Dancer Archive
Thread: Uncomfortable Question
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IrinaStarsinger
Wed Aug 25, 2004 4:46 am
#1
A friend and I were discussing the post-buffbot era last night and wondered about another reaction among members of the community.
We currently define a buffbot pretty much as someone who runs a looping macro AFK that spams, does a /join and then after a set time does a /disband. That seems to be pretty much the basic mechanism used with some extras thrown in by different ones.
Once the looping macros go away, there will be players who sit ATK and use the F1 key to spam their Buffing services, use the F2 key to do the /join and the F3 key to /disband. Basically a Manualy Triggered Buff.
Meanwhile they stay in Group chat or a Chat channel and chatter with their friends or sit and read a book or play a different game on their second computer or maybe run their Real account on the other computer. Essentially ATK buffbots.
On some occasionsI sit alone in the ID tent on slow daysin order to be available to do stats. When nothing is going on I occasioanlly wil use my other computer to log in my alt who is an Architect that supports our family by making the things we need and harvesting resources for us. I also play her about 50% of the timesince I'm working on TK with her. When I'm doing that I simply glance at the other screen frequently to see if anyone has come in and if so I stop and handle the customers. When all they want is stats and have friends with them with whom they are chatting, often I dont get involved in conversation with them and simply keep an eye on the timer while I'm doing maintenance on my harvestors. So I'm not Really engaged at that point.
We ARE going to see the same thing in the Entertainment community, those who I think Draygoclassified as Type 3 Entertainers, the ones who play the Profession primarily to provide buffing services and aren't really interested in the Social aspects of the profession.
I dont really have any opinion on them one way or the other so I'm neither supporting them or condemning them.
Im just curious how the attitude towards the AFK buffbots is going to affectattitude towards people who do play our profession Solely to provide buffing services without any social interaction.
My friend predicted that the reactions were going to be pretty strongly split on the issue with some supporting them completely and some condeming them just as strongly as buffbots are currently condemned.
What is the community opinion on these folks? How will you deal with them and/or respond to them?
Panthu
Wed Aug 25, 2004 5:18 am
#2
... his name is Drygo, not Draygo...
... and I really don't understand the need to talk about all of the various social aspects of Bots post-anything. Just be nice and fair with people, problem solved! No stress about rules and who thinks what. You can even start today, you don't even have to wait for the macro change!
Just nice and fair. *shrug* Try it. 
IrinaStarsinger
Wed Aug 25, 2004 5:35 am
#3
Make you a deal girl.... YOU start treating ME with the respect and NICENESS you seem to demand of me and we'll get along fine.
If the Rules in here are that YOU set the agenda for what we can talk about and discuss, fine. Then SAY, clearly and unambiguously so that Everyone understands that we need your approval and blessing to discuss thigns that interest us.
You've accused me on numerous occasions of being.. Condescending.. Read your own message ...said the kettle to the pot.
I have no problem with you. I've never called you names. I've never intentionally or even knowingly attacked you or made disparaging comments about you. Why then your seeming need to condemn me becasue MY interests and concerns are different form yours? Becasue my Priorities are different from yours?
Yes Im ascerbic at at times.. Debate is something raises people's passion. If they Dont raise passions then the issue is obviously not one of great importance to people. But I have never been as rude and outright abusive as some of the responses I've received to issues I've raised.
So... your call.
If this is YOUR forum then say so and I'll exit gracefully and leave you to it. But if its a DANCER'S forum... then hey, I've been a Dancer since day one as have others who agree with me.
kirah_ashlin
Wed Aug 25, 2004 5:47 am
#4
Sorry, Eucy - I'm as tired of all this "micro-debating" as Panthu is. So if you want ot flame off on me, too - go right ahead.
IrinaStarsinger
Wed Aug 25, 2004 5:51 am
#5
Kirah.. I just asked a question. One that I think is an issue we're going to have to deal with later on. And one that I think we should talk about BEFORE it becomes an issue... I Didn't flame anyone. I didnt criticize ANYONE.I asked aQUESTION.
Read Panthu's message to me and ask yourself.. Who's doing the flaming??
Panthu
Wed Aug 25, 2004 6:01 am
#7
IrinaStarsinger wrote:
Read Panthu's message to me and ask yourself.. Who's doing the flaming??
Huh? It wasn't to you alone, it was to everyone. *shrug* I've been urging people in this forum to be the best Dancers they could be since before you ever started posting under this name in here. I've always encouraged all posters in all threads to be nice and fair. I'm not sure why you would think this was a flame. /boggle
I just don't think we need to worry so much about defining other people's gameplay and spending anytime on creating guidelines and group consensus on how to deal with certain types of people. *shrug* If you are always worried about yourself and strive to be both nice and fair in all dealings with others, you'll usually be ok on your own.
That's all. No hidden meaning. 
IrinaStarsinger
Wed Aug 25, 2004 6:02 am
#8
Oklay Kirah.. I give...
If what people want to do is sit and pat each other on the back and tell each other how wonderful we are and what victims we are fine.
Personally I think there are issues other than buffbots that we, as a Community, should talk about and deal with. But if you Don't and Panthu doesnt, that's fine... I'll go back to Dancing and let you do your own thing.
Then when we confront the problems later on and everyone gets upset cause we Didn't want to talk about them and try to address them early on... then we can NOT talk about them then either.
See you in the cantina.
Vorpaks
Wed Aug 25, 2004 6:18 am
#9
Heh. I wrote up a long description of what buff bots really are before I realized - uhhhh... you guys already know all that. 
The people you are describing Euclase do not seem like buff bots they seem like they are bored. And that is a totally different issue. The ones who are not bored - the ones who just like to chat and really have no interest in the performance aspect - I agree with Panthu. Just treat them with respect, they will treat you with respect, and everyone will be happy. I personally would prefer that anyone who is dancing or buffing and not particularly interested in interacting with customers stand a bit to the side of cantina so the performers can show off in the center, but that is me as a customer who loves watching shows speaking.
The people you are describing Euclase do not seem like buff bots they seem like they are bored. And that is a totally different issue. The ones who are not bored - the ones who just like to chat and really have no interest in the performance aspect - I agree with Panthu. Just treat them with respect, they will treat you with respect, and everyone will be happy.
I personally would prefer that anyone who is dancing or buffing and not particularly interested in interacting with customers stand a bit to the side of cantina so the performers can show off in the center, but that is me as a customer who loves watching shows speaking.
kirah_ashlin
Wed Aug 25, 2004 6:53 am
#10
You know, Eucy, I'm just going to declare a birthday break from this forum for the day before I say something I will regret.
Tangleweb
Thu Aug 26, 2004 3:06 pm
#11
so what did you have in mind, euclase?
Rosaria Caroleema
Ahazi -Master Dancer- -Master Musician- -Master Entertainer-
Owner of the Caroleema Club in Diamond City, Corellia
Prima of Popstars: Dedicated to the art of Superior Entertainment
Diva: 10% talent, 90% attitude
DanceRulez
Thu Aug 26, 2004 5:18 pm
#12
Euclase, I brought up pretty much this same point in your previous thread on Redemption and Forgiveness. There I called such a player a "monitored bot," though I got no responses on that thread. I actually agree with you that I think there is merit in some discussion on this. I think that even if we do get rid of bots and AFK players, there will be remnants of them in this form. There may be a few characters who are on "a lot" without interacting, but spring to life on request to offer a buff. I think we may be as annoyed by these players as we are by the bots, but perhaps there will be fewer of them than the bots, and they won't be able to offer their services 23/7 both by virtue of the fact that they must be monitored. I guess how we'll deal with them depends on how common they actually are, and where they show up. If they confine themselves to cantinas in player cities, we may hardly notice them. If they stay in an alcove in some static cantina serving few customers we might not really care. If they park themselves in the entryway or center area of major cantinas taking space and getting a large number of customers who intentionally spurn the live entertainers, then it may become a big deal to us. Then again, maybe they will just siphon off the portion of the player community that really doesn't want to deal with us anyway and leave the more supportive or social players, in which case it might not be a bad thing. We may have to just wait and see.
Doriana
Thu Aug 26, 2004 5:40 pm
#13
I definitely agree with Shi'ann here that we'll just have to wait and see at this point. There is not much we can really do when we only have theories to work with. It may be very likely that the revenue from running a monitored bot that's only on 6 hours, 10 hours, whatever a day isn't enough to justify $15/mo real money.
I will never like it, regardless. I still think it will be a detriment to the profession. But can I, at this point in time, say that I would be morally comfortable opposing it as assiduously as I oppose AFKing? No.
As long as it is within game mechanics and the person is actually there, I think it will end up falling under the "you can't tell someone how to play their character" category. AFKing I feel completely justified in fighting because the devs have said it is against the rules and an unintended abuse of the system. "Monitored bots," well.. They're not AFK, if they are there. So unless there is another rule that they would be breaking that I can't think of or that gets added in with the new macro system.... I don't think I have the right to force my views of the profession on someone who is following the rules.
This will probably be the type of thing we'll have to fight simply by being more entertaining and more engaging so that it's easier to come to us instead of sending a /tell to the moni-bot and waiting for a response.
In other words I think many of the arguments pro-AFKers use to justify AFKing might actually be valid in this circumstance.
Either way it's down the road and we're still a ways off from when even AFK bots are gone, so we'll just have to see. Either way things are still moving forward.
I will never like it, regardless. I still think it will be a detriment to the profession. But can I, at this point in time, say that I would be morally comfortable opposing it as assiduously as I oppose AFKing? No.
As long as it is within game mechanics and the person is actually there, I think it will end up falling under the "you can't tell someone how to play their character" category. AFKing I feel completely justified in fighting because the devs have said it is against the rules and an unintended abuse of the system. "Monitored bots," well.. They're not AFK, if they are there. So unless there is another rule that they would be breaking that I can't think of or that gets added in with the new macro system.... I don't think I have the right to force my views of the profession on someone who is following the rules.
This will probably be the type of thing we'll have to fight simply by being more entertaining and more engaging so that it's easier to come to us instead of sending a /tell to the moni-bot and waiting for a response.
In other words I think many of the arguments pro-AFKers use to justify AFKing might actually be valid in this circumstance.
Either way it's down the road and we're still a ways off from when even AFK bots are gone, so we'll just have to see. Either way things are still moving forward.
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