points to master TK, pistols, rifles, almost anything combat-related that makes sense.
/applaud panthu
Fantastic ideas that really encompass all of the different styles of playing the entertainer professions, bravo! And voigt, A LOT of entertainers would love to have a bard class like what panthu described. How many sportsteams do you see without cheerleaders? This is an equivalent role that entertainers would like to have the opportunitity to fulfill. (and yes I know their aren't cheerleaders mentioned in starwars, it was an analogy before you try to shoot me down on my non-star wars reference).
I don't like it.
First, leave the bards to EQ - in SWG we have squad leaders forsupport in battles. Entertainers can support troops morally in camps - just like the entertainers that fly to our troops do. You did not see Bob Hope entertaining during a firefight and dodging bullets. Dancing bards would be the ultimate idiocy in star wars. You want to support the troops in the field? Spend some of those 140ish leftover skill points after mastering dancer or musician on another profession.
Agents we can already be - we do not really need game skills for that, since most promotion will be done over word of mouth and websites. Get merchant for an ad barking droid if you must.
Designers? Again, why not leave that to artisans? Those people have, apart from master artisan, not much to sell yet. And you can get novice artisan pretty cheap as an enteretainer.
Venue performers? How do you require ATK presence? I don't really see a way so far. And anyone can be a venue performer in game already.
nvoigt wrote:
Cheerleaders are there for show. They have no combat training at all. They should die in a heartbeat, too nervous to even find the pin on the grenade.
"None but a coward dares to boast that he has never known fear." Ferdinand Foch (1851 - 1929)
I'm not calling anyone a coward, just pointing out that everyone experiences fear. One of my favorite things, of which I have many screenshots, was chilling in the camp watching Panthu dance while we healed up from our last encounter.
-Khazad Pallaran, Master Armorsmith - Starsider, Dantooine
*hugs*
Almhevlasa wrote:
I'm not calling anyone a coward, just pointing out that everyone experiences fear. One of my favorite things, of which I have many screenshots, was chilling in the camp watching Panthu dance while we healed up from our last encounter.
This is my two cents on how Panthu's ideas would effect my gameplay:
Agents – Would be event coordinators, party planners, and Band and Troupe makers. They would have tools and skill lines such as: Promotions, Talent Scouting, Bookings, and Contracts.
These are all role-play aspects and don't have enough content to support a skill tree. I wouldn't waste skill points on these skills as I am able to do all this through tools that Sony has already provided. I also would not pay another player for these services.
Designer - Set Design, Wardrobe, Spa Products, and Make Up. This would be the tree that Image Designers would go up. In addition to ID, we would have new skill sets for crafting. Crafted items would be Spa Products, Performer only Wardrobe and Costumes, Performer only Props, and Set and Stage Props.
This oversteps too many different classes and the classes (IDs, Tailors, Chefs, Architects) would loose a significant portion of their client base. As an entertainer, I don't want to craft and if I had to craft for this profession, I would leave the profession. I like the fact that my dancer is carefree and doesn't have to worry about all the, for lack of better language, crap that goes with crafting.
Again, oversteps boundaries into other classes. Additionally, SWG Devs have made it very clear that they have no intentions of adding a bard class to the game. I would not enjoy this type of gameplay. I enjoy having people come to me instead of having to follow hunting groups around. I would not enjoy having to compete with other more useful classes, for instance scouts, to get into big hunt groups. This, again, would cause me to leave the profession.
Troop Morale – This would be a “bard like” class. They would do active Ent Healing in the field. It would need to come in the form of Area Heals or Short and Long HOTs. They could also have charms, mezzes, speed buffs, damage increasers, snares… any of those normal game things for Buffing Support Classes, but they would all have a short “dance” or “song” as their means of application. – (please remember, “Performing for the Troops” is a real life thing… you could say that real life Movie Stars, Comedians, and Pop Stars have no business being helicoptered in to dangerous war zones, but the troops sure do seem to like it.
)
For those who argue that having performers on the field is something that has been a historically viable position, may I remind you that their purpose was not to distract or entrance mobs, but were used as a form of communication between the troops. Other uses of drums, etc. were used in association with superstitions between warring clans. I don't thinkany ofthis fits within the Star Wars mythology. If you are saying, that adding this line speciallization is going to "change" the profession, sorry. I can already do this. Don't need a special skill tree to force this gaming play style on other players.
Venue Performer – This would be the class that our current Dancer and Musician skills would build off of. It would still be everything we are now, but with an ATK requirement and the clear distinction of being a Cantina or Events Performing class. The Designers’ crafts certifications would come here and we could have all of the great fun new toys with out having to craft them ourselves.
Since this is most close to my gameplay style, one could argue that this would not effect my gameplay. BUT, becuase you have sloughed off another sections of my gameplayenjoyment, causing player discrimination against meas they would prefer to havesomeone "concentrated" in those other areas, it would lessen my enjoyment of the profession and, most likely would cause me to leave the profession.
NOW, what I really want to say about these ideas is that I think fractionating the class in this manner is a VERY BAD THING. I don't think this class is broke to the extent that it is unplayable or a non-viable profession within the game that Sony has made. I think we should be concentrating our efforts on how to ENHANCE our profession instead of CHANGING it into something that is only going to cause more shcizms within the entertainer professions and cause additional discord with non-entertainer professions who are all trying to define their niches as well.
Zee
Ok, I think you guys have missed my point. 
I don't feel the need to really argue any of these matters, because frankly it's not my battle. I like us how we are, but I am open to anything that should come. I just like the dancing.
Super short corrections:
On the RP aspect of “Agent” - Yes, I know people are already pretending to do these things. In the dream scenario, there would actually be enough time, money, and interest to enhance that with real game systems.
Like Agents could form Static Bands or Troupes that would work like a mini PA with their own Static Chat Channel and maybe even a flashy tag or bio spot. They could have a Band treasury that could be set to pay a salary out on a schedule. They could have a gig message board system and real written contracts that could be sold to other Agents. They could design promo poster and make huge signs for billings. They could give an XP modifier in their talent scout line. They could have some way to advertise like the bazaar system but unique to Entertainment. Or they could have a role in the often mentioned "fame" system.
There have been millions of ideas floating around about this forever and the only reason it ever gets shot down is because the performers don't want to do it.
On the Troop Morale field option - Yes, I freely admit this is not very easy to find in the Star Wars Universe. It is just a somewhat common RPG gaming mechanic that many players (and yes I mean Dancers) are missing. I do feel like many people who are RPG gamers but not role players would handle something like this better, but my only desire here would be to have happier Dancers and Patrons.
What I am becoming increasingly more alarmed about is our long term health. It appears to be very hard to talk about or get any Dev attention for our Social classes because we are not a large system such as "combat" or "crafting"... I personally would not begrudge anyone else's fun if it meant including them in some controlled way as part of a larger system. Then perhaps we could really talk about an "Entertainment Economy" and "Entertainment Balance".
As a correspondent, I have to be open to all suggestions and try to keep us all safe from stomping on eachother. I was curious to know if this would be an acceptable way to do this, apparently it is not. Scroll up, I already replied to Niza about sticking to the current plan. It will be harder to get us fun things like new dances and props while we remain such a specialty class... and it will be hard to keep us safe from non-RP Combat Players' desires for faster more available Ent healing (*cough* buff bots *cough*)... but that's my mission so I guess I'll start working on "Panthu's Plan for World Peace: Draft 2"
Message Edited by PoetDancer on 05-01-2004 12:15 AM
I don't want to sound trite, but I really like to see what becomes of us once the hologrind is over. I think we agree that when it's over there will still be a lot of afk players who want to get to master faster, and there will still be buffbots. But, for one reason or another, I find consolation in the fact that all of these afk'ers after the hologrind will have one thing in common with the rest of us. That is, for one reason or another, whether it's to become master dancer, or to provide and a needed mechanic in the game, they are all dancing because they actually want to become a dancer and keep the profession. I think the greatest emphasis here, should be what can we lobby the devs for to make atk play the most desirable? Whether that means changing game mechanics somehow so that only atk players can perform buffs, or it means actually adding things to our profession that make atk play viable and desperately wanted, I don't know. But, I think that needs to be our biggest focus. I think Panthu's ideas in this thread are an attempt to encourage ATK play, so I've enjoyed this discussion so far, and I understand many points regarding splintering our profession and encroaching on other professions. Yet, the discussion is still viable as a means to an end, even if we don't all agree with the suggestions.
Some people have maintained that the end of the hologrind won't change anything, or at the very least is not going to end up being the holy grail that many of us expect it to be. I personally have high hopes that it will be, but I know there's the possibility that it won't be, so I try to stay grounded in that potential realization. But, I honestly think that ending the hologrind is going to do a world of good for our profession. It won't solve all of our problems, but I think it will solve more than 50% of them. As such, I'd almost consider offering the suggestion of suspending certain discussions until after it happens to see how things pan out, to see what effect it truly has on our profession. Will things go back to the good old days, or are things too far gone to correct? We won't really know until it happens.
That's not to say that I don't think we should be discussing possible content additions. That's always good for the long term. But, I think the end of the hologrind is worth waiting for.